OT-deflategate: Thought experiment--could the balls have been inflated at artificially hot temps?
Let's say, hypothetically, that your football team likes footballs to be a bit under inflated. Now, you know that the balls will be in public view as soon as the refs release custody of them, and you don't want some ball boy caught doctoring the footballs on NFL Films.
It is 45 degrees outside. The balls are delivered to the referees 2.5 hours before kickoff. They are inspected at that time and must record an air pressure of between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI. They are measured in a 70 F room.
You're at home. You have your own rooms with thermostats, and possibly customized air delivery equipment.
Is it possible to deliberately inflate the balls at an artificially high temperature to measure the correct pressure (say, 15 minutes after inflation in a 70 degree room), knowing that the pressure will decrease once they spend time outside? Note that the balls are kept indoors with the refs for over two hours. By halftime they were 2lbs light, which suggests 10-10.5 PSI. Would it hold enough heat to work? How hot are we talking?
January 21st, 2015 at 11:11 AM ^
The NFL testing has proven that the entire story is total bullshit. There is no way Bill Bellichick would deflate only 11 of 12 footballs. The man is way more obsessed than that.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:14 AM ^
He would benefit most from a deflated ball. I'M NOT saying Tom had anything to do with deflategate but there is almost 2 weeks for speculation.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:15 AM ^
I saw a couple of people do the math and, making a couple of presumptions about room temperature and initial pressure, it is absolutely possible that a properly-inflated ball could lose about as much pressure as these did over the course of a game. I'm sure that the Pats could have accounted for this pressure loss had they wanted to, but for everyone claiming this was some grand conspiracy that never happens anywhere else it sure feels like a lot of people just don't remember their Physics I class.
Again, I don't really care about this matter too much because, well, the Pats destroyed the Colts on both sides of the ball. Also, I have a hard time taking a league seriously that claimed it couldn't get videotape of a beating even though it was apparently provided numerous times, denied concussions as an issue until former players were shooting themselves in the chest and asking researchers to look at their brains, ignore blatant drug and performance-enhancing issues, turns a blind eye to a still-pervasive level of racism in the hiring and firing of all minorities, spousal abuse, child abuse, impaired driving, etc. But my gawd King, a ball is a little underinflated and it becomes A1 story for a week.
The Colts and Ravens couldn't beat the Patriots, but because NE was caught video-taping a couple of teams years ago everything they do is viewed through a prism of illegality when pure incompetence and the natural world provide much more appropriate explanations. it wasn't an underinflated ball that stopped Baltimore from blowing two 14-point leads, somehow being unable to stop covering ineligible receivers despite the referee announcing as much, and throwing a late INT on a ball they had no reason throwing. And those underinflated balls didn't cause Indy LBs to miss tackles, fail to convert on 3rd down, or stumble to 7 points in a game where the other team dropped 45 on you. I honestly don't like the Pats all that much, and really my rooting interests for them begin and end with Brady and former Patriot Ty Law. But this BS is insane to me, and the fact I'm going to have to read about it for the next week instead of getting psyched about Andy Dalton and Matthew Stafford playing in the Pro Bowl!
January 21st, 2015 at 11:41 AM ^
That is cause for concern.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:17 AM ^
"THERE WAS SHRINKAGE! THERE WAS SHRINKAGE!" - George Costanza, 1994
January 21st, 2015 at 11:23 AM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 11:24 AM ^
and their humidor
January 21st, 2015 at 11:24 AM ^
Part of the Inflation/Deflation of the game ball, but how could they determine if this was the case using hot air to inflate the ball at which rate and how much the ball would deflate during the game? Is there anyway to know the exact science under the weather conditions as to how much deflation the game balls would eventually end up with?
I would also be just as curious to know if the balls of he Colts were checked? Several QB's have said that it would be no benefit for them personally to have a deflated ball and of course others have said the opposite.
The question to ask if this was done pregame how could you determine the exact deflation the ball would end up with under the weather conditions on that day. It is assumed that Bellichick cheated, but when he was fined for spying it was back in 2007, this is 2015 and it is my understanding that it was a new rule at the time of his spy gate that occured. Should this always be held against him when up until that time several teams were doing the same thing and just didn't get caught.
Giving the benefit of doubt to the entire deflate-gate it is possible that whoever filled the balls prior to inspection did not know they would deflate during the weather conditions and it is just an unfortunate occurance.
Colts got their ass kicked regardless and this can not be completely attributed to the game ball.
Of course this is just my opinion and once again defending Tom Brady!
January 21st, 2015 at 11:25 AM ^
As a Colts fan, I can say "who cares". We wouldn't have won the game any way you look at it. The Pats dominated us. If true though, it is just another in a long line of really questionable and low actions by Belichek. Belichek reminds me a lot of Jose Mourinho. Both incredible coaches/managers, and their track record is proven, but their low behavior and these types of actions, really soil their reputation in my opinion.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:26 AM ^
Belichek just fired the ball boy because he didn't deflate all 12.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:29 AM ^
for this very strange and highly technical discussion that I couldn't imagine on any other CFB blog
January 21st, 2015 at 11:30 AM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 11:33 AM ^
Brad Johnson from the Bucs.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:35 AM ^
Isn't the NFL now measuring the balls at room temp? If the balls are now measuring 2 lbs low at room temp, then the cold weather is pretty much irrelevant. The balls were under-inflated. 11 balls didn't all lose 2 PSI just from being used during the game.
I don't think the NFL is taking them outside to measure them right now.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:01 PM ^
It actually is relevant, they are evaluated 2 hours and 15 minutes before game time indoors, then they go right outside, and sit outside for 2:15, plus call it 1:30 for the first half. That's 3 hours and 45 minutes, long enough for the heat to transfer and the ball to near equilibrium. They measured them at half time, the average length of a profootball half is what like 15 minutes? Assuming they brought them right in when the whistle blew and measured right before leaving, that's still not a lot of time for the ball (or at least the air inside it to warm back up. So it would measure different.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:40 AM ^
The ball is in the refs hands after each play and none of the officials raised suspicions that the ball didn't quite feel right. Of cousre the Colts would try to make excuses after an absolute thrashing. Indy cant even lose with a little decency.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:53 AM ^
At the end of the day, the colts got worked over, and destroyed. Saying they have no decency for calling out cheating is a little over the top, though, because cheating is cheating, plain and simple. One thing I can say is that Colts had a ton of dropped balls that game, and the Pats did not. If there was an advantage for the Pats due to this, then there is nothing petty about calling them out for it. Would it have changed the outcome of the game? Probably not, but it doesn't surprise me in the least that Belichek would do this.
January 21st, 2015 at 12:07 PM ^
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January 21st, 2015 at 12:34 PM ^
I see the Ravens are coming out of the word work and claiming the balls in their game were softer too.
January 21st, 2015 at 3:09 PM ^
If there was an advantage for the Pats due to this, then there is nothing petty about calling them out for it.It's petty when they don't have any actual proof of it beyond some of their players observing that the ball felt a "little different." Hardly definitive proof.
January 21st, 2015 at 12:47 PM ^
This is kind of ignorant. The game was certainly not out of hand at the point the complaint was made.
The balls were reported to the refs after D'Qwell Jackson's first half INT, which led to a Colts TD and only a 7 point deficit. The Colts were down 10 at halftime despite doing an awful lot to beat themselves, such as Boom Herron's stonehand drop of a sure TD and Josh Cribbs muffed punt. It's unreasonable to think the complaint was made only to save face.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:46 AM ^
all these years, then I think your balls would be deflated, too.
January 21st, 2015 at 12:19 PM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 12:31 PM ^
Show me the most beautiful woman in the world and I'll show you someone who is tired of her shit. Ha!
January 21st, 2015 at 11:48 AM ^
Brady prefers to throw a deflated ball so the Pats deflated their balls. My guess is they do this every game. When you're successful you will attract haters. Belichick definitely has his haters.
The only thing surprising about this story is what a big deal people think it is. I understand it's a rule but it's not like the Pats got an extra down every series.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:52 AM ^
Who the fuck cares? Since when did the NFL become a bastion of truth and justice?
January 21st, 2015 at 12:25 PM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 12:06 PM ^
I don't understand why each team has a set of their own footballs in the first place. Why wouldn't both teams just use the same balls? Why is this so retardedly overly complicated?
January 21st, 2015 at 12:30 PM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 1:55 PM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 3:01 PM ^
I hear ya... I realy do.
But retarded is such an insensitive word in that manner. Those are real people ya know. Like you even said "be nice to people".
I too have been chewed out for calling a female, ma'am. So I feel your pain there too. I'll take someone being grumpy at me for using manners any day of the week as that's the other person's issue not mine.
Carry on...
January 21st, 2015 at 5:42 PM ^
I don't understand why people continue to use retarded as a euphemism for stupid?!
For the exact same reason people use other outdated descriptions of mental disability as insults.
Idiot (IQ of 0-25), Imbecile (IQ of 26-50), and Moron (IQ of 51-70) were once considered valid psychological terms for mental disability.
By the middle of the 20th century these terms were deemed to have become offensive, and were replaced with mentally retarded.
By the end of the 20th century "mentally retarded" was deemed to have become offensive, and was replaced with intellectual diability.
... and in another 20 years "intellectual disability" will be deemed offensive and be replaced by another term.
It is what is known as the "Euphemism Treadmill"
See also:
January 21st, 2015 at 12:12 PM ^
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January 21st, 2015 at 12:15 PM ^
January 22nd, 2015 at 12:58 AM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 12:31 PM ^
"Under-inflated Ball Claim Nothing But A Lot Of Hot Air"
January 21st, 2015 at 12:35 PM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 12:54 PM ^
On this blog. This used to be a country where you were innocent until proven guilty. This has been lost in the system and even in football.
As of right now it is my understanding that no one really knows what actually happening with the deflate-gate in regards to the footballs. It is being assumed that the Patriot's done this, but no one really has the facts and what actually happened.
Science has alot of variables in why this might have happened and then of course who actually may have done it? Pointing fingers without the evidence is just another example of guilty until proven innocent.
Of course if you are with the otherside of this that a person/team is innocent until proven guilty than of course the fans are going to defend Tom Brady until it is proven otherwise.
Is this really wrong to not jump to worst conclusion not having any or all of the facts as to who, what, how and when this may have been done?
Of course if it comes out in a really bad light for the Patriots, I don't think anyone will defend the ball deflate cheating.
January 21st, 2015 at 2:00 PM ^
...it's a random selection from a lot of similar posts. But I'd have to call this a defense of cheating...
Old fashioned *is* cheating. Hell, Wooden is viewed as this paragon of coaching and he was blatantly cheating. Hall of fame baseball players through spitters. Goalies have had slightly bigger pads, etc. The Colts defense undoubtedly picked up the ball at some point. As long as it's part of the game (equipment, etc) that the opponent can detect and not performance enhancing drugs that can't be detected, that's part of sports.
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/nfl-investigating-patriots#comment-2988975
January 21st, 2015 at 2:27 PM ^
It is defense of waiting until the facts are in.
Who, What, When, Where, Why. All very important facts and understanding that although it is easy to say well they cheated, we don't have the information to support this at this time.
If when all of this information is in, I will be one of the first to NOT Defend the Patriots for this action, but to assume anything before we know what happened is once again everyone saying guilty before knowing any and all of the facts and I do not support this either.
January 21st, 2015 at 2:31 PM ^
He didn't say anything at all about waiting until the facts are in. He's saying, quite clearly, that cheating is part of sport as long as it doesn't involve something undetectable by the opposition.
January 21st, 2015 at 2:20 PM ^
My question is if the NFL actually confiscated all the balls from the playoff teams? Does this routinely happen in every game and that the Patriots just got caught because Rosenberg has woody for ruining anything Michigan-related (ie. Sir Tom Brady)? Somebody posted last night that Aaron Rodgers likes his footballs overinflated and admitted that. Why isn't that a big news item? If all the elite NFL quarterbacks modify their footballs to their liking, what is the NFL going to do about it?
January 21st, 2015 at 2:28 PM ^
They only check the balls if one of the teams requests it, and as far as we know only the Colts made such a request. (What it has to do with Rosenberg, I have no idea.)
It's a bit like checking the curvature of a hockey stick. Well, except that there's no penalty in this case.
January 21st, 2015 at 6:28 PM ^
very disappointing to read opinions other than my own. LMFAO
"Very disappointing to read comments on this board who say this isn't a big deal, that it isn't the Patriots fault, and think it is ok to play by a different set of rules than their opponent."
January 21st, 2015 at 12:44 PM ^
If only Brady hadn't thrown the interception...
/s
January 21st, 2015 at 1:35 PM ^
I have a chemical engineering degree so leets get the dust off..
We can say that the pressure difference should be proportional to the difference in temperature (as was discussed above).
Edit: never mind the game-time temperature in New England was 51 degrees.
There's no chance that the air pressure dropped that much from temperature difference.
Lets assume it was 20 degrees fahrenheit instead.
20 degrees = 266 Kelvin.
70 degrees = 294 Kelvin.
266/294 = 0.90.
12.5 *.90 = 11.3
That's less than 2 pounds under pressure and that's an absolute optimal case in the Patriots favor at a temperature 30+ degrees under the actual game-time temperature. Thus, it was either accidental or deliberate and NOT a temperature difference which caused this.
Edit: read Drailok's post below. I've forgotten in the intervening years about the nuances of guage pressure. So take my answer with a grain of salt.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:28 PM ^
Summary: The PSI could have dropped to around 10.5, depending on about a million factors...
Question:
If an NFL football is 12.5 psi at 68 degrees Fahrenheit, what is the psi at 30 degrees Fahrenheit? Before anyone asks, yes I am a Patriots fan.
Edit: I know the air temp was 51 F but the rain was much colder and at times freezing. Thank you all for the responses.
Answer:
Football pressure is measured in PSIg, not PSIa. The absolute temperature change is not proportional to the gaugepressure change. Clearly the starting pressure of the football is not 12.5 PSIa because it would be crushed by atmospheric pressure.
Your equation should read (68 + 459.67) / (30 + 459.67) = (12.5 + 14.7) / (x + 14.7) where x is the new gauge pressure. Solving this equation yields x = 10.5 PSIg, significantly different from your result of 11.6 PSI.