OT: Advice for young couples (actually, mostly for guy fans)
This is way, way OT, and certainly irrelevant to many of you. I feel compelled to give some gentle advice that may be helpful to one or two of the readers here. The reason is the struggle I see in my own daughter's marriage, significantly caused by sports.
I myself have been a Michigan fan for many years, attending games when I can, making it out to several Rose Bowls, and watching Michigan football and basketball games whenever I can catch them. Oh, and obsessively reading mgoblog. So my daughter knows casual fandom.
My daughter was ok with this, and has even been to games with me. However, she didn't really know what she was getting into when she got married to a diehard sports fan. My son-in-law's life revolves around sports. He loves watching games all day Saturday and all day Sunday, along with whatever games are on TV Thursday, Sunday, and Monday night. And basketball games the others nights. He knows tons of stats for the NFL and NBA, and watches all things Green Bay, and goes to Bucks and Brewers games regularly. He watches the WWL, and follows several blogs. And his addiction to sports is breaking up their marriage.
I actually don't blame him: I think my own daughter was clueless about what it meant to be married to an obsessive sports fan. I can't predict whether or not their marriage will last. Because following sports is so much part of his life, I don't think it is fair to ask him to change. But I also don't know that she is prepared to live life with someone whose every waking moment revolves around sports and cars.
My advice? Just make sure, if you are heavily addicted to sports, that your potential mate really understands how far your addiction goes. And that your mate either shares your addiction, or is fine with doing most things separately. Because if your partner expects to be doing different things with you on the weekends, and you expect your weekend to go mostly to following sports, there is going to be a problem.
December 18th, 2015 at 10:57 AM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 11:09 AM ^
Obviously, you're seeing into some of what is happening.
It's quite possible that I failed my daughter when I realized she wanted to rescue and help her future husband, and I didn't steer her far away. But yeah, she knew there were significant problems prior to marriage, and deliberately chose to enter into them. It is tricky to know how much to model what a healthy relationship is to someone who has huge, huge trust issues (and lives far away to boot).
December 18th, 2015 at 11:49 AM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 11:02 AM ^
You're a good dude, StephenRKass. With the whole family working together, I bet they can get through this.
December 18th, 2015 at 11:37 AM ^
Maybe you can offer it as an Xmas present to get the ball rolling and help with the cost?
Maybe spend some one on one with your SIL to just talk life? No need to take sides just share some life lessons and let him know you are there to support both of them.
I sincerely wish the best to your entire family.
December 18th, 2015 at 11:44 AM ^
Nothing says "Merry Christmas!" like a gift card for marriage counseling. I know what I'm looking forward to in my stocking this year!
Kidding, of course. It would be a nice gesture.
December 18th, 2015 at 7:47 PM ^
Ah, there it is. One thing I tell all my friends and will tell my kids when they're older, 'dont date broken people.' You can't fix them, why make life more difficult on yourself, it's like going to a car dealer and asking for a lemon.
December 18th, 2015 at 10:26 AM ^
People don't get married to their mothers or fathers (well, at least people who don't live in the South).
Also, grown men who are so obsessed with sports they follow EVERY one and EVERY game and wear jerseys, shut their families out, and actually keep stats and play fantasy sports? Stay the hell away from them.
Women who don't understand that you have just 13 weeks out of 52 to enjoy college football?
Stay the hell away from them.
December 18th, 2015 at 10:27 AM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 10:29 AM ^
Having a kid changes everything. And if he ends up ignoring his kids in favor of sports, see my above post about how to resolve that situation.
December 18th, 2015 at 10:40 AM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 10:39 AM ^
HAVING KIDS IS NOT A REASON TO FIX YOUR MARRIAGE!
December 18th, 2015 at 10:43 AM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 10:54 AM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 11:02 AM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 11:29 AM ^
As a former Big Brother, coach, mentor, et al this is a real hot topic for me. I get so mad at selfish people who have kids and then ignore them or think they will solve their bigger relationship issues.
December 18th, 2015 at 10:28 AM ^
Too little, too late, but I feel like this is a good reason people should live together for a while before deciding to get married.
December 18th, 2015 at 10:32 AM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 10:34 AM ^
Dude, I hate to say it, as I was(and still am) heavily into watching sports as well, but for God's sake make some compromises. It is absolutely fair to ask him to change and take your daughters needs into account.
After I got married, I picked watching college ball and then selected pro games here and there and you better bet if there are family plans that conflict, the family plans win(most of the time). You communicate the games that are important and when they are and try to schedule a workaround, but........sometimes it doesn't happen. As much of a priority as I try to make Michigan games and as much as I am supported on that by my wife, I still missed three of them this year because I had things with the kids that conflicted, it's called life and if you don't look up, you could miss it.
I feel for your daughter and hope that she and her husband can work through this, but there needs to be compromise and understanding on both sides.
December 18th, 2015 at 10:48 AM ^
I agree with you 100%. Family takes precedence.
True story: because of a family event, I had to miss the 4th quarter of the MSU game. My son and I listened to as much as we could on the radio. The last 10 - 15 minutes, we were tracking on my cell phone. The last 10 seconds, ESPN on my phone froze. And then I got a text from my daughter (who was watching the game): Worst. Game. Ever. Arghh. But at the end of the day, it was more important to miss watching the end of the game. Maybe it was best for me, after all.
Back to my daughter and son-in-law: while I agree with you, it is tricky how much advice you can give to a son-in-law. Naturally, he is going to assume I am taking my daughter's side. This is why outside, impartial counselling may be the most helpful thing. Because it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that you have to set limits on your fandom, and make compromises to make a marriage work.
December 18th, 2015 at 11:51 AM ^
I replied to an earlier post where you mentioned she was in the Navy, but the military angle really adds some elements to it where if she's gone a lot it's hard to downshift for him to accomodate her being home. It also likely means communication isn't going super well as you don't really get to talk when one partner is gone for a long time. The worst fights my wife and I ever had usually happened about a week to two weeks after I got home from a long deployment or about four to five months into a long term consulting gig.
From my perspective from my time in the military(and avoiding divorce only because we were married and knew we had to work with the commitment and even then I think it was a closer thing than either of us realized):
I think the best advice for him is he has his own life and is used to it, but needs to make compromises when she's back and make sure she feels valued. You might not be in a great position to say this, but if his background is as dysfunctional as you say then he may need the male role model.
For your daughter, I think it's that even if she's home her husband still needs his own time and his own life and cannot revolve around her like the sun every time she gets back.
Good Luck man and I hope this helps.
December 18th, 2015 at 10:41 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
December 18th, 2015 at 10:43 AM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 11:01 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
December 18th, 2015 at 11:08 AM ^
When you are on your deathbed, your last thoughts on what your overall quality of life was, usually does not include :"I wish I had worked more", I wish I had gone to more sporting events", " I wish I had more money"...
Hopefully it doesn't include: " I wish I had been a better husband", " I wish I had been a better parent".
The holidays are a special time to spend time with your family and pay attention to them.
December 18th, 2015 at 10:43 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
December 18th, 2015 at 10:47 AM ^
"I actually don't blame him: I think my own daughter was clueless about what it meant to be married to an obsessive sports fan."
... I find somewhat troubling.
It's placing the onus solely on your daughter for marrying this guy, when the reality is it sounds like he wasn't ready for marriage, and shouldn't have pursued it if he can't make good on the commitment to be selfless and put his spouse ahead of himself.
Your daughter needs you to be in her corner. That doesn't mean blindly taking her side, but basically absolving him of all responsibility for the situation isn't a balanced perspective.
If they're going to make this work they both need to have the perspective of working together and realizing that they're on the same team. When spouses make the mutual decision to put each other first, and make the other's flourishing their top priority (rather than hunkering down and taking a defensive stance, preserving their own self interest first) that is when marriages thrive.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
December 18th, 2015 at 11:12 AM ^
I actually mostly agree with you, but I don't want to write an overlong response explaining detail. Suffice to say, my wife and I had concerns when they pursued marriage, and expressed those concerns. It was very important to me to express what was important (to me) to both of them. Having said that, we had to let them make decisions for themselves.
At this point, we continue to have concerns, and have suggested counselling, which is the next step, and which they have agreed to pursue. Our daughter knows that we both support her and love her unconditionally. She also knows that regardless of what happens, we felt that counselling would be wise. If it helps them salvage their marriage and move into a more healthy relationship with each other, wonderful. If it helps them end their marriage and learn from their mistakes going forward, well, that's also good.
Part of the truth for most of us is that sometimes, we have to learn things the hard way.
December 18th, 2015 at 10:49 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
December 18th, 2015 at 10:55 AM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 11:05 AM ^
because people never act a certain way during the courting process and then "change" after getting married.
The fact is that the son-in-law will need to decide what is more important. If he's obsessed with sports (or anything else) to the point of neglecting the health of his marriage, then that is a problem that needs to be addressed.
My turning point was when my wife (from the time we were dating) pointed out to me that I turned into a big jerk after Michigan lost a game, like I became a different person she didn't want to be around. After multiple times telling me that, it finally sunk in and I realized that life shouldn't hinge on whether or not my favorite sports teams won or lost. Also, no sportscenter during "relations". ;)
December 18th, 2015 at 11:36 AM ^
because people never act a certain way during the courting process and then "change" after getting married.
It happens - but it's rarely a large change, and there were generally LOTS of indications of it.
Usually it isn't so much that people change - it's that tolerance for a behavior changes. What was a cute and ignorable foible when dating becomes an issue in a 24/7 relationship.
It also doesn't usually carry over to living together. Usually if you've lived together full time for over 6 months, that "change" will already be happening.
December 18th, 2015 at 11:47 AM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 3:31 PM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 7:53 PM ^
Because people generally give way too little thought to marriage and just do what's easy, what hurts the least now, and/or what's expected of them.
December 18th, 2015 at 10:58 AM ^
I was an obsessive sports fan, all things sports. Living in Las Vegas, I gambled, hung out at the sports books, and generally did everything I could to catch games. After I met my girl, most of that stopped. I decided that I wanted to be around her, do things with her. Our relationship still has its sports related interferences, such as ANY Michigan game that is on, Detroit Lions games (which, I'm not as obsessive about, and I have Sunday ticket on my phone), and Red Wings playoff games. Most of the other sports I watch occasionally and I really don't miss it as much as I thought. My fantasy teams have take a hit since I'm not obsessively watching and scouring the Internet for juicy nuggets about each player (to be honest, it's mostly fantasy football, I've won my baseball and hockey leagues the past two years still, finished 2nd in the basketball one last season, so still cashing.)
My advice, and I'm not a relationship expert, is to enjoy your partner. She tries to watch sports with me and I try to do wine and painting nights with her, even if that means I miss the Monday night football game. There is give and take in every relationship, she should expect him to give a little, just as he should expect her to understand that this Sunday's Packer game is the biggest game of the season so far (always an excuse I give to watch games that are late in the season, since every game gets bigger and means more, I use this excuse often, and my girl doesn't follow it enough to really know the difference.)
I hope they stay together and work it out, I hope they find that happy medium which makes them both happy.
*Sorry if formatting is off, I'm on mobile.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
December 18th, 2015 at 10:58 AM ^
I like sports as much as the next guy, but there is a big issue if many different sports and many levels of the same sport are commanding this much attention. You cannot serve both all levels of football/basketball/baseball/hockey/whatever, AND serve your wife and family. It just doesn't work like that. The only schedule-clearing sport I've developed into my late 20s is college football. I usually get the 14 Saturdays from noon until 2am to watch and/or go to the game, barring an important family event. I usually get the Thursday night to watch college football, too. But I leave everything else open. Otherwise you're asking for problems in a relationship like that. Even as it is, it's somewhat of a struggle for us to make it through college football season without a spat or two. If you're really into a bunch of sports, fine, that's great. But don't expect to remain that dedicated to that many sports and get a fruitful and joyful relationship at the same time. It's impossible.
December 18th, 2015 at 10:59 AM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 11:49 AM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 12:33 PM ^
I will second the "not guarunteed" speak. I had 2 kids and actually things got much worse because of the unique stresses that having 2 kids under 4 years old brings to a marriage.
How to people deal with stress? They recluse into their activities which for this guy does not seem like a good idea at all.
December 18th, 2015 at 7:57 PM ^
Kids do not improve marriages, kids make marriage harder and exacerbate any issues that already exist. Nobody should have kids unless their marriage is perfect and can withstand the hit. Furthermore if the gamble fails, good job, you just created a kid who will come from a broken home and have issues stemming from it his entire life.
December 18th, 2015 at 11:02 AM ^
Do they have kids? Once they have kids he will all the sudden have to prioritize and won't be able to watch sports all day, every day. At that point, he will realize that he will have to carve out 3 hours on a Saturday to watch a specific game and possibily 3 hours on a Sunday.
The son-in-law will evolve as he gets older. If they have kids already, I digress...there is a problem.
December 18th, 2015 at 11:21 AM ^
Maybe they don't want kids. I feel like that attitude is gaining more widespread acceptance. Either that, or I'm just becoming more aware of the world around me. All the childless couples I know have significantly better and more fulfilling lives than the ones with kids, too.
December 18th, 2015 at 1:04 PM ^
For me being a Dad is as good as it gets.
December 18th, 2015 at 8:00 PM ^
Supposedly children have a slight negative effect on overall happiness and the happiest people are childless couples. I'd agree with that, except for old couples, I can't imagine the childless 60 year old couple being happier than the one surrounded by kids and grandkids.
December 18th, 2015 at 11:06 AM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 11:16 AM ^
Might be what he needs to hear/read.
December 18th, 2015 at 11:51 AM ^
December 18th, 2015 at 2:28 PM ^
He is not a Michigan fan. Nor is he a Michigan enemy. But he has a ton of t-shirts and jerseys from various teams, and follows lots of sports, headlined by the NFL and NBA. First Green Bay, then the Bucks, then Wisconsin sports, then sports in general. Mocks the Bears, and follows lots of football and basketball. Although he'd probably watch any sport he had a ticket to. He definitely is not on this blog. I'm a tad raw because our daughter was home on leave for 10 days, and this is something they're going through and dealing with right now. Really just wanted to say in my OP, as I think many already hold, enjoy your sports fandom, but keep a sense of perspective on what's really important in life.
December 18th, 2015 at 12:35 PM ^