Oosterbaan's #47 and Kramer's #87 also being issued this fall
Per Angelique Chengelis on Twitter:
angelique @chengelis
Michigan announces jerseys worn by Oosterbaan (47), Ford (48) and Kramer (87) returning to field with "Football Legend" designation
Edit: Confirmed on MGoBlue.com:
http://www.mgoblue.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/061212aaa.html
Following are the tentative dates for recognizing legend status for Oosterbaan, Ford and Kramer:
- Bennie Oosterbaan -- Air Force (Sept. 8)
- Ron Kramer -- Massachusetts (Sept. 15)
- Gerald Ford -- Illinois (Oct. 13)
Edit 2: via @umichfootball, two quotes from Dave Brandon;
"The Ford, Kramer & Oosterbaan families want to see their family member honored in this way way."
"We have yet to have any discussions with the Wistert or Harmon families."
really? we're un-retiring numbers? i guess if it sells more jerseys that's all that matters.
Given that we can't retire any more numbers (we can't take any more out of circulation), this is the best option. Otherwise we've got one policy for guys who played before 1956 (retired numbers) and one for those who played after (no retirements), which is illogical and unfair to the recent guys.
This is a way to keep the memories is those great players alive for the rest of UM's history.
The Families want to see those numbers on the field. Its actually a better way to honor past greats because there names will be on the field every season.
What ever....I'd rather we eased into it if we did it to make the moment more special for the players and families of the retired players.
I don't hate this if (and only if) the right players are wearing the jerseys. If the families are cool with it then fair enough.
and my completely unfounded guess on this issue is they wouldn't take this many out of retirement if they didn't have some idea who they were going to give them to. This would make 4 "Legends" jerseys which makes me think they would be given to the captains or something like that. perhaps kovacs and demens getting the 47/48 and I'm not sure who would get the 87 maybe roh switches from 88 but i would think it would be somebody on offense just don't know who given that 87 is usually a reciever number and none of the recievers other than roy have the experience/production combination that I think would be needed for a legend
There will be none. BK_Finest that sh*t.
I liked the idea last year with Desmond and I still like it now. I guarantee more people will know who Ron Kramer and Bennie Oosterbaan are because of this and I think that is exactly what the point of honoring them was in the first place.
Every few years these jerseys will be awarded. Whether they go to captains, stars or recruits the history of the player the numbers honor....and subsequent greats who wore them...will be given. I don't like much of what Brandon does, but I have zero problem with getting these legends jerseys into circulation.
Agreed. It was much too large.
Guesses:
48-Kovacs
47-Demens
87-Gallon
Before the annual Dave Brandon diatribe when ever he makes a change begins, he said he was going to do this last year.
He said that evetually, he wants to get all of the retired numbers to become Legend numbers WITH THE PERMISSION OF THE HONOREES FAMILIES.
This is how it should be. The legacy of the numbers will live on.
but I like this move a lot. For reasons already well laid out in this thread I think it is a great way to honor those players of the past while giving our future greats a way to be recognized as well.
The only thing I would say (and I am echoing Brian and Seth here) is that the numbers should be given to underclassmen IMHE. Giving it to upperclassmen who are "great players" would make it difficult to one day honor those players with a patch of their own.
If an underclassment wore the legend patch and turned out to be legendary himself, he could be added to the patch and people would remember that "hey, so and so was number 48 for four years and was a great safety for us". Whereas if you only give it to upperclassmen you (I should say I) would have trouble remembering them wearing that legend number for one season when they wore another for the previous 3-4 years.
Anyway, al in all I really like this move by Brandon. Even though I am not a fan of a lot of what he has done, I am not just a hater, he did good here IMHE.
It was definitely too big. All it needs is the legendary player's name. We can figure out the rest.
but no #1 yet.....
so apparently the #1 is more sacred a number in michigan football than #48, which was an f'ing president.....
it's kind of a cool idea, but seems gimmicky, and just throwing a tacky patch on the jersey.....not a huge fan
But you realize he was never elected right? He was APPOINTED Vice Presendent, and only became president after his boss resigned in public disgrace.
I have no problem with Ford the man, the president, the All American Michigan player, or longtime program booster. The hero worship is a bit ridiculous however, there have been better players than Gerald Ford at Michigan that were'nt lucky enough to become president afterwards.
Yeah, because, like, with a little luck, maybe Braylon Edwards coulda been President, and then we'd have a really good reason to retire #1...
Why is this happening so fast? Why not do one per year at a big game, or something? We're honoring Ford at Illinois? Really? Why? Same with Kramer at Massachusetts. At least wait until Big 10 games. I guess DB thinks we need a show to attract fans and interest to the cupcakes.
You do realize those are the first three home games of the season right. They're just trying to do a seperate ceremony for each of the families much like they did for Desmond. If they add a fourth jersey before the season start I'm sure the ceremony will be the day of the Michigan State game.
Legend
Expect #1 and #2 to get similar deserved treatment by next year.
I'm just happy I have tickets to the AFA and ILL games so I'll see two of the three ceremonies.
The numbers #1 and #2 aren't retired yet. There shouldn't be a patch for those jerseys until they honor Woodson and maybe AC.
I don't like this. What was the point of retiring the numbers in the first place if we're bringing them back?
I know, I know. "Get off my lawn." I guess this is further proof why everyone on YouTube thinks I'm in my 70's.
Michigan is about tradition, but our traditions are unique. This is the newest of our unique traditions.
The point is we're not retiring numbers anymore. We've come up with something much better in my opinion.
What was the point of retiring the numbers in the first place if we're bringing them back?
If we still had only 40 players on the team, like we did way back in the single-platoon days when we started retiring numbers, we'd keep these retired. We did not know then that we'd eventually have over 100 players on the team, and thus a shortage of available numbers. If we'd known that, I don't think we'd have ever retired any.
I do think they should only honor one legend per season, though. Make it a special event each time.
You're missing the point. The athletic department's plan wasn't just to stop with the seven guys currently recognized and never retire anymore. It wanted to keep going with jersey retirements, cutting the number of available numbers down further. But that would be cutting it close. As it was, we were penalized recently for playing two guys with the same number at the same time.
Let's not pretend that the seven guys currently honored are clearly superior to everyone else who's ever played here. Really, how could you justify retiring Ron Kramer's jersey but not Desmond Howard's or Charles Woodson's? Can anyone honestly argue that they didn't contribute as much to the Michigan tradition than Kramer, who played on three forgettable teams in the mid-1950s and was never in the running for the Heisman?
What about Anthony Carter? Mike Hart? Braylon Edwards? Rick Leach? Lloyd Carr recently spoke of a "backlog" of guys who are worthy of having their numbers retired. I'm pretty sure the reason we haven't added to list is simply that it hasn't been practical to take any more out of circulation. But that leads to the absurd de facto policy we had for a long time of not allowed anyone who played after 1960 a retired jersey. We're not Minnesota. We have a history that extends beyond then.
Woodson, Leach and AC are very deserving. Probably a couple linemen, too. Maybe a guy like Dierdorf, Hutchinson, Long, etc...
There is no need to disparage Ron Kramer and his accomplishments. His playing on "forgettable" teams makes his selection to the All-American team (two times) that much more of a testament to his ability. Your comment about the Heisman race is equally absurd.
Thanks for correctly using a gerund. My faith in the American education system has been restored by one unit.
Sorry, I am an engineer and for the life of me, I have zero idea what a gerund is. Now I will have to go look it up and see if I care.
;-)
My point is not to disparage Kramer. He certainly was a great player. But how can you justify his jersey retirement over Desmond's or Woodson's? You can't seriously argue that he was more of a Michigan icon than those two.
The only reason he has a retired number and they don't was that we ended the practice, not because people actually think those two don't measure up to him.
My point is that you are smart enough to make your point without tearing Kramer down even if unintentional. I also think that there must be more to Mr. Kramer than you think since his number was retired as soon as he graduated. Different times , different criteria perhaps.As far as football skills and accomplishments, Charles Woodson and Desmond Howard without a doubt equal if not surpass Mr. Kramer.
This is not an all-sports honor; it's a football honor. Unless we're talking about a guy like Ford who became President, non-football considerations should not matter.
Charles Woodson and Desmond Howard received the highest honor any college football player can. Woodson is the only player in college football history to receive the Heisman while playing defense. But he's not good enough to be on par with the Wisterts, Oosterbaan, Harmon, Kramer and Ford? Ridiculous.
Maybe we don't have enough fire hydrants to paint.
I might be in the minority, but I think this is a great idea. It will be cool to see the numbers on the field as a one off, plus it will put some national attention to the idea thus more kids hering about Michigan. Might also be used as a recruiting tool as well.
The only problem I have are the games they are being used in. Air Force, UMass, and Illinois? How about ND, MSU, and OSU. At least make the numbers actually mean something.
I was under the impression that they're putting the numbers back in circulation for good. So it will be the same as last year with Desmond. There will be a ceremony and from then on the jersey will have that patch.