Non-traditional Rivals
So, with Michigan set to take on North Carolina (again...) this season and with the addition of UCLA and USC to the conference, I started thinking about Michigan's non-traditional, 'pseudo' rivals. Basically, what teams have played Michigan enough in recent years to consider the matchup a new or developing rivalry?
Amongst Michigan fans, the top 3 rivals are of course, undisputed: Ohio State is first and then, depending on personal preference, Michigan State and Notre Dame. I also consider Penn State and Wisconsin to be rivals on a tier below those three. But, in recent years Michigan has found itself in matchups time and time again with other big-time programs from other conferences and with whom they have a shared history, sometimes including classic games.
But, who would you consider a top OOC rival for Michigan?
August 1st, 2022 at 12:03 PM ^
Recency biased, I would have to consider Florida and in basketball I would always consider Duke.
August 1st, 2022 at 12:05 PM ^
I guess, the real question is what makes a rival? It would have to meet a few metrics: how often do the teams play and under what circumstances? What were the outcomes and what were the stakes? I guess it helps if the game was particularly memorable and resulted in an especially sweet victory or bitter defeat.
Here's who I was thinking...
Florida: Michigan has played the Gators in bowl games 4 times since 2003 and they faced off in an early season non-conference game in 2017. Michigan also knocked Florida out of the NCAA tournament in 2013 and 2019. Michigan had been matched up with Florida so often at one point it became a running joke on mgoblog.
UNC: This year's matchup will be the 5th time in 6th seasons, Michigan will play the Heels. Oddly, Michigan and UNC did not face each other for years following the 1993 national title game, despite the ongoing Big Ten-ACC challenge. This seems like a classic matchup that should be on the books fairly frequently but it may be getting played out recently. I'm unaware of any football games between the two schools.
UCLA beat Michigan in a painful 2000 football game but they haven't played since; the Bruins beat M in the Elite 8 in 2020 and the teams split a home-and-home series in 2016 and 2017. Beilein also beat them early in his tenure in a key program-building victory, if I recall correctly.
FSU, Michigan knocked them out of the NCAA twice in recent years but lost to the Seminoles in a wild Orange Bowl in 2016.
Hon. mention: Villanova bounced M from the tournament this year and in the 2018 title game but Michigan blew them out in the inaugural game in their new arena in 2019, but no D-1 football to speak of. USC: IIUC, Michigan has played USC 8 times in the Rose Bowl and is...2-6 against them. I can't recall any recent basketball games vs. the Trojans. Louisville, classic NCAA title game in 2013 and Michigan got tournament revenge a few seasons later, plus L'ville won a controversial College World Series game this year? Duke, old-fashioned annual OOC matchup that has been dormant for years.
August 1st, 2022 at 12:39 PM ^
Michigan played UNC in the 1979 Gator Bowl. They lost 17-15 (because they failed to convert twice after TD's). Anthony Carter scored both TD's. A young Lawrence Taylor was the on the UNC team.
This is before my time, but a UNC fan (my former commander) told me this game went a long way towards making both UNC and the ACC "major" college football, whereas for the '70s they weren't quite considered major. He said Clemson's natty a few years later was only possible because of this.
Mind you colonels are generally considered to be crazy old men and I'm pretty sure this was sorta before his time, but that was what the living memory was for people in North Carolina.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing them - or Duke or UVA or G Tech - on the football schedule from time to time. Michigan never seems to play those types of teams.
Eh, UNC football has accomplished little since 1979.
Colonels are only crazy old men if they never get their star and stay in 30+ years. Kind of like E7's or E8's who couldn't promote, but they stay in the service until they die. But I'd agree with him on this scenario. Without that win, UNC was a nobody in football.
LT tore up John Wrangler’s knee on a sack in that game.
It was a fun trip though. I was in the MMB then.
I remember when we practiced our halftime routine at some high school field prior to the game. It was in the low 60s, IIRC. The UNC band was there too. We were all wearing t-shirts and shorts. The UNC band was wearing parkas. Too funny.
August 3rd, 2022 at 11:44 AM ^
I was there in Jacksonville, too, for the Gator Bowl, and I do remember it not being exactly warm the 3 or 4 days in town. Despite this, we still considered it to be t-shirts/shorts weather, while only the hardiest of "Tah Heel" fans were wearing their jorts.
Watched that game on TV -- as a very young Michigan fan transplanted to Chapel Hill but back in Ann Arbor for the holidays. What I remember about the game is LT breaking John Wangler's leg (or tearing up his knee, I guess, but that subtly was lost on young me) on a borderline hit in the backfield. I was so mad I went rubbed out the signature on the autographed mini-football I'd gotten at a mall appearance in North Carolina earlier that year.
John Wangler , our qb, was hurt on the first series or we would have won the game easily.
First half, anyway. He and AC were in a zone. Wangler actually had already accumulated over 200 yards passing when LT knocked him out of the game.
August 2nd, 2022 at 10:16 AM ^
You are correct. UNC couldn't stop Wangler to AC. Once Wangler was hurt, our offense was done.....
August 3rd, 2022 at 11:51 AM ^
Yep, Michigan was on a roll offensively as Wangler-to-Carter was clicking. That is, 'til LT's late hit destroyed Johnny Wang's knee and with it, most of our offense.
My first bowl game and my first bowl loss ☹️.
August 1st, 2022 at 12:40 PM ^
Rutger
They agree....
USC
We played USC in more bowl games than any other opponent and in more Rose Bowl games than any other. You have to go back to the 70s and 80s when they played each other the most and when both were national powerhouses. Matching up against USC in the Rose Bowl had the same energy as an OSU or ND game back then. Washington, UCLA, ASU, etc never had the same intensity. This is easily the biggest rivalry for Michigan outside of the Big 10 (for now).
August 1st, 2022 at 12:06 PM ^
Probably Florida because of bowl games. I believe we played south Carolina twice in a few years, but I wouldn't consider them rivals.
We lost both of those games close - i think the cocks came back on us in both! but they were both so long ago - and both we kinda accepted our squad was "rebuilding" and had great success shortly thereafter that makes me not lament them very much
Michigan beat S..Carolina 34-3 in 1985 at SC.Michigan's qb was Jim Harbaugh..SC beat Michigan in AA around the time Hershal Walker was playing for Georgia.SC beat Michigan twice in Outback Bowl,3-1 all time for SC.
Outback bowl was brutal. Not even close.
August 1st, 2022 at 12:15 PM ^
florida
August 1st, 2022 at 12:17 PM ^
Football I would say Washington. We've played them more (13 games, 8-5 record) than any other major program outside of the Big Ten and Notre Dame.
Basketball would be Duke. Played them 30 times and they are one of the easiest programs to hate.
I know this is OOC, but I would like to remind everyone that Wisconsin basketball is a rival. Their play style/philosophy since Dick Bennett was their coach is a crime against the sport of basketball. Everyone outside of the state of Wisconsin should hate their basketball program.
August 1st, 2022 at 12:33 PM ^
Totally agree with you regarding the Washington Huskies. I had planned to go to the 2020 game in Seattle (since rescheduled for 2028) that was subsequently cancelled because of the pandemic.
Nearly every game we've ever played vs UW has been a big game. If not in the Rose Bowl, the majority of them have been matchups between two nationally -ranked teams. If/when the next round of B1G expansion happens, would love to see Washington included.
I always thought we could have had something special in football with Colorado. Good games with them in the ‘90s against the backdrop of the Wings/Avs rivalry.
August 1st, 2022 at 12:26 PM ^
Notre Dame is the only real choice for top OOC rival. The fact that they aren't B1G somehow only adds to the rivalry.
There are other schools that annoy me (like Duke for basketball recruiting), but those rivalries are all of the "You've been a thorn in our side lately" variety. There's no OOC team other than Notre Dame that's notable when they aren't on our schedule.
We have a winner.
August 1st, 2022 at 12:37 PM ^
I know it's splitting hairs but in terms of the word 'rival,' it's just the three major rings of evil; OSU, MSU and Notre Dame. To a lesser degree, you could sort of include Minnesota because of the Little Brown Jug (the only real regular season trophy game that should exist) but that's probably stretching things.
Everyone else is simply a team I want to beat. There's just different levels of how badly I hate and want to beat them. Like Penn State. I want to beat the living tar out of them every time we play. Even when we had the 9 game winning streak over them (which would have been an 11 game winning streak had we played in 2003 and 2004) I still wanted to beat them then as much as I ever did.
Out of conference games, football or basketball, are too once in a while to go into a rival like category. Like Florida and North Carolina. Not that I don't enjoy beating them. But if you lose to one of them, you don't know how long it will be before you can hopefully get revenge, so it's hard to keep the intensity up.
I mostly agree with your take - except that the way you describe Penn State is a rivalry to me. It may be new, it may be 4th on the list - but that feeling is the feeling you have for a rival.
Fully agree with what you say about OOC games - and unfortunately in my mind, this has sorta become true for Notre Dame and the entire Big Ten West that's not Wisconsin. For me, Penn State is #3. I'm generally on the record as anti-realignment and expansion, but Penn State makes me not hate it as much, because we did develop a mutual hatred rooted in competitive games and standings.
August 1st, 2022 at 12:42 PM ^
Florida fans hate playing us. we've had good success against them. our neighbors are besides themselves, given how many things are in their favor, and they continually are mediocre (post urban).
id like us to start a home and home with stanford, and leave nd to play msu and tulsa.
I always considered UW (Washington) a rival, and after last year's trouncing... booyah!
Wait...how did you manage to slip Tulsa in there?
August 1st, 2022 at 12:50 PM ^
For me it's based on how much I don't like the overall program and want them to lose even when not playing Michigan
Football:
Definitely: OSU, ND, MSU
Borderline:
Minnesota - greatest rivalry trophy, but I don't hope they lose every other game (the opposite really)
PSU - they were a football peer and it's always nice to beat your peers
Wisconsin - They sucked so bad prior to Barry Alvarez and Paul Chryst doesn't seem like a bad guy so it's harder to hate them, but they are a tough game and they have played a lot recently.
Iowa - They are almost always a tough game, but I don't hope they lose every other game. The pink locker room is pretty funny.
Nebraska - Scott Frost and his Mom make them a lot easier to hate, and yes, I'm still mad about 1997 and the Alamo Bowl.
Basketball:
Definitely: MSU, Indiana, Duke, Illinois (yes, this is real, if you watched in the 80's, they are on the list)
Borderline:
OSU: This bleeds over from football, but I have never been afraid of OSU's basketball program, even in the dark years of Michigan basketball
UNC: Long history here, but I always cheer for UNC against Duke
Villanova: Recency bias, but when a team knocks you out of the tournament twice in a few years and your only consolation is beating them during the regular season, that's the beginning of a rivalry. If they play 2-3 more times over the next 5 years this is full rivalry, or it may fizzle out.
Illinois is definitely a second tier rival, first if you ask Illinois fans, though exclusively for BBall on our side...unless you remember back to at least the Mike White days, or better still to Butkas. I still don't forgive the Illini for the 1983 football season, letting them claim the only 9-0 Big 10 record - meanwhile getting pantsed by mediocre Missouri and UCLA squads in the opener and Rose Bowl respectively.
August 1st, 2022 at 10:46 PM ^
I've always thought Nebraska had potential to develop into a true rivalry if we ever end up playing them more regularly, assuming they can get back to 8+ wins a year
August 1st, 2022 at 12:58 PM ^
Of course, it is the "Hell with Notre Dame".
August 1st, 2022 at 12:59 PM ^
For me to consider a team as any sort of rival the rule of thumb is whether I reliably root against them when playing other teams. Now to add onto that requirement, this rooting interest must not be fueled by a general disdain for successful teams or a quirky individual factor i.e. it needs to be shared by a good few people in the fan base.
Wisconsin for instance is a team I want us to beat but if they play Minnesota, I don't really care one way or another. So not a rival.
I dislike Baylor immensely because I think they're the epitome of corruption and 'winning at any cost' in college sports today. But I know most Michigan fans don't care much either way, so not a rival.
Duke (basketball) and Alabama (football) are teams hated probably by a lot of Michigan fans . But they are also hated a lot by people in just about every other fanbase. It's hatred of success, not a team-specific rivalry.
As a result the only Michigan rivalry beyond MSU, OSU and Notre Dame I will let stand is Penn State. I think the paths of Michigan and Penn St have now crossed often enough for long enough for there to be genuine resentment on both sides. I know it's been there for *some* time on their end, but I would submit it's reached a certain point on our side too. Obviously not to the same level you get with the three aforementioned rivals (though ND is clearly a cut below MSU and OSU there too), but definitely more than what you get with say Wisconsin or Iowa.
Minnesota is an interesting case because they're technically and traditionally a rival of sorts. I feel like the division split put a lid on what was already kinda fading away beforehand. At this point Minnesota is just another B1G West team.
Bagmen
Seriously, I consider suspect/improper behavior in a rival or opponent to be a major motivating factor. That's why I hate Louisville's guts still and probably always will. And that's why that victory over LSU in the tournament last year was especially sweet - you knew that coach was dirty as hell.
Yea in my mind, Wiscy and PSU have passed ND - and mind you, ND-Michigan was an annual game my whole life until...it wasn't. I LOVED that rivalry, but in the Harbuagh/Playoff era, wiscy is the only B1G West team we played annually (minus 2015), and Wiscy and Penn St were, from 2016 on, a great measuring stick for where we were as a team. Year over year, they were peers - even MSU wasn't quite that - sure at their best they were as good or better than us, but at their worst they were just terrible in the late Dantonio era.
At the moment, I'd rank the rivals 1) OSU 2) MSU, and then 3) PSU 4)Wiscy. I look at ND as a more exciting version of the Jug - a historic rival that we hardly see anymore. Even tho the trophy is pretty brand new, I think of NW that way too, especially because Hoke's teams somehow pulled rabbits out of their asses to beat the purple stripes.
Outside of the Big Ten I know we've seen Florida a bunch but we've mostly owned them (altho not the most recent matchup). While I wasn't happy we lost to them, I was kinda happy for UGA when they beat Bama - until they basically overnight seemed to turn into the most obnoxious Bama fans, except without the decade of success behind it. But we have to be competitive with them for that to be any kind of a rivalry. Louisville has gotten us in controversial fashion a couple of times in bball - once basket, once base. So I kinda hate them too. .
Scott Frost's mom.
And Bo Pelini’s cat.
I don't know if it's a rival or not, but I'll always hate those fuckers from Louisville.
The block was clean
so was the tag
In football, Penn State and Nebraska, which are in-conference, obviously. Can't believe no one mentioned Southern Cal--those Rose Bowl match-ups! Florida feels like it could be a thing, like UM vs Miami (YTM) was a thing, kind of. Texas, because one of their grad programs is the chief rival of the grad program I got my UM degree from.
In basketball, FUCKING DUKE. Also Villanova. Fuck Louisville--it's a dinky little commuter college that isn't worth it.
The thing with USC is we've only beat them once in the last 50 years and the last couple of times we weren't even close against Pete Carroll
There's the hate factor right there. It's just sitting there! Let's pick it up and run with it---FUCK THE UNIVERSITY OF SPOILED CHILDREN!
I'm we're looking beyond football, the obvious answer is Louisville
In football, USC, Washington and Florida. I would like it if we revive the series with U of Miami based on a couple of past games and the current Gattis vibes.
In basketball, Duke, UCLA, and I would argue Louisville
In hockey, North Dakota, Denver and one or both of the Boston teams