NFL postseason QB comparison: Michigan vs. OSU
Someone on another thread mentioned that Tom Brady has 6 more Super Bowl rings than every OSU quarterback combined. That go me thinking about how we have had several decent QBs in the NFL, while OSU has had much less success. I decided to compile our respective postseason records. Specifically, I looked at playoff games started and playoff games won. I thought this might cheer me up a bit. It did.
I couldn't find a good comprehensive list of Michigan QBs who played in the NFL, so I didn't count anyone before Harbaugh, but I did find a complete OSU list (in an article about how little success they have had). Corrections are welcome.
MICHIGAN:
Harbaugh: started 5, won 2
Grbac: started 3, won 1
Collins: started 1
Griese: started 3, won 2
Henne: started 5, won 3
GOAT: started 41, won 30
Total without Brady: started 17, won 8
Total with Brady: started 58, won 38
OSU:
Tomczak: started 2, won 1.
That's it--that's also their total. In other words, looking at post-season accomplishments, OSU's best QB would rank #6 on our list, ahead of only Todd Collins.
January 6th, 2020 at 3:41 PM ^
Just goes to show they don't even need competent QB's to beat us lately.
January 6th, 2020 at 3:44 PM ^
well considering none of those QBs on our side played for us in the last 15+ years....
January 6th, 2020 at 4:06 PM ^
Chad Henne?
January 6th, 2020 at 4:10 PM ^
Sorry 13 years.
January 6th, 2020 at 4:00 PM ^
It mainly shows that it's far easier to 'out-athlete' somebody in college than the pros.
To not have a QB that can consistently pick up positive yards when the play breaks down is a HUGE disadvantage, and being athletic can make up for a lot of arm deficiencies. JT Barrett was a fairly competent passer at the college level, but think of how many plays he made by himself when nothing was open to extend drives. It absolutely kills me that Michigan has had really 1? QB (Denard) in the last 30 years with the ability and poise to truly do that routinely. Obviously a good arm can make up for some of that (think Grbac, Greise, Brady, Navarre, Henne) but damn it's frustrating.
January 6th, 2020 at 6:20 PM ^
It mainly shows that it's far easier to 'out-athlete' somebody in college than the pros.
Recruiting. It really [expletive] matters.
January 6th, 2020 at 5:39 PM ^
whats up with all the obsessing over OSU on this board? Every football thread is about them- people here are acting like little brother
January 6th, 2020 at 3:43 PM ^
Henne won three playoff games?
January 6th, 2020 at 3:48 PM ^
Yeah, that seems "dubious". If he gets credit for games he didn't play in, doesn't Griese get credit for the SB Denver won in 1999?
January 6th, 2020 at 6:25 PM ^
In my best The Count voice:
Seven! Seven Super Bowl wins! Ah Ha, Seven!
January 6th, 2020 at 3:51 PM ^
I am not seeing that Chad Henne has ever appeared in a playoff game.
January 6th, 2020 at 3:54 PM ^
Oops. I mistakenly included games for which he was on the roster--counted him as starting when he didn't.
That makes Tomczak #5 and lowers our totals to 12/5 without Brady and 53/35 with Brady.
Sorry!
January 6th, 2020 at 3:48 PM ^
Haskins, Cardale, JT Barrett, etc... have exemplified how OSU has a great SYSTEM that allows their QB's to succeed.
I mean Haskins looked like the best QB in the country last year and broke records. He looked objectively terrible in his rookie season. And while he is a rookie, most QBs with the accomplishments he had in college are successful rather quickly at the next level.
It will likely be the same for Fields after next season where he won't amount to much as a QB in the NFL. But hey, their system leads to winning games and lots of them
January 6th, 2020 at 4:04 PM ^
Define "objectively terrible."
Here's his rookie season game log. Note that he didn't start in either of his first two appearances, he was just kinda tossed out there. Then his HC was fired before week 6. Haskins' first start was in week 9. Idk, I see a QB who objectively sucked when pressed into a starting role in the middle of games with no reps, before objectively improving and finishing strong after he got more practice and reps. It's a shame he got hurt in his last game, because he was 12/15 for 133 yards and 2 TDs before getting injured in week 16. He didn't get to start week 17 due to injury.
There is nothing that indicates that Haskins is the Redskins long-term answer at the position, but there's also nothing that indicates that he isn't. Let's give him more than a few starts in a rotten situation with a transition staff before we put the nail in his coffin?
Most rookie QBs are unsuccessful at the next level. That's kinda the whole deal. It's a gigantic crapshoot. Fields is probably going to be drafted second overall. So, you know, whatever.
January 6th, 2020 at 4:15 PM ^
The Redskins aren't the best situation but you still have to admit he disappointed, especially given his success at OSU. Here are some comparisons just to this year's rookie QB's.
Dwayne Haskins: 7 TDs to 7 INTs, 58.6% Comp, 6.7 YPA, 76.1 Rating
Drew Lock: 7 TDs to 3 INTs, 64.1% Comp, 6.5 YPA, 89.7 Rating
Kyler Murray: 20 TDs to 12 INTs, 64.4% Comp, 6.9 YPA, 87.4 Rating
Gardner Minshew: 21TDs to 6 INTs, 60.6 Comp %, 7 YPA, 91.2 Rating
David Blough: 4 TDs to 6 INTs, 54% Comp, 5.7 YPA, 64 Rating
The fact that Haskins is closer to David Blough than anyone else here is astounding and shows how disappointing he was. You are correct that he improved as the season went along, but that doesn't mean he didn't disappoint.
And before you can argue the situation he was in, NONE of the QB's I listed including Daniel Jones below are in good situations. The Giants were just as bad and he put up way better numbers
January 6th, 2020 at 4:27 PM ^
I forgot Daniel Jones...
24 TDs to 12 INTs, 61.9% Comp, 6.6 YPA, 87.7 Rating.
January 6th, 2020 at 4:52 PM ^
I mean I agree with you, Haskins didn't light the world on fire. But disappointing is different than "objectively terrible." He was objectively meh. I don't think Haskins did anything to make you think he is a long term starter. But again, as I said, he didn't do anything to make you think that he isn't either.
I do think that if you throw away Haskins' first two appearances, where he had no practice reps and no game prep, his numbers skew a lot better. His completion percentage rises up to 60% and his TD:INT ratio improves to 7:3 instead of 7:7. His YPA also improves slightly to 6.77. He's basically Drew Lock.
At the end of the day, wouldn't you expect Haskins to have worse numbers than Murray and Jones? Both were drafted over him. Minshew Mania was fun for a bit, then he got benched, then he was forced to play again due to injury. Would you rather have Minshew or Haskins? I don't know either way. I do know that Minshew got a lot more time to play. But he also got benched.
I do think you're glossing over the fact that Haskins' coach was fired mid-season and the Redskins are objectively the most dysfunctional franchise among the teams we're comparing up there.
I have no confidence that Haskins will be "the guy." But you can't make an affirmative statement on him yet.
January 7th, 2020 at 6:58 AM ^
You know what other rookie looked meh when pressed into the starter's role straight out of college? John Elway. Elway's first couple of seasons with the Broncos were abysmal. There aren't many college QBs who can step into a starting role right away and turn a team around.
January 6th, 2020 at 4:39 PM ^
Objective - in a way that is not influenced by personal feelings or opinions.
Terrible - extremely or distressingly bad or serious.
You're trying to counteract his point by bringing in subjective reasoning as to why his stats were bad? Compare his stats objectively to the statistics of other first round QBs in the first round of the last draft. You will see they are extremely or distressingly bad. The excuses you gave for his season are merely subjective. "IDK, I see" makes your whole point subjective.
His stats compared to the other QBs drafted in the 1st round are very disappointing. No one is putting a nail in any coffin, we are merely discussing his rookie season.
Who cares if Fields is drafted 1st, 2nd, or 200th. The OP is about NFL postseason wins, getting drafted into the NFL doesn't add anything to that.
January 6th, 2020 at 4:44 PM ^
This guy gets it...Especially when the excuses he gave apply the pretty much all of the rookie QBs in this class. None were on a good team, but he was still toward the bottom of the group in every category.
January 6th, 2020 at 5:09 PM ^
I think it's also important to remember the systems here. Murray played in basically the same system and has a coach who designed the system specifically for him. Minshew played for Leach and has thrown every single route known to man. Lock threw basically every down in school. Jones is an unknown so I can't really comment on that. Haskins had the disadvantage of playing with A TON of talented receivers. I think the talent is obviously there, he's just was used to his first read popping open all the time and having receivers that were FAR better than the competition. Now he has maybe one legit threat and a sieve for an Oline (missing williams and Scherff is more of a run blocker). Those are objective points, and I genuinely think he will be a very good player shortly
January 6th, 2020 at 5:24 PM ^
but haskins' stats weren't extremely bad, especially his stats as a starter, and that's the point.
and i wasn't ever talking to the op, i was talking to the guy who talked about haskins, and opined that fields would be just as bad. for the record, i think fields is already better than haskins, and will be better in the nfl as well.
January 6th, 2020 at 3:51 PM ^
But but but Brady! That'll teach those OSU fans. It still doesn't lessen the sting of the football team's perennial lack of success against OSU
January 6th, 2020 at 3:53 PM ^
Has it somehow given us a recruiting advantage? Then why is it relevant? I would like to see Michigan QBs win HERE.
January 6th, 2020 at 3:54 PM ^
Too bad those great QBs can't come back to college to beat OSU because our current ones sure haven't been able to.
January 6th, 2020 at 4:00 PM ^
Ok ...glad it cheered you up a bit, probably gonna put some pep in your step all week.
January 6th, 2020 at 4:03 PM ^
I'm sorry, but this is a stupid post. Just beat OSU. Compare Brady, by himself to every other school in the country, and it will look pretty damn good.
January 6th, 2020 at 6:31 PM ^
Compare Brady to college kids? Try comparing him to every NFL QB... oh, wait, he still looks good.
January 6th, 2020 at 4:07 PM ^
Once they start counting NFL stats for college, this will be awesome.
January 6th, 2020 at 4:08 PM ^
I just saw that CJ Shroud picked OSU. sucks.
January 6th, 2020 at 5:22 PM ^
CJ the shroud of turin
January 6th, 2020 at 4:15 PM ^
Dang this post frustrates the hell out of me. We need to get back to beating osu.
January 6th, 2020 at 4:15 PM ^
Flexing about what guys did in nfl is one step below flexing about a school being ranked higher in meaningless shit in a football rivalry that you only talk about it because your team losses the actual game.
January 6th, 2020 at 4:40 PM ^
It's flexing, but it also points out the difference in recruiting philosophies of the two teams in question. UM has always (or at least tried to) stuck to recruiting prototypical QBs. OSU has evolved and recruited QBs who are fit for the college games that OSU play. Their world-beating college QBs are good enough to be drafted in the NFL. That's the siren song for the top-level college QBs. Get to Columbus, showcase your talent and get to NFL. Whether they succeed there is a different story.
This data is also telling in that the last "successful" Michigan QB left college in 2008!
January 6th, 2020 at 4:42 PM ^
Agreed, sort of. This OP is like the wimp whispering to his friends about his nicer hairstyle than the bully who kicks his ass every year. Our ass is getting kicked. Do something about that. No one cares about our NFL QBs relative to theirs. Grasp another straw.
January 6th, 2020 at 10:05 PM ^
I took the OP's post as a roundabout way of wondering how OSU keeps getting elite QB recruits. I mean, sure, you'll have a bunch of success in college. But for true blue chip QB recruits, the goal of college is to prep them for the highest level.
And, despite being historically great for the better part of two decades, OSU's QBs have been universal failures in the NFL.
January 6th, 2020 at 4:37 PM ^
All you need to see is how in their recent NC year they plugged in their second string who was better than their first string, and then their third string who was better than both of them, and won the NC. This is a testament to the fact that the OSU system is ridiculous, and built to make QB decisions relatively simple relative to the pro style complexities with shaky lines we've been charging our QBs with prior to Gattis.
I genuinely think UM is finally elite on offense with Gattis, but the talent gaps kill us at various positions, this year Shea's obscene inconsistency. Next year McCaff will likely be more accurate, but the line will likely take a step back from this year.
January 6th, 2020 at 4:43 PM ^
Really looking forward to those “Michigan Football: More NFL QB playoff wins than Ohio State” T-shirts and mugs.
January 6th, 2020 at 5:04 PM ^
Nah, No need. We have more wins, more head-to-head wins, higher winning percentage, more B1G championships, and more national championships. At least osu leads us in scandals!
January 6th, 2020 at 6:34 PM ^
If the world ended today, we could polish that trophy in Heaven for all of eternity.
January 6th, 2020 at 6:40 PM ^
We lost the winning percentage to OSU the day we lost to them.
Can't wait until we lose most wins and wins in the series in 7 years.
January 6th, 2020 at 6:56 PM ^
Fortunately, their loss to Clemson was not only a classic choke job, it put them back where they belong, behind us in winning percentage (and yes, that includes our loss to Alabama)
Maybe OSU will catch up to us in these important categories in your lifetime, but I would not count on it. And I, as a Michigan fan, will enjoy every minute of our lead. Sorry that you buckeye fans have to wait so long to (maybe) catch up. Good luck with that!
January 6th, 2020 at 7:10 PM ^
Well we're 7-18 against them in my lifetime, so the chances aren't looking too good.
January 6th, 2020 at 7:42 PM ^
Touché - sorry about your depressing fan existence!
January 6th, 2020 at 8:51 PM ^
Yeah but I have this crazy personality trait of enjoying victories over our arch rival more when I’ve actually been alive to experience them.
Kind of hard the psyched about the whupping the 1948 squad laid on OSU en route to the NC when I’ve seen them beat us 17 of the last 19 years.
January 6th, 2020 at 9:27 PM ^
How's that looking since WWII?
January 6th, 2020 at 4:46 PM ^
Oklahoma’s QBs have been similarly unsuccessful in the NFL.
January 6th, 2020 at 5:13 PM ^
January 6th, 2020 at 5:17 PM ^
Ah if only I gave two shits about the NFL I'd be living on easy street.
January 6th, 2020 at 5:25 PM ^
If you wanna go back to feeling shitty do a RB comparison.