National impact of Mel Tucker contract on college football
It looks like Tucker will be paid in excess of $5 million a year, placing him around #10 in coaches pay nationally- ahead of people like Ryan Day, David Shaw and Chris Peterson.
For a 5-7 lifetime record.
Do you think ADs across the nation are waking up to this news with a “WTF did you just do Sparty?” Thought?
February 12th, 2020 at 7:58 AM ^
ADs have been asking that question of MSU for many many years
February 12th, 2020 at 8:00 AM ^
I think they realize the tire fire at State isn't the same as their own school.
February 12th, 2020 at 12:12 PM ^
A lot of programs looking for coaches are tire fires lacking leverage. This will drive the market further upward.
February 12th, 2020 at 3:29 PM ^
So, with the $4.3 million they just gave up to Mork, plus another million for Mork to do a tag team ethics class with Lou Simmons, plus this $5 million for Mel, MSU will be paying about $3.5 million per victory next season.
Add in several hundred million going out to the Nassar victims...
Is it time for the Governor to step in here?
February 12th, 2020 at 5:00 PM ^
I thought I saw a $3 M Colorado buyout clause too. Plus the increase in pay to assistants.
February 12th, 2020 at 8:09 AM ^
Hey, Brady Hoke had a career losing record when he came here, and I think we can all agree that he was worth every penny.
February 12th, 2020 at 8:48 AM ^
Got us a W against O$U.
February 12th, 2020 at 9:35 AM ^
For all the Hoke stuff that was terrible, getting the team up for OSU was not one of them. They always seemed to somehow punch above their weight class against OSU, something that outside of 2017 has been sorely lacking with Harbaugh.
February 12th, 2020 at 9:51 AM ^
Was because Hoke recruited Ohio very well. Went toe to toe with OSU and got players.
February 12th, 2020 at 3:31 PM ^
Yeah I don’t know that this was the reason. IIRC The only year Hoke beat OSU was his first year in 2011 when he had Denard and all of RR’s recruits. Out of the next three games, all were losses, 2 were close, one was not. He got some great players out of Ohio but it didn’t translate to wins.
February 13th, 2020 at 12:29 AM ^
Harbaugh's best team has been with Hoke players or mostly Hoke players.
February 12th, 2020 at 6:03 PM ^
Hoke really turned the tide in the rivalry, selling jerseys in Ohio was the start
February 12th, 2020 at 11:11 AM ^
A cynic (like me) might argue that they did well because OSU (sensing that they were up against a clearly less-talented team and coach) let their guard down a little bit.
I'll never cease to be amazed by the "put most of the recruiting chips on Ohio" and "Coach X is losing because he doesn't emphasize / understand the rivalry" crowds.
February 12th, 2020 at 12:05 PM ^
Maybe, but:
- I find it hard to believe an Urban Meyer OSU team, that spends the entire off season and dedicates practice time every week during the season obsessing on beating Michigan, would come into The Game letting their guard down much.
- One time is an exception, 4 years in a row is a trend, and the subsequent Harbaugh years reinforce it, that UM played better against OSU under Hoke. Even in 2014 it was 14 - 14 at half time, with a 5 - 6 UM team, in Columbus. If you'll remember, 2014 is the year that OSU went on to destroy 'Bama in the playoffs, that was a fantastic OSU team.
Could letting their guard down impact their performances? Sure. But, given the entirety of the context, I don't believe it was a significant factor.
February 12th, 2020 at 1:06 PM ^
Not to be that guy, but OSU beat 'Bama in the semifinal. The championship game was vs. Oregon.
February 12th, 2020 at 1:26 PM ^
Good catch! Corrected.
February 12th, 2020 at 1:17 PM ^
How can you not think some coaches just don't understand how to prepare a team for a rivalry game?
Cooper had teams come into the game 9-0-1, 11-0, 10-0, and 9-1 and lost every single time. That's very obvious a trend.
Harbaugh and players don't talk about how much they want to beat OSU and it very obviously shows on gameday.
February 12th, 2020 at 12:50 PM ^
That's one thing I will never knock Hoke for. He was very public with how he felt about OSU and how important that game was. His teams may have been woefully unprepared to face almost everyone else on the schedule, but they sure showed up to play what were supposedly vastly superior OSU teams.
Hoke may have had a lot of flaws during his tenure at Michigan, but emphasizing the need to beat OSU and getting his team prepared to play that game was never one of them. I went into 2013 and 2014 assuming Michigan would get run off the field by halftime. Both games came down to the fourth quarter.
February 12th, 2020 at 9:47 AM ^
Brady Hoke also inherited horrible programs at Ball State and SDSU and left them in much better shape when he left. Now...at Michigan....umm...at least he recruited a large portion of the schools NFL presence.
February 12th, 2020 at 9:51 AM ^
Ball State was bad again after Hoke left, though.
It's a hard place to win consistently, though, and not just because it's in the MAC. There's a reason for that--I've been to Muncie.
February 12th, 2020 at 11:14 AM ^
Is that why Hoke tried to drink every beer in Muncie when he was a student?
February 12th, 2020 at 10:28 AM ^
Completely agree. Sure, it's fun to poke fun, but the Hoke hire is nothing at all like the Tucker hire.
Hoke at least had some success at every stop - including Michigan, where he at least started 11-2 and recruited pretty well. He's also been a head coach for a lot of years.
Mel Tucker has 17 games under his belt as head coach, including a 2-3 record as interim head coach of the Jax Jags in 2011. To his credit, he's at least been a DC at a lot of places in college and the NFL.
February 12th, 2020 at 10:28 AM ^
Completely agree. Sure, it's fun to poke fun, but the Hoke hire is nothing at all like the Tucker hire.
Hoke at least had some success at every stop - including Michigan, where he at least started 11-2 and recruited pretty well. He's also been a head coach for a lot of years.
Mel Tucker has 17 games under his belt as head coach, including a 2-3 record as interim head coach of the Jax Jags in 2011. To his credit, he's at least been a DC at a lot of places in college and the NFL.
February 12th, 2020 at 11:00 AM ^
Largely false.
Ball St. all time: 48.8%
Ball St. under Bill Lynch (Hoke predecessor): 37-53, 41.1%
Ball St. under Brady Hoke: 30-39, 43.4%
Ball St. since Hoke: 40.3%
Hoke's predecessor was Bill Lynch, and his last 3 seasons at Ball State were:
5-6
5-6
6-6
Hoke went:
4-8
2-9
4-7
5-6
7-6
12-1
...and the two seasons after Hoke left, with a successor from his staff:
2-10
4-8
Hoke was worse than the historic average at Ball St., was statistically equivalent to his predecessor, and the team was worse after he left.
February 12th, 2020 at 11:27 AM ^
One lightning-in-a-bottle year can alter perception of your fan base. Ask Lloyd Carr.
February 12th, 2020 at 12:06 PM ^
Carr won 75% of his games over 13 years, so I'm not sure that's a great comparison.
February 12th, 2020 at 1:08 PM ^
I suggest looking at the strength of schedule and the undefeated season at Ball State. You might look at margin of defeat at SDSU against ranked opponents (generally less than 7) and he rarely lost to unranked opponents.
Two biggest factors after HC are always QB and the budget for assistants.
February 12th, 2020 at 11:41 AM ^
"Brady Hoke also inherited horrible programs at Ball State ... and left them in much better shape"
A large part of the justification for David Brandon's hiring of Hoke was the entirely erroneous perception that Hoke had "turned around" a terrible program at Ball State: "The reason I wanted him to be prominent in this process was simply the combination of turning around two programs..."
The actual record on the field that Hoke accumulated at BSU should have given Brandon pause.
Bill Lynch was Hoke's predecessor at Ball St. His final four seasons were 0-11, 5-6, 5-6, and 6-6. Obviously the 0-11 was a catastrophe, but he managed to get BSU back to low mediocrity over the final three, going 4-4 in conference play in those years.
Brady Hoke takes over in 2003 to rescue the program that Lynch had done so poorly at.
Hoke's rescue job:
2003: 4-8 (3-5 in conference)
2004: 2-9 (2-6)
2005: 4-7 (4-4)
2006: 5-7 (5-3)
2007: 7-6 (5-2)
2008: 12-1 (8-0)
So "rescuing" Ball State from the terrible state it was in under Bill Lynch required three seasons before Hoke even matched the conference record of Lynch's final three years, and it took five seasons before Hoke exceeded the win total of Lynch's final season of 6-6.
The 12-1 season was great and Hoke deserves full credit, but he didn't build anything self-sustaining—as soon as he left, the program cratered, going 2-10 and 4-8 under his hand-picked successor Stan Parrish. That's not leaving Ball St in "much better shape."
*Eh, I should have seen Pescadero's post above and saved myself the time.
February 12th, 2020 at 2:51 PM ^
Hoke took Ball State to the best record in school history, took SDSU to the best record in 25 years, and UM to one of its best records in the last 20 years. And he did it while inheriting the 108th defense in the country, plus an offensive line roster that included a grand total of one signee in 2010 and three in 2011, one of whom was Tony Posada who quit football altogether before fall camp ended. Brian faults Carr for RichRod's offensive line, but he doesn't attribute any of the offense's problems at the end of the Hoke era to the mess RichRod left behind. Hoke failed, so call it like it is, but the amount of crap he gets always strikes me as disproportionate to the job he did compared to RichRod. RichRod peaked at 3-5 in the conference with two of those wins being a coin flip. He won six conference games in three years. It's hard to imagine anyone doing a worse job than that, and yet, there's still some love here from the blog's proprietor.
February 12th, 2020 at 10:27 AM ^
Hoke had some good success at Ball State and SDSU. He inherited a tire fire from Rich Rod and proceeded to stock it with NFL talent. He went 11-2 his first year with a bowl win and also beat OSU one time. He did some good things at Michigan and he left a pretty "full cupboard" of NFL talent for Harbaugh to work with.
February 12th, 2020 at 3:23 PM ^
A Sparty thread turns into a discussion about Hoke.
I tell ya, they get no respekt!
February 12th, 2020 at 8:21 AM ^
Sparty didn't have a choice but to overpay. Mork left their program in a smoldering heap and if they don't pay out the nose nobody with a pulse would consider working there.
Tucker will be sorry he took this job I suspect.
February 12th, 2020 at 8:59 AM ^
Totally agree that given the circumstances Sparty at this point had no choice but to overpay.
February 12th, 2020 at 11:05 AM ^
I enjoy that one narrative seems to be “well for the circumstances this is a good hire”. Sure, but those circumstances are insane. Think about what circumstances make a guy with 1 year of HC experience and a 5-7 record a good hire. Think about what circumstances make paying that guy $6M and giving him another $6M for staff. Sparty royally fucked themselves into a corner here.
It’s hard to even speculate on Tucker because there’s so little data on him. His Colorado team underperformed given offensive talent in a bad conference. The defenses he worked on at Bama and Georgia were good, but they have obscene talent. The defense he worked on with the Bears was terrible, but coaching in the NFL and coaching in college are different beasts.
February 12th, 2020 at 9:04 AM ^
The guy to keep on eye on right now is Ryan Day. He is making 4.5 MM at OSU and there were a lot of NFL rumblings last year that will only get louder if he has another great season. OSU has to pony up, IMO, pretty quick or run the risk of losing him because aint no way in hell he's going he's going to accept sitting in 7th or 8th place salary-wise while kicking the rest of the B1G ass on the field.
February 12th, 2020 at 9:22 AM ^
I am just not sure about the Tucker deal yet. Board of Trustees has not approved it, set to meet at 3 PM today. It just may upset the apple cart a little bit too much. In terms of "supply and demand" basic principles, this would appear to be way too much of an outlier. The guys has been a coach for one year and was pretty bad and they are going to make him a Top 10 paid coach at a program with an 8-4 cap? To do what? Go 8-4? You pay $5.2 million dollars to a coach because he is a proven commodity and you have immediate expectations, but to spend $5.2 million per year on somewhat of a hail mary? $1 million more that Mork was making, $1 million more than Izzo makes? And paying a coach that much is going to come with the it the expectation of new facilities, renovations, upgrades, no indication that is in the works at MSU. I will believe this deal as reported gets done when it is announced as done. I am not convinced yet.
February 12th, 2020 at 9:30 AM ^
If Beekman didn't have the BoT sign off on this before it came out publicly I would be blown away, or not the least bit surprised since it would make the Sparty No! hall of fame. But realistically I'm sure it will get done since the trustees are already getting dragged through the coals by that fan base, no way they double down. They'll approve the deal and probably take the credit for making it happen.
February 12th, 2020 at 10:35 AM ^
I think you are correct, but I will never say “no way they double down” in regards to their BOT reacting to questionable decisions
February 12th, 2020 at 9:30 AM ^
It's hazard pay. MSU clearly didn't want to promote Tressel, the place is a shit hole, and they needed someone now. Of course they're going to need to overpay.
February 12th, 2020 at 9:33 AM ^
Tucker put himself in a very precarious position already by flip flopping once...
February 12th, 2020 at 9:39 AM ^
For it to happen the way it did, I would believe the BoT has given their blessings. They can only look more ridiculous if they reject it now. This will get approved.
February 12th, 2020 at 9:47 AM ^
The Michigan State Boar of Trustees has absolutely no issue at all with looking ridiculous. Those guys want to be the story. I seriously would not put it passed them to sabotage this.
And there is overpaying and then there is this. 5.2 for Fickell would have been overpaying. There is not quite a word for what this is. Lunacy.
February 12th, 2020 at 10:11 AM ^
I hate to be blunt about this, but Tucker is black and that means Brianna Scott and Joel Ferguson will be 100% for the hire. There won't be too much trouble getting BOT support.
February 12th, 2020 at 10:25 AM ^
They pushed for a minority candidate.
February 12th, 2020 at 9:58 AM ^
It's too early to say that Mel Tucker is a bad coach.
Unproven? Hell yes. Could he be a bad coach? Sure. Do I hope he is? Yes, but I don't have enough information yet.
February 12th, 2020 at 11:02 AM ^
He could be a good coach and still fail at MSU -- it's a crazy situation. Honestly, they really need a complete restart and to have a few super shitty seasons because that's the whole problem in the first place. That the footballs team onfield succes is more important than anything else, even the safety of students.
For them to throw $5M in a massive overpayment because they can't fathom not doing everything they can to win football games shows they haven't learned anything from the Nasser scandal or the football teams scandals.
After the Fab 5 our basketball team spent over a decade in purgatory over a few broke ass college students taking some money. At MSU they're dealing with rape coverups and they can't even imagine one football season with an interim/acting HC for the sake of cleaning up the mess. It's actually really sad.
February 12th, 2020 at 11:22 AM ^
Entirely this. Remember, Nick Saban couldnt make MSU elite.
February 12th, 2020 at 10:21 AM ^
He'll be approved, because the 2 power brokers on MSU's BOT wanted a minority candidate and they got him.
February 12th, 2020 at 11:36 AM ^
Did I just read they moved the meeting back to 5 PM? Paying the guy more than Izzo isn't going to sit well. He's still there, and he's proven, over and over and over. I know it's football vs. basketball salaries, but still. Seems like Tucker took advantage of a tire fire coaching search and now MSU looks like they've been had.
February 12th, 2020 at 11:53 AM ^
Yeah.... I mean, is it likely they approve it based on what has been reported? Probably, but I just don't know. It just "does not add up," literally. The number is now being reported at 5.5 million dollars? That is crazy. That is elite money. He is not an elite coach and they are not an elite program. Paying somebody Saban money to come in and be the coach while they suck isn't going to change that. Do they realize it is a minimum of 3 years before they are actually competing in the East if everything goes right? Are they just realizing that now?
Dear god. If they lose Tucker this is going to be a 30 for 30.