Michigan RB's

Submitted by Sten Carlson on

Am I the only one who finds it odd that teams all over the nation, and even some of the historically middle/lower B10 teams, have been able to recruit/develop excellent RB's, yet Michigan hasn't had one since 2007?

Minnesota had Cobb, Indiana had Colman, and teams like Wisconsin, MSU, and OSU have had a steady stream of good to great RB's.

I love Smith's heart and his abilitiy to generate YAC, but it seems his vision and speed are nowhere near up to the standard for the position.  I know that some of this -- ok a lot of this -- falls upon the OL, but not ALL of it is, as was illustrated by Drake Johnson's ability to actually generate a running attack.  Yes, when he was starting the OL was improving, but there has to be more to it than that, no?

Remember when Denard would shred teams on the ground -- despite a "weak OL" -- and nobody else could gain any yards?  Yes, Denard was a special runner, a "once-in-a-decade talent," but he is proof that the holes were there.

My point?  I don't know.  Maybe it's to point the finger at Fred Jackson, and to say that he completely lost his ability to judge RB talent -- although he was pretty high on Thomas Rawls who became a new man once he left Ann Arbor.  Or maybe it's to vent my frustration concerning a position which other teams seem to have no trouble finding and developing talent, yet Michigan seems incapable of late.  Heck, that Juco transfer RB that Utah threw in for a carry or two look significantly better than anyone on Michigan's roster currently.

I just watch other programs from FCS to P5 run the ball think how nice it would be to have a RB that actually had some speed (doesn't have to be Ty Wheatley 2.0, just normal P5 starting RB speed), some quickness (doesn't have to Barry Sanders 2.0, just normal P5 starting RB quicks), some vision (not Laveon Bell vison, normal P5 starting RB vision), and some ability to burst through a hole -- no matter how infrequently they might appear.  I think that Harbaugh and Co, are one it, and this is a merely a hangover from the down times of late.

About last night:

100% different "feel" to the team from an organizational standpoint -- no "derps," no clock issues, no WTF?!? -- just too many costly mistakes. 

Guys used to go insane when Hoke would say, "we didn't execute ..." and would point to all the "little basic things" (like counting to 11) that his teams couldn't do.  Last night was a real "we didn't execute ..." game.  Guys were in position to make plays, they just didn't.  The game was very winnable, and I for one am pleased that we can already see significant improvement in the preparedness and organization of the team.

I've not posted anything for a long time, so I apologize for the rambling.  Any thoughts?

Go Blue!

Dawkins

September 4th, 2015 at 3:02 PM ^

What you saw out of the RBs yesterday wasn't  even representative of what they did last year. It's too small of a sample size to judge them on. Last year, Smith's ypc was 4.8, Green's was 5.7, and Johnson's (who only played against Big Ten teams) was 6.0. Those are pretty reasonable numbers. Had they performed like that yesterday, you wouldn't be questioning it. You just caught them on a bad day. Now, if they finish the season at 2.8/3.0 ypc, then you'd have a legit argument.  

On a side note, it really pisses me off that Mike Weber was duped into siging with OSU. He could be starting for us this year. At OSU, he could easily end up burried on the depth chart for 4 years just like what happened to Dunn. 

Casanova

September 4th, 2015 at 3:46 PM ^

that makes me sad for some reason. Especially when you consider Braxton Miller started his career like 1-7. A team so talented that a guy who went 27-1 after his freshman year is moved to wide receiver. WTF. How is that F*CKING possible?! I know, we have to be patient but this sucks.

BornSinner

September 4th, 2015 at 3:52 PM ^

I try not to think about OSU and the fact that Urban Meyer has lost a total of 3 games in his 3 years there...

Seeing that and reading Endzone is making me rip my hair out in frustration at all the corporate/bureacratic stupidity that has cost Michigan so much this past decade. 

But it has also made me a fan of Bill Martin, especially when he essentially said fuck you to Dave Brandon and walked onto the field not giving a fuck about whether he had pregame passes or not bahahaha. 

Casanova

September 4th, 2015 at 4:30 PM ^

I'm sorry but your thesis doesn't hold water. Their coach has a ridiculous .800 winning percentage vs SEC competition. I think with their recruiting and coaching. They would be near the top of the SEC every year. OSU beat Alabama Wisconsin beat Auburn Indiana beat The eventual SEC east champ Missouri. (LOL) I hate OSU but this "real team" myth was killed in last years bowl season.

bluestaffah

September 4th, 2015 at 4:16 PM ^

It starts with him being a poor quarterback overall. He survived on athletic ability only, not refined QB skills and a system that compensates his lack thereof. Unfortunately Denard was the same and excelled in that type of system also.

The biggest difference between Michigan and OSU over the last decade has been consistency. Meyer and Tressel run a spread type system on offence and look what happened with all that talent when Fickell was the coach. Everything was disrupted and it was a fiasco. M went through two 180 degree turns in offensive philosphy...Carr to Rich Rod and RR to Hoke. Luckily we are not pulling another with Harbaugh. This will lead to results much faster and as the wins come the cupboard will no doubt be just as full as OSU.

Please get off the ledge...no reason to be there at all! The future is bright.

#GoBlue

Tuebor

September 4th, 2015 at 4:27 PM ^

I'm not on the ledge. I'm recognizing the stockpile of talent in Columbus.  Miller was never going to be an all Pro QB but for college football he was the best QB in the conference for 2 years.  And Denard Robinson was here for one of those years. 

 

I get that QB in college is a lot different than QB in the NFL but OSU has had fantastic QBs for the last 10 years.  Smith, Pryor, Miller, and now Jones/Barrett. 

bluestaffah

September 4th, 2015 at 11:56 PM ^

my reply was to Casanova and his Braxton Miller post. Tressel ran a spread type offence. He did not run a spread and shread but the style was there, which is why none and I mean none of them have been NFL quality QB's. They were athletic and could beat you more than one way, or else there record would be quite different over the last 10 years. My intention is not to beat anyone up over this but it is the truth. They have been creating mismatches on defense through the use of space for along time.

We would have had and did have some pretty good QB's over the last 10 years. Our problem was fitting square pegs into round holes for five of those, well maybe 8, years. Denard was defintiely a system guy. Tate could have been pretty special because he really did have the it ( I can win any time I want, just didn't have some of the other tools ), had RR  committed fully to him. Who knows how that would have turned out...we know what happened with Shoelace. Gardner, well, who knows.

UMxWolverines

September 4th, 2015 at 5:15 PM ^

Trrssel ran spread elements in his offense. Why did he do it? To maximize guys like Troy Smith and Terrelle Pryor's athletic ability. PLUS we had always had trouble with those type of offenses and of course they beat us every year. That's a big reason why Tressel got such a streak going on us...he adapted while Lloyd ran the same old same old offense until his last game of his career.

lilpenny1316

September 4th, 2015 at 6:37 PM ^

Ohio State was running those spread sets with mobile QBs.  We were not.  It's an extra element to the offense that we don't offer.  Tressel started with Krenzel, who was not very mobile and they ran a very conservative offense.  Once he had the QB to spread things out with, he adapted.

bluestaffah

September 5th, 2015 at 12:05 AM ^

That doesnt necessarily mean a spread offence. The Oilers used to use that set quite a bit and it was a Run and Shoot and not a spread and the Bills used the K-Gun. Lloyd was doing niether of those two things. He ran a run first offense, which is what a spread offense is, first and foremost.

andrewgr

September 4th, 2015 at 4:40 PM ^

The OSU staff likes Weber a lot.  If he didn't tear his miniscus, he would have received playing time in the opener.  If he gets healthy by the start of the conference season, he'll get playing time; if not, obviously he'll redshirt.

Anything could happen, but at this point in time, he is the heir presumptive to be the starting RB next year.  He's not buried on the depth chart.

alum96

September 4th, 2015 at 3:42 PM ^

Be careful with Green's YPC

I split it out a month ago and it was something like 8 ypc vs baby seals and 3 vs real teams. 

I agree with the OP that somehow so many teams have effective 3 stars and our 4 stars all have such a major fault -1 is too slow, 1 falls over if you breath on him, 1 doesnt have vision. These are basic things in a running back evaluation and its boggling we somehow picked all the guys thhe recruitnicks missed on.

To that end our best guy is a 2 star.

At this point whomever Wisconsin offers UM should offer.

991GT3

September 4th, 2015 at 4:32 PM ^

of our running backs there is a fix. Its be done before when a team is faced with mediocre RB's.

LIne them up further back so they have more time to allow the holes to open or survey the line for openings. What we are witnessing is are our RB's are given instructions to run to where the hole is suppose to be. They are not talented enough to make split second adjustments.

 The fourth down and two play exemplifies their deficiency. Smith a hard runner tried to bull doze his way to get the two yards when a qucik slide to the outside would have given him plenty of room to gain the yardage. This is college ball with big defensive lineman. They do not get pushed back by running backs.

Sten Carlson

September 4th, 2015 at 9:18 PM ^

C'mon Yost, that's a silly unprovable guarantee. Drake's play at the end of last season kinda throws your premise out the window. I'm not saying the OL are world beaters, but neither were IU's & Minn's and Coleman had 2k yards in '14 and Cobb had 1,200 in '13 and 1,600 in '14. Both averaged 100+ and had double digit TD's. Would they have gained those numbers with Michigan's OL? Who knows? I doubt it, but since we're making baseless speculations, I'd say both gain more than Greene and Smith if only because of their vision and speed. I'm just wondering how RB's like those two end up at IU and Minn and not Michigan. I get why Elliot, Bell, and the couple of Wisconsin RB's ended up where they did, but not those two in particular.

Sten Carlson

September 5th, 2015 at 9:36 AM ^

First off, look at Alum 96's post above -- it's very informative and germain to our specific discussion. 

The first game that Drake got double digit carries was versus IU -- coming off the bench he went 16 for 122 yards.  I remember distinctly this board going nuts with guys screaming, "where the hell has this guy been all season?!?"  People were using his performace to fuel their disgust with Hoke and his inability to put the proper players on the field.  I would suspect it had more to do with coming back from injury, but that not really pertinent here.

Drake's stat elicited this kind of response because the Michigan running game (with Green and Smith) had been so bad against anyone but the softest opponents on the schedule (as Alum 96 aptly pointed out), and all of a sudden we had a guy who tore through an opposeing defense.  Granted, it was only IU, but the "the OL is terrible" meme had developed a crack.

Then against Maryland, he went 14 for 94 and it seemed to confirm that the OL could, in fact, open holes and maybe it was the RB's that weren't able to hit them.  Then NW brought us back down to earth a bit, and we were again wondering if the we'd ever have a consistent running game.

Then came the OSU game with Drake going 15 for 74 and 2 TD's before getting hurt against the eventual National Champs.  Many people in here believe that if Drake stays healthy we have a much better chance of winning that game.  Did you notice how the production on the ground went down immeditately upon Drake's injury?  What's more likely, that the OL suddenly lost it's ability to block against a pretty good OSU DL, or that the RB who had the quicks, speed, and vision to exploit those blocks was injured?

The sample size is small, I will grant you that.  But I think most people in here would agree that something changed when Drake started running the ball.  Was that something the OL or the RB?  It's probably a combination of the two as it appeared the OL was getting better.  But your premise that it's simply ALL the OL's suckitude seems off when the Drake Johnson data is injected into the equation.

I suppose the only way we'll find out for sure is when Drake is back in the line up.

 

carlos spicywiener

September 4th, 2015 at 3:00 PM ^

lack of vision by RBs in their 3rd year in the program is maddening its like the mike hart years all over again. one competent, overachieving, 3 star rb is the only useful option among a bunch of 4 and 5 star busts. except the one rb, drake, keeps tearing his acl

Sten Carlson

September 4th, 2015 at 3:08 PM ^

I agree 100% with this.   However, a lot of that can be attributed to the scheme transitions the program went through -- i.e., Denard under RR for 4 years, then Devin for 4 years might have been completely different.  Further, I think that changes this year as I think Rudock develops significantly and O'Korn will be the next great one at Michigan.

RB's are RB's no?  SEC, Pac12, Big 12, and even Mountain West and MAC squads all seem to get a fast guy who can cut, run, and make plays.  But not us. 

I hate sounding like a whiner, but damn!

Leonhall

September 4th, 2015 at 3:02 PM ^

so simple, they have had poor coaching for awhile. Green and Smith were definitely over ranked, Rich-Rod never could find one either. I don't have an answer.

Dawkins

September 4th, 2015 at 3:06 PM ^

to be fair, Brandon Minor was pretty good when he was healthy. He was recruited by Carr but he put up all his numbers under Rich Rod. But yeah, Mike Hart was our last 1,000-yard RB.