Michigan ran a triple option on Saturday
I might be missing discussion on this, but let's look at it.
I have long speculated (perhaps a bit cynically) that JJ would reduce his zone read keeps once he locks down the starting job because the three previous QBs all stopped being regular runners as they established themselves as starters under Harbaugh. There was no zone read game prior to Shea, of course. And on Saturday there appeared to be a couple of instances where JJ should have kept the ball and handed off instead.
So JJ seems to be handing off at the wrong moments in the play Due highlighted here. Was this a mistake... or is the offensive staff discouraging him from keeping?
Well, my prejudice would incline me to the latter explanation... but the evidence on the field points to something else.
Look at the top of the screen.It's an unusual, unbalanced formation with two WRs on the LOS to (barely) make a legal formation. AJ Henning flares and looks back at JJ.
It's not just an RPO. The LT deliberately charges right past the EMLOS, leaving him unblocked.
It's not just a zone read. There's active screen pass action with a receiver clearly looking for the ball.
This is a triple option.
Read the EMLOS. Then read the field and keep or throw the screen.
And big yards were available. This play was built to pick up a chunk, and it was built for JJ to make reads. Now, that formation is a big tip, so they can't run this often without varying the look, but it's a really cool idea. I hope they can execute down the road.
September 26th, 2022 at 8:54 PM ^
Ugh. Biffed the embed.
September 27th, 2022 at 9:59 AM ^
This is an illegal formation, right? 5 men in the backfield.
Or are Bell/Henning covered and not eligible?
September 27th, 2022 at 11:07 AM ^
The idea is that Bell is on the LOS and covered up, making him ineligible, with Trente Jones an eligible receiver on the right side. You can see from the video that the receiver alignment is just a hair vague, but it was close enough, at least for this ref crew.
September 27th, 2022 at 11:40 AM ^
To me it looks like CJ's heel is on the 47, even with Hayes who is almost a yard back from the Center (and really pushing that limit).
Bell and Henning both look to have their toe on the 47. If Bell is covered, I'd say Henning is too. Bell should probably move up a smidge and Henning back to avoid a flag. But I wonder if the formation is designed to be intentionally confusing so the DBs are less clear on who is eligible/blocking.
September 27th, 2022 at 12:19 PM ^
Illegal formation - arguably only 5 on the LOS depending on CJ at the top. Just need an extra second or two earlier to see if the WRs motioned on or off LOS to the line judge, but 3 of them are clearly off LOS in alignment.
Assuming any two of the WRs at the top are on the LOS to make it a legal formation, the downfield release by the LT and the WRs would negate a pass option unless AJ catches it behind the LOS. Obviously JJ could use AJ as a decoy and carry out a run.
Frankly, I would bet most officials would struggle with the formation and execution because it is so quirky. I guess the play design is brilliant if they can get away with 5 on the LOS!
September 26th, 2022 at 9:11 PM ^
JJ missed it and knew once Corum was tackled.
It’s such a strange miss read because Henning is running forever on this play with the blocking all out front and the defense undermanned outside.
He didn’t even need to worry about the edge read and getting hit because the pass would have been right out.
It seems like that would have been visible pre snap.
September 26th, 2022 at 9:15 PM ^
Wow, great post OP. And that hyperlink back to Shea really brought back some memories.
I remember the run well, and reading about it here after. +1
September 26th, 2022 at 9:30 PM ^
Isn’t Hayes an ineligible man downfield if the ball is passed?
September 26th, 2022 at 9:38 PM ^
I believe that's not the case if the pass is behind the LOS but please correct me if I'm wrong.
September 26th, 2022 at 9:54 PM ^
chuck, other than michael barrett, you would be the last guy i'd try to correct. that said, you are in fact correct.
September 26th, 2022 at 11:47 PM ^
Not true, it would still be called on a screen. No originally ineligible receiver shall be or have been more than three yards beyond the neutral zone until a passer throws a legal forward pass that crosses the neutral zone. A player is in violation of this rule if any part of his body is beyond the three-yard limit.
September 27th, 2022 at 12:37 AM ^
But doesn't the bit about "a legal forward pass that crosses the neutral zone" specifically allow for a forward pass completed behind the line of scrimmage without triggering the ineligible receiver down field penalty?
September 27th, 2022 at 9:17 AM ^
Legal forward pass, meaning not a backwards pass.
September 27th, 2022 at 10:08 AM ^
No.
"that crosses the neutral zone" is the key bit you're ignoring.
September 26th, 2022 at 9:39 PM ^
As long as the pass is completed behind the line of scrimmage its legal.
September 26th, 2022 at 9:46 PM ^
Yeah, just as the 2 posters above noted, if it's a pass behind the line of scrimmage then the ineligibles can be downfield. It's just like a regular screen pass, the linemen release to the 2nd level and the rb catches the ball at, or behind, the line of scrimmage. Henning bends back about 2-3 yards behind the line of scrimmage purposely. That might have been 6 with the blocking and his speed.
Good read OP. Thanks!
September 27th, 2022 at 9:16 AM ^
I would also add to this point of the ball being caught behind the line of scrimmage the throw would/should be done almost immediately. Thus Hayes would not have the opportunity to get more than 3 yards past the line of scrimmage.
I'm pretty sure this is not the only example where JJ missed the 'obvious' read. On the first drive in the second half, on 3rd and 4, he gave to Gash and was stopped for only a 2 yard gain. Initial reaction from me was WTF!?!? However, as Brian pointed out in his Monday recap, it certainly appeared this play was also a triple option with Henning (again) going in motion and speed motioning out. In that case Henning (again) was WIDE open for a huge play.
I feel a little better now about the offensive game plan seeing that they have very solid plays designed. It is now up to JJ to be able to make the correct pre and post snap reads to execute.
Not too concerned about team keying on these formations, as by design they stress the defense. In both formation, at a minimum, a defense needs 3 guys to cover Henning and the receivers on 1 side. There would be a 4th guy covering the WR on the other side of the formation. So unless they go Cover 0, that would mean they can only have 6 men in the box to account for 5 blockers and the 2 option runners (RB and JJ)
September 26th, 2022 at 10:30 PM ^
Clearly these refs weren’t going to call ineligible man downfield anyway.
September 27th, 2022 at 11:22 AM ^
Well, I guess when you first run a play like this you are not just setting up future opponents with something they have to scout but also alerting the refs, who will need to include it in their scouting for future games. Might it even be something that they would chat with coaches about just before a game? I'd be curious about the protocols, both formal and informal.
September 26th, 2022 at 9:41 PM ^
There are certainly three options available, the worst of which will always be the handoff. Of course, handing off to Corum is pretty good as far as bad options go. I wish JJ would have been reading better, or maybe even had the read turned on?
September 26th, 2022 at 9:49 PM ^
If executed properly osu got headaches
September 26th, 2022 at 9:51 PM ^
M has run this (or something similar) at least twice already. The Hawaii UFR pointed out these two plays from Hawaii and CSU. Both times the pulling TE is the potential pass target
First, against CSU, the TE is covered so JJ runs. (Watch the CSU defense running AWAY from the ball carrier! Hehehehe....)
Granted in this one EMLOS does get blocked, but maybe because he crashes so hard to the interior of the line that it can't be helped?
Then against Hawaii the TE is left open for an easy pitch and catch.
EMLOS is rendered useless as he watches the RB run empty-handed.
The Maryland version uses a WR instead of a TE and no motion across the formation, but seems to have the same pass option built in.
September 26th, 2022 at 9:59 PM ^
OP, as far as previous QBs not pulling on the zone reads, I think Shea didn't pull as much in 2019 because he got injured in game one, and then his primary backup was injured a few games later. It started as self-preservation, and morphed into team necessity. In 2020, which is a blur, Milton seemingly didn't have the lateral quickness to be adept at running on the zone reads. As for our B1G winning quarterback, Cade simply is not a zone read guy. He's a pocket passer who runs by necessity not by design. JJ not pulling on the zone reads vs Maryland may be a consequence of Cade getting hurt. I'd coach him to exercise caution, as well, because if he goes down before Cade is healthy... 2017 all over again?
September 26th, 2022 at 11:45 PM ^
I get the QBs not pulling if they’re injured or inert, but not doing it because the backup is out seems like a stretch. I mean, even if Cade is healthy, you’re still only two QB hits from disaster. if that’s how you view QBs, that’s fine—but then why would you have QB keeps in the offense in the first place?
September 27th, 2022 at 7:13 AM ^
Exactly. The notion that QBs aren’t allowed to keep on reads implies coaching malpractice.
You designed the offense this way, have kept that concept as a key component of the playbook, and you’re not allowing the QB to actually run the play? That seems pretty dumb on the part of the coaching staff if it were true.
September 27th, 2022 at 8:10 AM ^
Every word you say is true. And yet... In 2019, McCaffrey was a hunted head away from replacing Shea in game 5 (?). Had it not been for a concussion, Shea would've (most likely) been benched for lack of performance. Some of that 'lack' surely had to do with not pulling when the read said PULL.
And McNamara certainly had the option to pull on many, many plays last year. He never did, and he never really scrambled, either. Tells me he doesn't want to run - fine, but ask that reads be removed from the offense because they just burn plays and eat life off RBs.
There is a reason that JJ didn't pull anything. I'm hoping he was being overly cautious in his first start, against a real team putting up a real fight, without a safety net. Otherwise, I agree it would be coaching malpractice - but jeez...
September 26th, 2022 at 10:10 PM ^
Wow, yeah, and Henning is wide open with a convoy.
September 27th, 2022 at 3:32 AM ^
Here are some things I would do to clean up the read for JJ:
- Run it off of outside zone. With tight zone or gap schemes, the backside end can shuffle squeeze and still play both effectively. With outside zone, if he doesn't turn and sprint, he'll never get to the back.
- Tighten the OL splits on the backside to 1 foot. Then even a partially squeezing DE is father from a QB keep.
- Have the QB read not the shoulders of the DE, but the outside foot. See where that toe is pointed. If it's not down the line (pointed at the mesh or up the field), give the ball.
September 27th, 2022 at 6:47 AM ^
Yes, looks a lot like something RichRod used to run with DRob..
Also, Maryland ran a quadruple option play (the shovel pass).
September 27th, 2022 at 7:25 AM ^
Good post. I agree it's probably the latter i that they told him to think about keeping less. Hopefully that is is just a balance he needs to get used to.
September 27th, 2022 at 8:09 AM ^
Thanks for pointing that out that there was a given opportunity for QB to keep it. I would think that they would want him to have the option to run at least 4 or 5 times a game just to keep the teams honest and open up passing game/running game. Glad to see they didn't handcuff him.
September 27th, 2022 at 9:15 AM ^
I must admit, I'm embarrassed to ask: What is the difference between an RPO and a triple option?
September 27th, 2022 at 9:32 AM ^
I may be wrong here but in a RPO (Run Pass Option), the QB reads 1 receiver. If the receiver is open the QB has the option to pull the ball from the RB belly and fire it to the receiver (usually running a quick slant). If the receiver is not open, then execute the hand off and go from there.
As for the triple option, in each of the cases pointed out in this thread, JJ have 2 reads and 3 options.
First two reads are the DE and OLB, pending on what order he is instructed to read them. The DE is the read for the run option with the RB (1), the OLB read is the option for the swing pass (2), and keeping the ball himself and running it is the 3rd options.
Essentially the QB run is the 3rd option and the difference between RPO and triple option.
September 27th, 2022 at 9:51 AM ^
the number of "o"s, i believe....
she always says the more "O"s the better
September 27th, 2022 at 11:16 AM ^
RPO is "run pass option." The QB reads a defensive back as he meshes with the RB (that is, the RB runs past him with the ball present between the RB's arms). If the DB closes on the line of scrimmage, the defense has a numerical advantage on the offense against the run, but it leaves favorable coverages for the offense against the receivers, and the QB pulls the ball out of the RB's gut and throws. If the DB drops, the defense is at a numerical disadvantage against the run but has a good set to defend the pass, and the QB hands off.
There are some variations. Some RPOs are very basic reads that target one specific receiver, usually on a quick pattern like a slant. JJ threw a TD pass to Ronnie Bell against Hawaii earlier this year on such a play. More complex RPOs also exist; Minnesota uses a lot of them, and one of their bread-and-butter plays is to pull but then to read a three-receiver concept. Since they have favorable coverage numbers, they know one player should provide an easy throw. Those plays look a lot like standard play-action, but there is a run read component.
The traditional triple option is a running play that goes back to the oooold days, where the QB reads a defensive player to determine whether to hand off to a fullback, and then if he pulls the ball he runs along the line of scrimmage and reads a linebacker to determine whether he runs the ball downfield himself or pitches the ball to a tailback. That's the old option offense attack, and "triple" refers to the number of different ballcarriers available on the play. It's not that common anymore, but as we see here it does still exist, and now occasionally includes an option that is technically a forward pass. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, Maryland's cool shovel pass appeared to be a "triple option" as well. There are real similarities with a genuine RPO; in both cases a QB is reading the action of a defender (or two defenders in turn) and using that information to determine what to do with the ball.
RPOs work well on standard downs. They aren't generally well-suited to dedicated passing downs, because defenses are perfectly happy to let the offense run the ball on 3rd-and-long. But it does occasionally offer an attractive option on 3rd-and-medium, especially when you have a choice of Blake Corum or Donovan Edwards in the backfield, and most especially when you may be in 4-down territory.
September 27th, 2022 at 9:25 AM ^
We're clearly saving the quadruple option for ohio state..... they'll never see it coming
September 27th, 2022 at 9:39 AM ^
Not sure we wanna start going "we run triple option" where recruits can see.