MBB: Michigan ranked 16th in new AP Poll

Submitted by Bambi on December 28th, 2020 at 12:21 PM

Link

B1G teams ranked are:

6 Wisconsin
10 Iowa
14 Rutgers
15 Illinois
16 Michigan
17 MSU
19 NW
21 Minnesota
25 OSU

9/14 B1G teams are ranked with Indiana receiving votes.

The highest ACC team is FSU at 18.

Couzen Rick's

December 28th, 2020 at 12:23 PM ^

Already laughing at salty sparties who will bitch about Michigan not playing anyone and being ranked ahead of them. “But we beat Duke”

Rankings don’t mean much this time of year but man is it fun to watch spartanfreude

Jordan2323

December 28th, 2020 at 2:30 PM ^

I think it gives validity to what Matt is saying about the overall talent in high school basketball being the worst it has been in years. The fact that those two teams are stacked with a bunch of 5 stars and not very many upper classmen is exactly why they suck. Look at Gonzaga for example, you have to go to the 8th, 9th and 10th place in minutes played on the roster to find freshmen playing besides Suggs. 

Frank Chuck

December 28th, 2020 at 3:04 PM ^

Yep.

I've been saying this for a while. We should be super excited for Coach Juwan Howard's awesome recruiting. Besides Coach Howard's Xs & Os prowess, his recruiting is the other major thing that has immediately impressed me.

However, it's *experienced* or *veteran* talent that gets teams to Final Fours or wins Championships (i.e. Conference Championships, Conference Tournaments, and National Championships). Look at how much better Isaiah Livers is as a senior than he was as a freshman or as a sophomore. That experience which materializes in an arsenal of new moves or a better understanding of the game (re: when to be patient vs when to be aggressive) matters in big games and is often the difference between winning and losing.

So while someone like Terrance Williams is a bench kid right now, in 2-3 years he could be an all-conference player that leads us into a deep tournament run.

Hence, I like that Howard is getting potential OADs with a mix of veteran players.

I'll do a diary breakdown of all the Final Four teams since the OAD rule came into effect. It's clear as day that experience matters in clutch moments of tournament games.

Jordan2323

December 28th, 2020 at 3:10 PM ^

I look forward to reading that. I agree with you on the championships being won by veterans. Anymore you can consider a Soph at tourney time to be a veteran player. As stated above, wish we had a 2 and done. 

I totally agree with Howard's recruiting so far. Getting kids like Diabate who are a surefire one and done to go with upper classmen and talented freshmen and sophomores like Zeb, Williams, HD, Collins, Houstan, Bufkin, etc will be awesome. If we successfully recruit high school and the transfer portal both, we should always be a contender. 

TrueBlue2003

December 28th, 2020 at 3:07 PM ^

I think it also gives credence to the idea that experienced, well-coached four stars that have played together for a few years are better than five star freshmen who have played a couple months together.

Even the Duke team that had Zion Williamson and RJ Barrett was one of the most talented college basketball teams ever (in terms of talent alone) and they couldn't even get to the final four.  Lost to a less talented but far more cohesive and experienced team.  Those kind of teams tend to do better (Villanova, Texas Tech, Virginia, Gonzaga, etc) even when the young talent is top notch.

My theory is that college coaching has gotten better to the point where it's doing two things: optimizing usage of three point shooters (which often aren't that talented in college but the three is the great equalizer) and defending in a smarter, more analytical way.  This means that well-coached, experienced teams can more easily make up for talent deficits.

This isn't all that different than the past though.  There's really only been two teams in the history of college basketball that won titles with the one-and-done approach: the Anthony Davis Kentucky team because he was one of the greatest of all time and the Duke Jahlil Okafor / Justice Winslow team that was probably more of an exception than the rule.

Richard75

December 28th, 2020 at 4:12 PM ^

Agreed. We saw this dynamic play out on the international level long ago. Inexperienced U.S. teams eventually couldn't deal with older, elite international squads. There's less of an age/cohesion gap in college ball, but the increased importance of 3-pointers hurts the one-and-done teams, since they're less likely to have built out that skill.

Jordan2323

December 28th, 2020 at 3:04 PM ^

From a fans perspective, I wish kids would have to stay 2 years if they went to college. If you want to go out of high school then allow it. The difference between a team like UK with all those kids this year and what they would look like next year would be night and day. 

Jordan2323

December 28th, 2020 at 3:17 PM ^

Yep, when these kids practice all of the time and play 30+ games a year, they would be so much better in year 2. They also will have gotten used to balancing school and sports as well.

  In my opinion, it would be a better evaluative tool for the NBA as well. When kids are at or close to their collegiate peak, who are the better players? When I say peak, im more speaking of the ones that are most likely to stick in the NBA. Garza is an awesome collegiate center but even as a senior the jury is out on his NBA prospects. You take a kid like Zion, as a Sophomore you would absolutely know he's a quality NBA prospect. 

Blue Vet

December 28th, 2020 at 12:24 PM ^

Though the rankings still don't mean a whole lot more than they did a few weeks ago when Michigan didn't make the top 25, it's nice to see an upward trajectory.

Streetchemist

December 28th, 2020 at 12:35 PM ^

It’s crazy how our schedule worked out this year. We don’t have like a “very likely loss” game for a long time.  I know it’s pretty unlikely to win them all but we have some serious upward mobility potential on this poll. 

A Lot of Milk

December 28th, 2020 at 12:37 PM ^

Historically bad start for the ACC

Once K and Williams retire, there's gonna be a major talent vacuum in that conference. It'll be interesting if any of the modern lower tier schools can make a jump to relevancy soon (GT, Miami, Pitt, BC, etc) 

TrueBlue2003

December 28th, 2020 at 12:50 PM ^

Those are two of the top four jobs in basketball.  They should be able to find elite replacements.  I think it's premature to assume they'll fall.  In fact, UNC could be like a late Bobby Bowden situation.  Seems like Roy is at that stage and if they replace him with a Jimbo Fisher caliber coach, they could (in fact, they should) improve from where they've been the past couple years.

Jordan2323

December 28th, 2020 at 2:43 PM ^

I agree here. Coach K built Duke into what it is. North Carolina was always a blue blood program. I'm trying to think of who Duke has in the coaching tree and all I can think of is Collins at NW, Dawkins at UCF and Wojo at Marquette. I can see K wanting to keep it in house where NC may just go for the best coach available. 

San Diego Mick

December 28th, 2020 at 12:51 PM ^

We gotta get Davis back and/or John's to start playing better for depth sakes.

Franz looks like he's coming around, lots of guys can shoot the rock and team FT shooting is the best it's been since the 2018 season.

This is a team with a high ceiling and if things go right, it could be a really special year. 

For me, Sweet 16 or better is a great season, certain years it's Final Four or bust, this year a Sweet 16 would be great, a championship would be awesome. 

Jordan2323

December 28th, 2020 at 2:46 PM ^

Thats my biggest concern and I put it into another thread recently. After Maryland we start playing games every three days for 7 straight games. We are basically playing a 6 person rotation right now with Johns and Williams getting some minutes. I'm afraid we are gonna lose some games coming up based on fatigue. 8-9 is good depth, 6 is not good. 

Jordan2323

December 28th, 2020 at 3:28 PM ^

Honestly we could've used those two and Dejulius this year. You throw those 3 on the team right now and we are even better than we are now. We also would be set going forward because all 3 of them would be 4 year players. One could have a major argument between the value of CC and DD for this team as far as depth. 

Jordan2323

December 28th, 2020 at 8:27 PM ^

Im perfectly fine with Smith but if DD had stayed we wouldn't have went after him anyway. As far as Castleton, the fact that Davis went down with no backup is my point about both now and in 2022 in another thread as far as big men go. Bajema is one of those junior or senior guys that I think will be good later on. He might never amount to anything tho. Id definitely take CC and DD back. 

Eastside Maize

December 28th, 2020 at 1:07 PM ^

The biggest thing for me was Wagner being aggressive and scoring 20, for the first time this season. After Staee goes 0-3 tonight, they can purify themselves in the waters of Lake Minnetonka!?

rice4114

December 28th, 2020 at 1:45 PM ^

Polls do matter because you get bumps for wins and forgiveness for losses. Its like the SEC in football. People say who cares about polls early in the season but it is the reason Bama has a built in mulligan every year. Without Notre Dame in the conference Clemson cant shake off a loss but because NDs high ranking they get a mulligan. Its a chess match with the polls even more so in football. Basketball gets 64 more teams in the playoff so it doesn't matter near as much but good seeding is important.