Matt Hinton on Harbaugh's Recruiting "Woes"
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/national-signing-day-2015-michigan-fl…
A reasonable take. Basically contends Urban's 2012 flipping of so many top recruits is an outlier, not the rule, and it's very hard for Harbaugh to make up this much ground with such little time to actually see recruits.
February 3rd, 2015 at 11:40 AM ^
Didn't we already know this?
February 3rd, 2015 at 1:27 PM ^
Sorry, but this piece is too melodramatic for my taste. The situation is not, as Hinton calls it, "grim." This class is going to be a decent one for its size. Most of all, Harbaugh has some great classes from the last three years to work with and has done a great job of shoring up the QB situation.
This is really the perfect year to not have a great class. It was going to be small anyway. Anyone Harbaugh flips is a bonus. The situation is not "grim;" it is great. As I have been saying all along, the recent MLive conversion to my logic notwithstanding, the biggest recruit for this year was Jim Harbaugh.
Everything else is secondary.
February 3rd, 2015 at 2:42 PM ^
Most of the recruits are actually on the offense.
February 3rd, 2015 at 2:48 PM ^
When mouth breathing OSU fans here said how damaged Michigan would be this year because of the transition, I pointed out the small class and that Hoke did a great job of recruiting in the years he was here. The talent shoudl be on the roster and Michigan hired one of the best developers in the game. I fail to see how a small recruiting class this year was going to be a bad thing with the late coaching transition. Would it have been awesome to have a top 50 LB and top 5 CB and the #1TE in the country? Hells yes. But we have Harbaugh. Many concerns just went up in smoke.
February 3rd, 2015 at 3:10 PM ^
within the last week or so that basically said Hoke might as well have been recruiting for Harbaugh. The author said that the roster was perfect for Harbaugh's system and Michigan would return to winning big much sooner than many people think.
Can't remember who wrote it or where I saw it. Probably here.
February 3rd, 2015 at 8:58 PM ^
February 3rd, 2015 at 11:41 AM ^
From all we were hearing at the time I still believe Meyer was going to take the PSU job at the end of that season. I think he was already in touch with their recruits and that's why he was able to flip so many of them to OSU, which made up a large segment of his first recruiting class.
February 3rd, 2015 at 12:13 PM ^
and signing day in February 2012. A full 50% of them --- 5 of 10 --- were either PSU commits or strong PSU leans prior to Urban being named OSU Head Coach.
Of course, there was that 9.5 earthquake that hit Penn State football in November 2011.
Anyway --- comparing Urban February 2012 to Harbaugh February 2015 is kind of ridiculous, given the rather unique circumstances in November 2011-February 2012. No doubt that If Ohio State or Michigan State were rocked with some big earthquake, Harbaugh could pluck many kids from their current classes.
February 3rd, 2015 at 12:16 PM ^
Lets not forget that the NCAA allowed OSU to have one staff coach the bowl game and the new staff recruit from november basically. Which is a joke but whatever.
I still take Harbaugh the way it went down. We may miss some kids now but in the future we are much better off.
February 3rd, 2015 at 12:55 PM ^
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February 3rd, 2015 at 1:32 PM ^
moral judgement in a case that benefited us doesn't make it right! :)
February 3rd, 2015 at 1:53 PM ^
Did you really just suggest that was morally wrong? lol.
February 3rd, 2015 at 11:41 AM ^
People also forget the relationship he has to make with the coaches of the high schools... he's been out of the recruiting game for over 4 years... Urban only sat out a year... kept Fickell and others... and even in his retirement was working games for ESPN in the midwest footprint so he had ample time to build a rapport with high school coaches in his one year stint broadcasting
February 3rd, 2015 at 11:50 AM ^
and Drevno came from USC. He's not coming in entirely blind. Furthermore, it was Harbaugh's choice to hire a bunch of NFL guys who are going to be new and/or out of touch with the recruiting game.
I think we should wait to see what happens tomorrow, but if it doesn't go well, we should acknowledge that Harbaugh's staff hires are focused on player development more than recruiting. (Or at leas tthat's what it means for the preliminary transition year class)
February 3rd, 2015 at 11:59 AM ^
February 3rd, 2015 at 2:34 PM ^
Wheatley might be able to help out.
February 3rd, 2015 at 12:12 PM ^
Harbaugh's staff hires are focused on player development more than recruiting
Well, not 2015 recruiting at any rate.
February 3rd, 2015 at 11:42 AM ^
February 3rd, 2015 at 11:45 AM ^
It's really more than just a month. Meyer was effectively unemployed prior to the OSU job other than random color commentary gigs for espn. He could scout recruits and stay on top of things before being hired, so he likely had targets in mind the day he stepped in the door. Harbaugh was employed, and presumably focused on that job, until the day he was hired. I think that's likely a big difference too. Plus, Meyer was only one year removed from college coaching. Lots of elements that would swing the recruiting pendulum in his direction.
February 3rd, 2015 at 12:08 PM ^
He had not only a head start but a "recruiting only" head start as the NCAA imposed its "opposite of sanctions" penalty on them.
February 3rd, 2015 at 12:49 PM ^
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February 3rd, 2015 at 1:24 PM ^
Is this serious? Michigan didn't force out Hoke due to NCAA sanctions and a show-cause order. Michigan wasn't banned from bowl games. Michigan didn't lose scholarships. Guess who did? Yup. OSU.
So, when Michigan hired Harbaugh, he immediately was in charge of the entire program. When OSU hired Urban, there was an entirely separate staff running the football team and he was allowed to assemble a separate staff for recruiting. All of this while under sanctions. It'd be like allowing an arsonist weekends free from jail so that he can practice fire starting techniques. It was an insanely fucked up gift to OSU.
February 3rd, 2015 at 1:47 PM ^
gift from Mark Emmert and his crony Gordon Gee.
February 3rd, 2015 at 2:02 PM ^
Urban Meyer and tatgate aren't related? Why would the NCAA punish Urban for something he didn't do? Hence, the waiver. The NCAA drilled OSU for tatgate, why would they drill the next guy for coming in to clean up the program? Like I said, this happens to lame-duck hires all the time, with or without sanctions. This just happened to Nebraska, WHERE'S THE ANGER?!?!! Oh rite, Nebraska isn't the rival. This is dumb.
February 3rd, 2015 at 2:30 PM ^
February 3rd, 2015 at 2:52 PM ^
Exactly. The NCAA punished OSU already. If not allowing OSU a waiver they grant to basically anyone who asks for it was part of the punishment, then it should have been part of the punishment. Frank Clark hit a girl and Brendan Gibbons raped one, therefore Brady Hoke is responsible. Ok.
February 3rd, 2015 at 5:27 PM ^
What 123blue is stating is that in common situations the coaches that are being replaced aren't due to NCAA sanctions, which is what occured at OSU. Nebraska fired a coach for performance reasons, not because of NCAA violations.
Yes, its routinely granted, but the anger is that the "free" recruiting period occured because a coach left because of breaking the rules. So it appears: break the rules get a benefit, fire that coach for breaking the rules, get a benefit. Even if its right from a rule perspective, it's a bad message.
February 3rd, 2015 at 9:22 PM ^
February 6th, 2015 at 1:34 PM ^
Uh, yeah. Think we're on the same page here. He didn't walk into a great situation to flip things around immediately. That's an "excuse" if you choose to see it as one, or it's a realistic analysis of the situation.
Saying "just get results" without looking at context of the results is naive.
February 3rd, 2015 at 5:33 PM ^
In addition to an extra month, Meyer was 11 months removed from coaching in college. Harbaugh was almost four years removed. This meant Meyer might have already been knowledgeable about some recruits (recruiting as Juniors), did not have a big gap in relationships with coaches, was coming off recent college success. Meyer also had the benefit that while making a change in system, it wasn't a monumental shift. They could (and did) make a smooth offensive transition.
Harbaugh alone makes a splash in name, but they had to take what was there and cobble it together. Harbaugh is recruiting from a base he wasn't before at Stanford so has to build relationships. He has to look at a class of talent he has not analyzed before and make quick determinations on who he wants, all the while fighting a battle that those individuals might not have been recruited before.
February 3rd, 2015 at 11:43 AM ^
February 3rd, 2015 at 2:38 PM ^
February 3rd, 2015 at 11:45 AM ^
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February 3rd, 2015 at 11:45 AM ^
Urban was hired early December and had time to see recruits before the dead period. He also had a twelve month vacation to evaluate recruits while he was spending more time with his fami........ well touring college campuses and calling games with Chris Spielman.
Jim was hired basically in January, in the middle of a dead period, and was a little busy the last twelve months to worry about recruiting. He also didn't have the advantage of Penn State sanctions to blow up their entire recruiting class like Urban did. But the loss of Arnette was a little tough to take. Why? Because Urban offered the kid just because he knew it was a need for Michigan and trending that way in the kid's recruitment. Ohio State had the room so they took a flyer on the kid instead of letting U-M have a recruit from a Florida HS power.
February 3rd, 2015 at 11:51 AM ^
February 3rd, 2015 at 12:45 PM ^
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February 3rd, 2015 at 12:30 PM ^
February 3rd, 2015 at 12:43 PM ^
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February 3rd, 2015 at 11:48 AM ^
bucknuts got better after the scandal
February 3rd, 2015 at 11:49 AM ^
February 3rd, 2015 at 4:03 PM ^
I agree. Obviously speculation but if JH and his staff were given another month to swoon recruits we would have a totally different outcome.
February 3rd, 2015 at 11:51 AM ^
February 3rd, 2015 at 12:08 PM ^
This is a good point. Harbaugh's college recruiting experience occurred at 2 schools, San Diego and Stanford, that were not in a position to land top classes, for very different reasons. But he succeeded at both, in the words of a former player, at "turning losers into winners."
Jim Harbaugh will produce a much better team next season, because he's a great football coach, not because of who signs on tomorrow. Going forward, top recruits will be attracted based on the results on the field.
February 3rd, 2015 at 11:57 AM ^
Another big reason:
OSU's record in the seven years leading up to the coaching change (2005-2011): 10-2, 12-1, 11-2, 10-3, 11-2, 12-1, 6-7. That includes six BCS bowl games (including two championship games) and even in their worst season, they still made a bowl game.
UM's record in the seven years leading up to the coaching change (2008-2014): 3-9, 5-7, 7-6, 11-2, 8-5, 7-6, 5-7. One BCS bowl, three years with no bowl game.
I love Michigan as much as the next person, but Michigan's situation is not on the same par as where OSU was when Meyer came in, from a neutral recruit's perspective. Let Michigan start winning on the field again and recruiting will sort itself out.
February 3rd, 2015 at 9:13 PM ^
February 3rd, 2015 at 11:58 AM ^
February 3rd, 2015 at 12:04 PM ^
I will also add that Meyer and OSU had the benefit for basically have two staffs that whole time, with Meyer not having to deal with any real team issues while Finkell ran them in that crappy bowl game. It was a very special case from that standpoint, along with the fact that OSU has been SEC North for years now.
February 3rd, 2015 at 12:09 PM ^
The big factor missing from all of this analysis is just how small the class was expected to be from the beginning. 12-15 guys has been the prediction all along. Thus, when Hoke's class filled up quickly with studs there wasn't a lot of strong interest on the part of Michigan to other recruits that Harbaugh could then run with when he got going. Also, when the few commits started leaving, it left an even tinier class to come back from.
If we get Clark, Wheatley, and someone that appears to be a longshot right now, that would be a great class considering the circumstances.
February 3rd, 2015 at 12:32 PM ^
February 3rd, 2015 at 12:11 PM ^