JUB Snippets: Harbaugh. Manuel "Positively Hate" Each Other & Moore Has the Job
Brian has implied as such in terms of Moore. Farthest I've seen JUB go as when employed at Michigan he hasn't used such language but "hate" is a pretty strong term.
I don't think a more permeable AD would have kept JH from following what is an obvious dream to go capture a super bowl but it casts increasing doubt on this guy as an AD in general. Or I guess a kinder view is these are just 2 guys who couldn't get along and everyone else loves Warde.
https://www.michiganpublic.org/sports/2024-01-26/bacon-harbaugh-delivered-on-his-promise
The third thing, Jim Harbaugh and the athletic director Warde Manuel positively hate each other. Michigan could have handled this a lot better, but I'm not sure if that would have kept Jim Harbaugh at Michigan.
That's cute Doug, Moore has the job, period. Everyone wants Sherrone Moore to have it.
January 26th, 2024 at 11:45 AM ^
Okay - now you must agree with me to pile on with the disdain for Warde!
January 26th, 2024 at 12:38 PM ^
Should we make some new threads to show how much we hate him?
January 26th, 2024 at 1:06 PM ^
I was in the camp to not pile on Warde but.... there is a disturbing trend here.... Harbaugh, Bakich, Beilein....arguably three of the best college coaches (in their respective sports) in the HISTORY of Michigan sports have all gotten away from him ......hmmmmmm....
Oh and the screw up in hockey...
Isn't that his job??
Edit-- sorry I didn't see Mercury's post below.. but the sentiment is the same....
January 26th, 2024 at 1:13 PM ^
Don't forget Hutchins, wouldn't surprise me if Plocki retired soon as well.
January 26th, 2024 at 1:41 PM ^
there is a disturbing trend here....
There is also the trend of Harbaugh absolutely hating every boss he's ever had and trying to get them fired on his way out the door. Not a Warde fan, but many people are acting like Harbaugh is a sweet angel who has never done anything wrong, while Warde is just a big meanie who is a dumb-dumb for not giving Harbaugh anything and everything he ever wanted. It's very possible that Harbaugh is incredibly difficult to work with and manage, and providing oversight on his program as an AD is a very difficult job.
The Connor Stalions, Shemy Schembechler, Matt Weiss, Chris Partridge, and Alex Yood shit just go to show that more oversight into the football program is probably a good thing.
January 26th, 2024 at 1:47 PM ^
Yeah and one thing I heard about the contract negotation is that it's definitely not normal to have an immunity clause like Harbaugh wanted. Jim balking at a buyout also makes me think he wanted to go to the NFL. Having said that, I definitely wouldn't be sad to see Warde go. Arguably the issues you bring up with Weiss, Schembechler, etc. are on Warde as well.
January 26th, 2024 at 1:56 PM ^
Arguably the issues you bring up with Weiss, Schembechler, etc. are on Warde as well.
Yea, we absolutely need a better hiring/background check process. AD's can't just let the football coach hire whoever he wants with no oversight.
January 26th, 2024 at 2:01 PM ^
My take - which means nothing...Harbaugh put those requests out there because he does not trust the leadership at the University.
January 26th, 2024 at 2:17 PM ^
one thing I heard about the contract negotation is that it's definitely not normal to have an immunity clause like Harbaugh wanted
That's going to change, now that the NCAA has ruled that a head coach can be charged with Level I violations if anyone below him committed them.
January 26th, 2024 at 2:34 PM ^
Warde does not make the hiring decision with the football staff. It's on Harbaugh and the HR. Only thing the AD does is the head coach hiring. It is common across the board in college athletics.
January 26th, 2024 at 2:56 PM ^
It's also not normal to be the subject of two witch hunts. Is this really a Harbaugh issue or is it a Ryan Day and Jim Stapleton issue?
Also was it really 'immunity' or was it that he wanted a three person panel to determine his fate and not Warde? He wanted people to have his back for frivolous attacks.
January 26th, 2024 at 4:06 PM ^
I thought that Harbaugh wanted a 3 person panel to handle violations?
From what I've heard we had a good chance at getting the TRO, but decided not to do it.
I do think that Harbaugh wanted to go to the NFL, and honestly I'm fine with it now. I'm glad we stuck with him. But too many times our relationship with him just seemed to not back the guy when we should have. The pay cut was a slap that wasn't needed after a Covid season. The way the U rolls over to the NCAA and now the B1G when they were being egregious this year drove me nuts. And if I were him, I'd be thinking 'Yeah, I just got you 3 B1G titles and you don't have my back, you don't have an assumption of innocence.'. I'd probably be out too.
January 27th, 2024 at 4:18 PM ^
I don’t blame Warde for Jim wanting to win a Super Bowl. I blame Warde for being absolute shit at his job. Our NIL is next to nothing and whether he chased off coaches or not, they left on his watch. We need an AD who wants to win as bad as the staff he employs and Wardes just fine with drawing a paycheck and taking up space. He’s literally done nothing in his time here. This is a fresh start and staying on top requires all hands on deck. Unfortunately Wardes to busy having dinner with Stapleton and kissing the ncaa ass to be an asset.
January 26th, 2024 at 1:54 PM ^
Bakich.... Beilein....Hockey....??????
January 26th, 2024 at 2:00 PM ^
Harbaugh didn't get along with York/Balke in San Francisco, and evidently didn't get along with Manuel. But he did seem to work well with Hackett, and AFAIK, didn't have too many issues with his Stanford AD.
In any event, whether or not he's a hard guy to handle, Michigan made its share of actions that may well have alienated him:
-Not coming to his defense, at least publicly, when the Big Ten fined him in 2016 for criticizing the OSU officiating;
-Cutting his salary by 50% in January 2021;
-Giving him a new deal the following year (after the Big Ten title and CFP appearance) that was still less than he was making before the paycut;
-Dragging its feet on NIL for a while (I think it's getting better, but some of that seems to have been due to Harbaugh's own lobbying)
-Not defending Harbaugh when he wanted to dispute the accusation that he was lying to the NCAA, and in fact negotiating a 4-game suspension - and then, when the NCAA backed out, hitting him with a 3-game suspension anyway, effectively acknowledging his guilt when he denied it;
-After initially supporting him in the Petitti dispute, throwing in the towel and accepting that he couldn't coach against Maryland (our 1,000th win) or OSU;
-At the team banquet, Manuel didn't show up;
-Reportedly refusing to offer him the same immunity from firing over NCAA charges that Bill Self and other coaches have gotten - until (reportedly) after he was in L.A. and about to agree in principle.
I'm not sure I buy the argument that there was absolutely no chance of keeping him here. Sure, he felt some pull to go pro and win that elusive Lombardi Trophy. But he also stayed here nine years. That's a long time for a guy supposedly itching to leave. .
I think from his perspective, he felt the NCAA and Big Ten breathing down his neck, and in response to that, his superiors here were only willing to support him so much. Given that, the chance to walk away from all that and just coach football - and chase after that Super Bowl ring - was too much to pass down.
January 26th, 2024 at 2:35 PM ^
100% cutting his contract and never restoring it!! Not backing up JIm at all to the ncaa/bigten! Not backing up Jim at all in 2016 when the b10 officials flat out screwed Jim, the program, coaches and players, seriously. Not only that, the b10 officials continued screwing him through 2018!!! Don't forget the holding call on Higdon that was a blatant and brazen message right at Harbaugh, through crossing route game where they flat out were breaking rules on the field blocking down field before the ball was ever in the air.. flat out blocking the defenders assigned to a rec. Go watch an sec film review of that 2018 game by topbillin, dude broke that down to show you what they were really doing and the big ten officials watched it.. Warde, nah, nothing. Oh wait, he did say after that nw game, maybe it's time I make a call to the commissioner.
11th hour? BS, that offer didn't come till after the clock struck midnight! Harbaugh and the Chargers had already agreed on a contract and were then negotiating the structure of the organization! Anyone remember the reports Harbaugh was flying back to Ann Arbor only it never happened. Why, the chargers had already determined he was their coach and was just working everything out to get the deal done so he was their coach. This was already known before that final offer was said to have been made!
Warde utterly failed at the job.
Jan 2021, cut his contract in half! Take it or leave it contract!!!
Jan 2022, upped his contract but it was still incentivized and still not what he was making the original contract.
Jan 2023 An Undefeated season, big ten champs, cfp appearance again.
October 2023 Jim's wishes for his next contract were made known.
Jan 8th, 2024, 15-0, CFP champs, back to back to back Big Ten Champs, 3rd cfp appearance, all of it. From this date Warde had two full weeks to present the contract to Jim with everything he had requested including immunity other coaches had been granted.. nope, not given. Instead 2 days later after an agreement was already done with the Chargers, it is offered.
The UNVITATION or the NODEAL here is your contract i don't want to give you, here it is..
January 26th, 2024 at 3:23 PM ^
Not backing up Jim at all in 2016 when the b10 officials flat out screwed Jim, the program, coaches and players, seriously.
we have no idea if he did or didn’t “back up ‘jim’” in 2016, only that he didn’t do a public garment-rending. and thank goodness for that.
January 26th, 2024 at 2:44 PM ^
Yeah, its extremely clear you put up with Harbaugh as a boss, but he has a ton of flaws people just ignore because he wins as a fans.
January 26th, 2024 at 2:55 PM ^
Only two of his bosses and there are plenty of reasons to think he's right about those two.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:40 PM ^
Agreed. Harbaugh was an iconic face of the program. But he is not without faults. That’s not a shot at him. Everyone has their flaws. But some fans have morphed this into a cult of personality.
Harbaugh has grated on his bosses everywhere that he has been. But he wins so they put up with it. And to be fair, most people in management are risk averse, so just because Harbaugh ruffled feathers doesn’t mean that his way isn‘t right. But he must be a personality that can only be taken in doses if you are not part of his inner circle or his team.
To me Harbaugh is a very mixed bag and I’m ambivalent about his departure. Happy that he was here and not glad that he is leaving but also fine to move on to the next chapter sans yearly will-he-stay-will-he-go hijinks and constant controversy. And yes, we need better compliance around the football program.
January 26th, 2024 at 4:47 PM ^
I'm not aware of harbaugh on bad terms with Stanford and U of San Diego
January 26th, 2024 at 6:07 PM ^
But you only addressed the football program…there IS a disturbing trend here with problems in multiple sports that suggest an incompetent AD.
January 26th, 2024 at 1:49 PM ^
Did Bakich or Beilein hate Warde Manuel? Beilein tried to get the Pistons jobs the year before the Cavs, and made it clear he wanted his shot at the NBA. And Bakich, for all his greatness, knew the Big 10 is a mid-major for baseball and Clemson was in the power conference ACC. There's no evidence either of them disliked Michigan as much as better opportunities arose.
January 26th, 2024 at 1:53 PM ^
Its been said that Bakich asked for money to expand the program, UM AD/Regents did not come through and Bakich left.
January 26th, 2024 at 2:01 PM ^
Bronxblue-- therein lies the rub... Isn't your job as AD is to convince or pacify or coerce them to stay... unicorns are hard to catch and even harder to hold onto.... And Warde is 0-3...When we lose to osu 3 times in a row we lose our shit....
January 26th, 2024 at 2:09 PM ^
There is a pattern of poor leadership when your best people keep leaving.
January 27th, 2024 at 3:05 PM ^
I guess my question regarding Beilein is what kind of relationship he and Manuel had, if any. It may have been impossible to keep him if he was frustrated by players leaving early (which is what I've heard), but I wonder if better communication would have meant that Manuel could have either pulled out the stops to change his mind, or at least might have had a sense 3-4 months before it happened that this was likely allowing him to plan.
January 26th, 2024 at 1:29 PM ^
Woulld that help for Warde to get it? Then sure!
January 26th, 2024 at 1:23 PM ^
I posted words to this effect earlier...
Warde didn't have to mess with Harbaugh with the pay cut and incentives replacement after the Covid year. It wasn't necessary. in fact it was kinda shitty.
Warde didn't have to suspend Harbaugh for 3 games at the beginning of the season for somewhat edible cheeseburgers. More shitty behavior.
Michigan/Warde didn't fight the end of the season 3 game suspension. Extremely shitty behavior.
Michigan's/Warde's NIL efforts are less than sufficient. Won't be getting better with Warde there.
Here, I'll say it. Warde is a bit of a cunt. There, I said it.
January 26th, 2024 at 1:43 PM ^
This ^^
I stated in another thread that this whole thing started to unravel after the COVID season. I understand the angst at going 2-4, but it was a freaking pandemic! No way you vilify someone in that circumstance. You put them on the hot seat sure, but you don't knee jerk reaction a cut in pay and all the other BS that came afterwards.
As far as I'm concerned Warde Manuel forced Harbaugh out by making the workplace toxic and he needs to go, pronto!
Harbaugh to the NFL likely would have happened no matter what but the handling and timing could have been A LOT better.
January 27th, 2024 at 9:54 PM ^
100%. Let Warde reinvent himself dow the road the same way Harbaugh had to. He’s getting paid way to much money to be below average!
January 26th, 2024 at 1:58 PM ^
Amen brother. I knew Harbaugh didn't care much for Manuel and/or M's admin since he gave back that $1.5m bonus.
People all said how gracious that was and all, but I read it as Harbaugh telling Admin "Fu** you bit**es and thinking money is what motivates me".
January 26th, 2024 at 2:26 PM ^
Could've been both.
January 26th, 2024 at 1:59 PM ^
Everything you said is very true.
Also, dont forget the regents who pulled a 11th hour back office deal to suspend Harbaugh during the most critical stretch of the season. I hope they enjoy the extra revenue Harbaugh brought them by building a national championship team, because they stabbed him in the back along the way. As much as I hate Jim's decision, Id leave too after all this.
January 27th, 2024 at 9:57 PM ^
Precisely why the regents are posting on X, or whatever the fuk it’s called now. They’re trying to save their cushy little jobs. Fire Warde and vote the regents out. It won’t bring Harbaugh back but it breeds accountability!
January 26th, 2024 at 11:47 AM ^
Look this isn't new or anything, but it's time for Warde to go. If him as an AD has ANYTHING to do with Harbaugh leaving, that is disqualifiying for the AD position. Outside of Harbaugh doing something illegal or something. Harbaugh is a notoriously difficult person to have as a subordinate it's pretty clear, but all you need to do as an AD for the football program at UM is make sure they have the resources they need and protect it from the NCAA. The three best coaches in basketball, baseball, and now football UM has had in like decades have now all left under Warde's watch. What is it exactly that you do here?
January 26th, 2024 at 11:53 AM ^
You can add “and Michigan seems to be behind the curve in NIL” before the last sentence.
January 26th, 2024 at 1:18 PM ^
Which is how Harbaugh personally wanted it
January 26th, 2024 at 1:51 PM ^
To Mercury's point... aren't geniuses notoriously hard to deal with...! Your job -if you can deal with it- is to catch onto- and hold onto- lightning in a bottle.... That is your ONE and ONLY JOB!!!
January 26th, 2024 at 3:45 PM ^
Part of that is because state law prohibits the kinds of NIL deals that states like Texas and Ohio allow. That’s not on Warde or Michigan. That’s on the state legislature.
January 26th, 2024 at 11:57 AM ^
I deal with the god-damn NCAA, so the coaches don't have to! I have people skills!
January 26th, 2024 at 11:59 AM ^
You are creative - you could have that one big idea (maybe something like a ‘jump to conclusions mat?’)
January 26th, 2024 at 12:25 PM ^
Is horrible idea, horrible.
January 26th, 2024 at 12:01 PM ^
I regret that I have only one upvote to give you, sir. Allz the intewebs to you for that clever paraphrasing of a singularly poignant cinematic moment. For me, that's up there with, "I'm with the mattress police, your tags are missing," and, "I'm a bridge-builder from Takoma."
January 26th, 2024 at 12:12 PM ^
And the rumblings of our baseball coach was confused there wasnt a counter offer to come close to Clemsons is extremely troubling.
If the UM athletic department cant keep up with Clemson in baseball but Gonzaga can keep up with Kansas and Duke and Cincy football can fight like hell to stay relevant? This is one of those things we have told ourselves so many times we start to believe. I was very happy when Brian finally said in a podcast we could compete in baseball if we wanted to. Warde failed to even attempt to compete.
January 26th, 2024 at 12:25 PM ^
I get the feeling that Warde and others think:"Hey, we're Michigan!" They keep thinking that just the brand name alone will keep this ship afloat and sailing. They don't feel the need to try harder as you point out.
January 26th, 2024 at 12:39 PM ^
When his only frame of reference is "not UConn" its not hard to understand he can't read the label from inside the bottle.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:53 PM ^
Warde was also at Buffalo but I get your point. But bear in mind that UCONN basketball, men’s and women’s, has been a heck of a lot more successful over the past two decades than any Michigan program. So his experience at UCONN doesn’t render him a complete dolt.
January 26th, 2024 at 12:44 PM ^
Agreed MR. Our toughest critics (Seth/Mgoblog in general) let this one slide right on by without holding any feet to the fire. They got warm weather! Get the fuck out of here. We were on that field playing for a National Championship in baseball. You absolutely throw 3% of your surplus at Bakich to keep that shit going. Im still floored to this day but it looks like the tide has turned on the blogs feelings on this. It used to be all thumbs down, pitch forks, and torches just saying you can compete in baseball.
January 26th, 2024 at 3:48 PM ^
Resting on laurels is part of the Michigan way, and not just in athletics. That’s why you need change agents every so often.