Harbaugh sees both Patterson and McCaffery playing, "redefining what a starter is"
We could end up with our first QB timeshare in quite some time. https://sports.yahoo.com/michigans-jim-harbaugh-said-q-bs-shea-patterson-dylan-mc-caffrey-could-split-time-225443475.html
Don’t do anything stupid. Just win the games. Not sure I like this
My take on it is that there is too much talent between them to not get McCaffery in there some. In theory it could give defenses fits trying to game plan for both.
I'm trying to think off the top of my head when this has ever worked. Usually it's a QB playing tight, trying not to get pulled for the other guy. They feel like they can't make a mistake or if they make a mistake, they'll just be pulled and won't be able to develop any type of rythm. I hate QB carousels.
Old football axiom: It you have two starting quarterbacks you don't have any.
Another old football axiom: just win baby.
New football axiom: in Gattis I trust.
Condition: trust good only until first failed fourth and one.
Just like Wilton’s demeanor in 2017 compared to 2016. I think coach is going to use Dylan in a wildcat role with more throwing options than a typical wildcat.
Urban did this in 06 with Tebow and leak and won the BCS
But didn't Tebow only throw a handful of passes the whole season?
Yes. No matter what season you are talking about.
Huh? Tebow averaged 300+ passes his next 3 seasons in college.
Tongue in cheek comments aren’t always based in 100% fact.
Chris Leak and Tebow is the only time it has worked at a championship level. Obviously Tebow had a unique skill set and was way different than Leak. Shea and Dylan are not that.
06 Gators, Leak and Tebow?
Urban Meyer’s first championship at Florida
Agreed.
My take is that Josh Gattis may intend to treat it like Tua/Jalen 2018.
Not that far-fetched.
And remember last year when everyone assumed they were still going to redshirt Jalen and they didn't? It was truly the plan to use both. Obviously McCaffrey can't be redshirted so no suspense...but they could use him in the same capacity. Hurts was NOT a gimmick QB for Bama last year...he got real drives and when they got up...he closed games for them.
They got him 8-10 throws in a lot of games last year.
And there's no real risk of losing McCaffrey because unlike Tua, Patterson is gone next year.
If we want to wildly speculate...the first person I thought about was Milton. If you're playing 2 QBs, there is only limited mop-up time, if any. Bama didn't really put the #3 in. I wouldn't be worried about McCaffrey, but Milton...yeah. I would almost be surprised if it's not McCaffrey, McNamara, Johnson next year and then McCarthy enters the year after.
Anyway, this is Tua/Hurts in my mind. I just don't know why we're talking about changing what a starting QB is...when it was literally done by the same guy (Gattis) last year.
Very good point. Gattis has a history of this, and it worked very well for Alabama last year.
I also worry about Milton getting lost in the shuffle, but if his passing accuracy struggles from high school haven't improved enough, then it's hard to justify anything but garbage time at this point.
It's just nice to actually have a "overabundance of talent" problem at QB for a change after what the team suffered through in 2017.
Milton was always a boom/bust prospect with his accuracy issues. That's not something you can usually overcome. I hope he figures it out but I'd be surprised if he stuck around after this season.
Maybe the board can help me out, but I really can't remember the last time a QB with major accuracy issues eventually became an accurate QB.
While I have never coached college football, I was always very suspect about Milton's prospects of playing qb, which is the hardest position to master. If you have accuracy issues in high school, even with better coaching, do qbs all of a sudden get more accurate in college???
Move him to Tight End
I get the accuracy issues in High School but did I miss something about this still being an issue? He was more accurate than Shea in the Spring game. Why do we need to create drama about a player leaving?
To a lesser extent Justin Herbert. Dude came in throwing absolute laser beams for every pass and has since developed touch and improved accuracy.
McSorley went from throwing jump balls to giants two seasons ago to exhibiting much better accuracy last season.
I hope he figures it out but I'd be surprised if he stuck around after this season.
Way over the skis here. Camp hasn't started yet for Milton's redshirt freshman year and you've already got him transferring? C'mon.
Sure, it could happen. But Milton is also a redshirt freshman this year and is known to be a bit of a project. That he got in games last year tells us that the staff was high on him. There is simply no evidence available to draw conclusions on what progress he has, has not, or will make on his accuracy at Michigan. And it's certainly too early to write him off the roster. Until he gets passed on the depth chart by a younger guy (that's what happened to Peters and what was a good possibility for Speight) there's no reason to think that he'll just light off for somewhere else.
There's a lot of football to be practiced and played between now and the prime of Milton's college career. A million things could change. One of the QBs could get hurt and elevate him to a regularly playing backup, or something changes in McCaffery's trajectory (injury, dissatisfaction, etc) or Michigan strikes gold with a two-QB rotation in such a way that Harbaugh begins dropping hints that he'll keep using it with whomever is in second place in 2020.
Could he transfer? Yeah. When you recruit a QB a year you're going to have QBs transfer. But it's waaaaay too early to write out Milton; at this time last year a lot of people had Milton passing McCaffery, and look how that turned out. Let things play out in their own time.
Fair points, as you always make. Obviously I was not one of those who thought Milton would pass McCaffery, nor was I one who thought McCaffery would pass Shea.
Given the history of QB's with accuracy issues my thinking was that Milton won't be beating him out in 2020 and McCaffery is going to be the starter for two years ('20 and '21) unless he leaves early of course. McCaffery will have had a year of back-up experience ('18) and another year of, alleged, split time in 2019. Really hard to beat out a guy like that. Yes, small sample size for McCaffery but in his limited actual game experience (and pedigree) he's given us pretty solid indication he will continue to improve.
Maybe Milton is cool with sitting for three more years and then heading into his RS Sr as the man. It has happened many times before, but in this day and age it seems unlikely. I don't discount the fact that he could very well be the exception to the rule, this is Michigan after all and not the SEC. But with guys like JJ McCarthy breathing down his neck it was something that popped into my head as a realistic possibility - not a foregone conclusion.
I just don't see him beating out McCaffery is what it comes down to. It's rare to see a QB with accuracy issues suddenly turn it around. Yes, it HAS happened but the odds are not in his favor. I recognize that I absolutely could be VERY wrong and maybe he does stay or could even beat out McCaffery and hold off JJ McCarthy and others.
That said, as you mentioned injuries are common and do change the entire landscape and yes, we could see a split with Milton and McCaffery as well. I didn't mean to come across as though I'm completely writing off Milton's chances, but the odds certainly are not in his favor.
To address another comment on how Milton was 'more' accurate than Shea in the spring game I'll say this.. it was very small sample size in a scrimmage. I take spring game performances (good or bad) with a huge grain of salt.
Regardless of who our QB is/are the next few years we look to be in phenomenal shape at that position. I think we can all agree on that.
I don't think Milton will sit for 3 years and wait his turn if he's good enough to be a top-level starter. But there's a long way to go before that's a factor. He could improve to where he's neck-and-neck with McCaffery by the end of 2020 and beat him for 21. McCaffery could blow up into a top NFL prospect and leave early (it's not at all likely, but there's a scenario where Patterson gets hurt and that happens this year). The season could melt down and McCaffery could transfer out. Milton could blow the doors down next spring with accuracy and beat Caf out straight up.
The point is that there's a lot that needs to play out. When Jake Rudock went down against Minnesota, everyone outside the program was astonished that Wilton Speight was the guy who came in. Nobody could have predicted the progression of starting QBs following the Hoke era (instead of Shane Morris, it was Rudock-Speight-O'Korn-boyarewegladSpeightisbackagainstOSU-Speightsgottheyips-O'Korn-Peters-O'Korn-Peters-Patterson) and there's just not enough to draw any conclusions about the progression of QBs beyond this year.
A lot can change. Frankly, a lot is definitely going to change. Hopefully, the changes are the consequence of wins and quality players on the roster.
I for one, am rooting for Shaka Zulu, and the rest of our QBs.
I for one, am rooting for Shaka Zulu, and the rest of our QBs.
OTOH, with Shea leaving next year, at worse you'd expect Milton to be #2. Then if McCaffery gets injured, Milton is probably #1. No reason for him to transfer at this point or before next season IMO. Milton is still too early in his development to have any idea how he will turn out. From all accounts, he's made great progress, but has more strides to take. This season, Michigan can afford to be patient with him. Next season he will need to step up and be ready to take over if called upon, in whatever role that is.
If McCaffrey comes out of spring practice next year as the clear #1, Milton may well transfer. The chances of him starting before his 5th year, and getting more than one year at the helm will look much smaller to him at that point.
Milton just is not better than McCaffrey. I don't know what video shows he is. I've never seen anything to show he is improving enough to even get out of 3rd string. McCaffrey continues to grow. Milton will likely never catch him.
And it looks like coaches have already spoken to Milton that leaving may be in his best interests.
https://touch-the-banner.com/2019-season-countdown-55-joe-milton/
Someone is likely going to transfer.
QBs, like all football players...want to play. However there is only one ball and generally no rotation even close to a 50/50 split.
I'm not talking about accuracy issues. I didn't bring that up.
I'm just using logic the same way it made sense for Brandon Peters to transfer. Who, IMO was the #3 QB last year for most of the year if it came to it. But we went with #4 Milton in games to get him his 4.
Also, I never had Milton had of McCaffrey. I thought that was fabricated to an extent. Milton was going to get his 4 games and that was that.
Speaking of which. If you have 2 QBs the way Harbaugh says we do...and there is limited mop up time. What if we end up doing the same thing with McNamara? Getting him his 4 games even if he's the clear #4. Milton becomes the Peters at #3 and McNamara becomes the '18 Milton as the freshman #4 QB who has to get 4 "free" games in for experience.
So the thought process is pretty much the exact same one that JUST played out.
Also, I didn't say Milton is or even SHOULD transfer. I said I'd be somewhat shocked if he didn't. That's not over my skies...that's not even a prediction.
Flip the words. "I wouldn't be surprised if he did transfer." Does that work better?
I bet if you polled this board, I wouldn't be close to the only one with that opinion.
For the record, I hope he's the second coming of Cam Newton.
The difference with Peters is he had guys younger than him who were ahead of him, and neither were in their last year of eligibility. Milton will be behind two guys with less eligibility than him, one of whom will be gone after this year for sure. Peters was in a position where he'd never have a starting spot. Milton is not in that spot, and next season he will be one injury away from being the starter.
Thunder had this to say about Joe Milton about a week and a half ago:
word out of Ann Arbor was that the coaching staff sat down with Milton and his family this off-season to explain to him what the future looks like in 2019 and beyond, with the implication that the seaweed might seem greener in somebody else’s lake.
https://touch-the-banner.com/2019-season-countdown-55-joe-milton/
That was the comparison I was thinking of also.
Don't worry. With our luck both Dylan and Shea will get hurt from this arrangement, and Milton will have to close the season.
Et tu HP?
It was sarcasm without the obligatory /s. Feel better now?
Amazing. I hope people don’t just throw out your name for having angina after every game and eventually having a heart attack based on your luck anytime soon.
I see this as good thing for Milton. He has to know he’s probably not beating DMac out for the job next year but if he sees DMac getting a lot of snaps this year it bodes well for him getting a good amount of playing time behind him next year.
This is 100% what I thought. It's designed to keep Milton happy. He can see this year Shea and DMac getting a lot of time on the field this year, so then next year even if he does not beat our DMac he can still play a lot. I don't think its that unreasonable to have a qb wait until year 3 to get meaningful play time where there is quality depth on the chart.
It's definitely a good thing for Milton. It suggests McCaffrey will not be in college for his RS SR season. Plans can obviously change, but I think the coaches are expecting him to go pro after year 4.
In reading what Thunder has said about Milton, it looks like a matter of when, and not if, that Joe Milton is transferring.
That is exactly what it is. Dylan is too good to just sit on the bench. He’s pushing Shea hard and deserves to get a lot of playing time. It’s a nice problem to have
True, but Kyler Murray didn't play behind Baker Mayfield. And Kyler is one of the greatest pure football talents we've ever seen.
Two QBs doesn't sit well with me either. Maybe he could bring McCaffey in sooner in blow outs than he would usually bring in a back up, like maybe when Michigan is getting out to a comfortable lead in the 1st half, bring McCaffrey in half way through the 2nd QTR, and leave him in until half way through the 4th QTR, at which time you'd bring in the 3rd and 4th QBs.
Two basically starting QBs sounds too cute by half. And being too cute by half in a dangerous sport like football is, well, dangerous.
No problem, here's what you do.
Start Shea because he's the senior. In the 2nd quarter, bench Shea and break out Dylan regardless of game situation. Give the second half to whoever did better with his quarter.
I see no downside to this
Hmm, that seems to be the same as the Brady-Henson platooning that was retrospectively condemned around here.
thatsthejoke.gif
The poster was certainly referring to that situation. You took the oblique reference and made it very clear.
Where’s the fun in that, though? :)
brad = Lloyd Carr
Exactly. Don't understand where this came from other than just getting Dylan some time in the 1st half and playing the 4th in games that are I'm hand makes sense. We have a legit starter for once. Why mess with this?
Maybe Shea isn’t as legit of the starter as you think. It’s very possible Dylan is right there with him and deserves to be playing