Former Michigan Player, DB Benjamin St-Juste, now at Minnesota, tweet about medical condition...
Here's my guess - if you're a good team and there is a player with an injury that is unlikely to get better quickly or allow the player to play at an elite level, you'd rather use that scholarship on someone else. If you're a mediocre team, you're willing to take a chance that that guy recovers and becomes a solid player because you aren't pulling in 4 stars at his position on the regular. Similar to Pipkins.
Even if a medical condition isn't certainly "career ending" but is "you might be good again in 2 years" the big time schools don't want to reserve your scholarship to take that chance.
Possibly - or else he received the same diagnosis/prognosis in both places and was given the choice whether to ignore it at one of them.
With all we know now about injuries and long term health I understand why someplace like Michigan would be very cautious. And after the Shane Morris fiasco the Michigan team doctors have rightfully come to have considerably more influence.
Thought, if St. Juste were to be seriously injured at Minnesota (one surely hopes not) as a result of something the Michigan doctors identified, what would Minnesota's legal exposure be?
The team doctors at Michigan don't report to Harbaugh at all, not even to the Athletic Dept. I find it hard to believe they'd rule a kid out with an eye on the depth chart. I think it's simply a case where there's a difference in medical opinion.
BSJ probably talked to a lot of teams that wouldn't clear him too, prior to finding one that would. It's just a self selecting thing that if you ask enough doctors, you'll probably find one that gives you the answer you want.
I’m just gonna day this the way it is and you can take it for what it’s worth. Not saying this is what happened here, but if you think the “Team” doesn’t have bearing on weather a player is medically retired you are so wrong and have no idea how it works in college. I know some teams personally who have and do this. Just saying. Believe what you will from the outside looking in. But I tend to think here at Michigan we are very cautious moving forward with any type of injuries after Morris.
August 8th, 2019 at 10:17 PM ^
Not saying it doesn't happen elsewhere, but at Michigan there's by design no conflict of interest for a doctor to clear a player or not. As you said, after the Morris thing, Michigan is extra cautious.
Yes, I realize medical redshirting is a team, coaches, and player decision, but keeping a player out of participation is not.
Completely wrong on your assessment. Doctors evaluate players and keep the coaches abreast of their condition as far if they are cleared to play or not. And u can be cleared to play and still get a medical as long as you have some type of condition documented. A medical can be given for a broad range of conditions. Players are treated differently based on talent. For example Mo Hurst had a diagnosis heart issue, probably at the top of the list for qualifying for a medical and he was allowed to play. Grant Newsome nearly died from his leg injury and he wasn’t given a medical until it was clear there was no coming back from it. While others have what amounts to a hang nail and get a medical only to go someplace else and play out there career. Most medical are just for roster management.
Plus 1 to you. Chances are much greater that he will be passed on the depth chart at a top school. It is a win win. Michigan continues to recruit top. talent and BSJ gets to play the game.
"As long as you ROW THE BOAT!!!! You can play here!"
-PJ (Underoos) Fleck
It could be that their team doc has a different opinion, or maybe his recovery went much better than what was expected.
I'm not sensing any negative undertones in this tweet. He just seems happy to be on the field.
Exactly. 2 solid doctors can certainly disagree about a diagnosis, especially if it’s the vague definition of “career ending”.
I mean, are Michigan and the Raiders medical clearances different than the teams that thought Mo Hurst should never play again? Or would other NBA teams have told Kevin Durant not to play in the finals? It seems Michigan had more concern with whatever the medical issue was than Minnesota, but I'm not sure that's particularly strange.
Yeah it's possible they are. On another message board a similar topic came up - Jeff Zuttah in 2003, not cleared by Michigan due to Sickle Cell Anemia (don't know the details). Played at Stanford, and ultimately shut it down within a year.
Matt Falcon is another. Ultimately cleared by WMU, but barely lasted for health issues.
Quintel Kent, who knows about him.
Bottom line is I think the doctors are generally looking out for the kids best interest and not part of "processing." If another team wants to clear them, fine, as long as it's not life threatening - but it doesn't mean it's the "correct" or "right" move for the kid in the long term. Of course there are probably examples of it working out for the kid too.
I, as a WMU alum, was hoping Falcon could get back to what he had been as a HS RB. Unfortunately he was never right and should’ve quit the game earlier. Fleck also took a flyer on him in 2016 as he redshirted and Fleck left for Minn. By 2017 he had rehabbed for a year and Coach Lester played him on ST and as a RB for very little of ‘17. Sadly, he just didn’t look good out there after the knee injuries took their toll.
I hope he gets his WMU degree. After saying no thank you to one from U-M.
Pipkins another example. Not cleared to play here but TT let him play. And OSU didn't clear that DB that switched to Auburn.
Jamel Dean is the kid who went from OSU to Auburn. He was the first that came to my mind too because his family was not happy with OSU. He had a season ending injury at Auburn too but the Bucs drafted him anyway.
Freddy Canteen was another one. IIRC he reinjured his shoulder a couple more times after transferring and then hung up the cleats.
Mo Hurst and the NFL draft
I have no clue what his injury problems consisted of, but there are certainly injuries that could be life altering if not taken seriously
(Read this article about Lawrence Reid https://www.michigandaily.com/content/injury-ends-reids-career)
So, just because he's being given another chance by Fleck doesn't mean it's the best thing for him. Because if he suffers a life altering injury it's no sweat off Fleck's back.
Who knows? Maybe Harbaugh just wanted to process him to bring in a DB of greater value. I'm only speculating either way.
Good posts, all. I don't think this was a case of Benjamin-St Juste getting processed - if only because DB depth was/is a concern. If there was a way, I think our medical staff would have given him some time. Good luck to him.
Yeah it seems unlikely we would “process” him at such a position of need. Seems more likely we were looking out for his health, but Fleck had other thoughts
In this case I’m skeptical of the processing argument, primarily because of the CB depth chart. If he were fully healthy and at full speed, I’d have to believe he’d have had a chance to be a real contributor.
"they was?"
AAVE, my nautical companion. https://web.stanford.edu/~zwicky/aave-is-not-se-with-mistakes.pdf
Riiiight!
Did he not see the Grammarly ads on YouTube?
Why do our guys only transfer to other Big Ten teams lately. It bothers me and I dont know why.
AFAIK the docs' decision is the docs' decision. I would be shocked if Harbaugh meddled with a kid's health. And, I haven't met a UMICH doc whose opinion I wouldn't highly respect. It sounds to me like a case of patient getting second opinions until he finds one that he likes. I hope it doesn't backfire on him in a life-threatening way. Sometimes we forget that these are kids.
Take the risk ... if its your decision. Good luck.
Let’s be honest here, he wasn’t performing and was pushed out gently with a medical that way Michigan wouldn’t look bad because he would still get a education.. Then a scholarship was able to open up
Let’s be honest here .... you have no idea what actually happened and you’re purely making shit up.
He might have been pushed out. Or maybe Minnesota is more willing to roll the dice on a player's health. I will never know which is true so I don't care.
31 NFL teams thought Mo Hurst was too risky to draft. So far Oakland is right. Doesn't make the others wrong.
Best of luck to BSJ.
Given the current depth at CB, I can’t see him being pushed out if they thought he had a legitimate shot at playing.
I wish him luck and hope he has a good career, injury free. I'm sure the Michigan doctors are hoping for that, too...
I also hope he enrolls in an English class, because the word 'cause' is used totally wrong in that tweet. Using 'cause' the way he did is the mark of ignorance and carelessness - and yes, I know a lot of posters here use it that way. This is my hill.
Wait, “cause” concerns you more than “they was”?
And I'm willing to bet that his grammar was in the 3.0 range.
Haha!!! I didn't even notice that! 'Cause' triggered me - I need to work on settling down after a trigger event! LOL!!
Too much poutine had given him gout.
I'll trust the medical staff at UM over Minny any day.
I get the kid wants to play, but is squeezing out a couple extra years of football worth potentially years or decades of pain and issues later in life? Unfortunately young men sometimes don't have the perspective to consider such things.
If Minnesota's medical staff and protocol is anything like Purdue's I could see how he could be cleared.
Here's my guess:
He had a stinger, and his MRI showed a congenitally narrowed spinal canal (No spare room for the spinal cord). Because of the nature of the symptoms, and mechanism of injury (Relatively minimal trauma), they thought he was at high risk for a potential future cord injury, and were unwilling to allow him to take a future risk by playing.
He found a team with doctors that had a different opinion. (I've seen many worse that never had a problem. It could have been a fluke. It's up to you to decide, knowing the risks, but I don't see anything that would prevent me from clearing you to play.)
August 8th, 2019 at 10:51 PM ^
My assumption is that he had an injury that could conceivably bar him from seeing the field, yet has enough uncertainty around it that another staff could look at it and, with a different perspective, see it working out. I remember Ondre Pipkins had a number of injuries and was told he likely wouldn't play again. He didn't agree and went to Texas Tech, where he was able to start and provide consistent play for the Red Raiders. Since then, though, he's bounced around NFL practice squads, and I faintly remember at least one stop ending prematurely because of a recurring injury.
Do I think Michigan would rather have a scholarship than a guy who isn't going to be able to perform at an expected level? Sure. And does that lead to undue pressure on guys? Yep. It sucks and it's one of the (many) reasons why I think players should be able to draw compensation from their time on a roster, but the practice isn't going anywhere and Michigan shouldn't be above it. In Pipkins case it didn't matter; they weren't at a scholarship crunch and Pipkins was a senior the year they told him to retire; they didn't have an immediate need for the space. St Juste is a bit different because he still had a couple of years. At the same time, it wouldn't shock me if he struggled to stay on the field at Minnesota, even though I wish him the best and hope he proves me wrong.
August 8th, 2019 at 11:38 PM ^
Similarly, Ohio State medically disqualified Jamel Dean, who had a history of knee issues. He transferred to Auburn, tore his knee, recovered, and was a 3rd round pick by Tampa Bay.
August 8th, 2019 at 11:58 PM ^
Doctors often have differing opinions on such things. My right knee has extensive old damage, and the doctor who treats me says I really need knee replacement surgery. Because of some of my other health issues, he says he wouldn't perform the surgery, but he knows someone who probably would. I decided I would rather play it safe and live with the pain than risk surgery. I don't consider one doctor right and the other wrong, it's just some are more cautious than others.
August 9th, 2019 at 12:11 AM ^
FWIW, St Juste said he was cleared by independent doctors in Indiana. No idea how much shopping around he had to do before he ended up in Indiana. This article also makes it sound like his issues were hamstring-related: https://247sports.com/college/minnesota/Article/Michigan-CB-Benjamin-St-Juste-explains-his-Minnesota-decision-132261126/
If it's the same doctor or doctors who treated Drake Harris, I can see why they might advise him to medically retire from football.
August 9th, 2019 at 10:07 AM ^
Whatever. And if Michigan cleared him to play with this mystery injury that he won't disclose and he got seriously injured then Michigan and Harbaugh would be in deep shit
August 10th, 2019 at 12:22 PM ^
It’s a “processing” plain and simple. Harbaugh is doing what we used to tsk tsk tsk the other programs for doing.
Kids playing ball elsewhere, wasn’t going to cut it here.
If we want to be better than just pretty good, this happens. If we want to be morally superior and 10-2 we keep guys like this for 5 years and waste a scholarship, want to contend, we shed the dead weight.