Fab Five and the "Swag" rebirth…...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV-O5Q8owhw
Still floating off of the ridiculousness that was last night....here's a little Fab Five Highlight to get you through your work day. The passion and "swag" (per Belein) that The Fab Five played with has been often emulated but never authentically duplicated. The last two seasons in Ann Arbor have given way to a bit of a rebirth of the old swagger in my humble opinon.
Nik "More than just a shooter" Stauskas, Caris "Forrest" Levert and Glenn " More than just a Dunker" Robinson III are beginning to remind us of some of the historically great times in Michigan Basketball. 2013 put Michigan Basketball back in the National Spotlight and 2014 is doing a hell of a job of keeping it there! Here's to a 4 min highlight of great Michigan Memories and plenty more from the 2014 edition. Go Blue!
February 27th, 2014 at 10:08 AM ^
..this video has been posted at any point on this site. I for one can never get tired of watching The Fab Five. They were the most polarizing item I have ever witnessed in Michigan sports and have forever stamped their signature in Michigan Basketball.
February 27th, 2014 at 10:35 AM ^
Forgot to Embed.
February 27th, 2014 at 10:39 AM ^
they were A THREAT. I've combed through the ashes of the debacle plenty and still have a milliion mixed emotions, especially about Webber's wrongdoings, alleged and real. But considering the hatred they brought out in all the right people, it is regrettable that their enemies were given the ammo to neutralize/blunt the powerful challenge they presented. I will never give up that part of the love and awe I hold for them.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:05 AM ^
This notion that while they were still in school, the Fab Five were "divisive" or viewed as a threat.
I was there; I held season basketball tickets through those seasons. I never once saw or heard any "division" or "divisiveness." There was no such division on campus; just lots of fun watching a good (if under-performing in the biggest games) team. The team felt home-bred, even though just two of the guys (Webber and Rose) were from Detroit. Local media loved the Fab Five. There was no MGoBlog. No Facebook. No Twitter. The Free Press had no website, and consequently no comments pages. The internet was for information technology professionals.
The myth -- apparently based on a single documentary film dramatizing some negative letters (letters used to be things written on paper and sent through a delivery service called the U.S. Postal Service in envelopes with stamps on them) sent in to the Michigan Athletic Department at 1000 South State Street, or to the president of the University or to members of the Board of Regents -- was that there was a sizable contingent of alumni and fans of Michigan basketball who protested the appearance and attitutde of the Fab Five. The fans may have been more right than anybody knew, if they had only criticized Chris Webber's then-unknown corruption. But for anyone who thinks that there was any sort of serious, non-fringe divisiveness surrounding the Fab Five...
it is a completely myth, made up for current consumption.
If anybody has copies of any of the alleged letters, by all means say so and we can examine them for content, number, and authorship.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:27 AM ^
February 27th, 2014 at 11:30 AM ^
... but it remains true that the Jim Nantz's and Bob Knight's of the world (one a media establishment tool, the other an old-school authoritarian, player-choking a-hole) had a palpable distaste for the Fab Five, at least judging from the documentary evidence.
They may not have been a divisive force on campus, but it seems clear that the Fab Five got up the noses of NCAA shills and the coaching fraternity.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:53 AM ^
"the establishment" like knight and keady etc just felt threatened by the fab 5, and along with many commentators, did not like their style and court presence....ridiculous. the fab 5 and unlv running teams out of gyms in such a quick span scared the hell out of the "establishment," those older dudes simply feared change. younger kids, especially freshmen, were not supposed to be able to compete with, let alone beat, knight coached teams with "experience" who "played the right way"....and they certainly were not supposed to succeed while acting so brash and outrageous and disgracing the game...just ridiculous. they forever changed the game and culture of college sports, obviously for the better as its never been more entertaining or opened so many doors for young kids. and all those old dudes who ripped the fab 5 either from the sidelines or behind a mic, theyre all prospering and making more money now than ever based on evolution of the sport post-1990, if theyre not taking dirt naps
February 27th, 2014 at 12:26 PM ^
And by extension, I think Knight probably had some disdain for Fisher too.
Knight wanted to beat Michigan all the time. But he didn't hate everything about Michigan. As I mentioned, Schembechler and Knight were good friends and under other/different circumstances, Schembechler as AD might well have hired Knight.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:58 AM ^
the letters--that's your tangent. But if you think the Fab Five didn't rub people--all the right people--the wrong way, you're crazy. And the kind of social display that they made public, prominent, and (in so doing) acceptable continues to antagonize a hell of a lot of people. Go look at the hate manifested nightly toward the NBA at cbssports or ESPN. Plenty of it lingers here. Plain and simple: some of us liked the thumb that Webber stuck in many people's eyes; it kicked ass and named names. It synced with the rise of hiphop culture. And no one gives a damn about whether they won the NC or not. A lot fewer people remember that Duke team, and those who do mostly remember them in the context of their Michigan antagonists. Coach K rep'd a certain idea of propriety, how kids should be taught to conform/behave. The Fab V certainly didn't.
February 27th, 2014 at 12:28 PM ^
...in your assertion -- twice -- that "all the right people" were offended by the Fab Five.
That's really the point. The view that some people need to be offended.
Plain and simple; some of us view the contributions of people like Bob Knight, Knight's protege Mike Krzyzewski, Knight's personal friend Bo Schembechler, Schembechler's mentor Woody Hayes, etc., etc., as infinitely more important to collegiate athletics than the two scandal-tainted years Chris Webber was in Ann Arbor.
February 27th, 2014 at 12:54 PM ^
Those great coaches and leaders can still be important to the history of college athletics and also be ignorant and close-minded to cultural change. You don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Also, I can't speak for the OP, but I strongly believe that some people do need to be offended. The old guard more often than not needs to be offended because it's an effective way to expose their ignorance and motivate/align the party of change. Just because Knight, Bo, etc. did some great things, it doesn't mean we have to be sensitive to their uneasiness about shifts in the culture of the sport.
February 27th, 2014 at 1:12 PM ^
February 27th, 2014 at 2:41 PM ^
Just think about these words: "The old guard more often than not needs to be offended..."
More often than not. They need to be offended.
Mission accomplished. I never thought of myself as "old guard" in any particular way. And I remember cheering for Jalen, Chris, Juwan, Jimmy and Ray. But you have offended me, so you've got that going for you.
Just to be clear, I am offended by people who presume to know eyewitness kind of stuff when they weren't there.
I am waiting fo the first non-millenial Michigan fan to come on here and say that they were there, and that they recall some really clear evidence of division, divisiveness or hostility when the Fab Five were playing. I don't see it happening.
"[E]xpose their ignorance" is what you wrote. Lulz. Expose the ignorance of the people who were actually there?
February 27th, 2014 at 4:56 PM ^
Some of us view the contributions of people like Bob Knight, Knight's protege Mike Krzyzewski, Knight's personal friend Bo Schembechler, Schembechler's mentor Woody Hayes, etc., etc., as infinitely more important to collegiate athletics than the two scandal-tainted years Chris Webber was in Ann Arbor
"Some of us"...but not "all of us"; at least not those of us who have the ability to consider context.
You identify two groups of people: a) old white guys and b) young black kids with baggy shorts and black socks. You note the former to have been "infinitely more important to college athletics". Perhaps within the instutional construct you are correct. That said, your narrative is a seriously limited one.
The concept of "contribution" that you bring up is also an interesting one. You don't define it. At a sociocultural level I think you'd have a hard time arguing the Fab 5's lasting and remarkably game changing influence vs. your crew of "old white guys" as I identiifed. I think this is the point: Knight, Bo, Coach K and Woody all "contributed" at an institutional level.
The nature of the Fab 5's "contribution" is bigger than that. It's regrettable your focus is so narrow you can't see that.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:57 AM ^
I too had season tickets and largely agree with your assessment. There were some, (including the perceived bluebloods who sat on their hands at half-court) who were initially embarrassed by the Fab Five, then quietly came to accept them, and finally (largely) embraced them in an "I can be hip" kinda way. Plus there was the whole "us against the world" feel.
February 27th, 2014 at 12:00 PM ^
cedes it. But I was talking about the Fab Five in ther national, cultural context; Section One came up with the stuff about the letters and campus.
February 27th, 2014 at 12:37 PM ^
I was there for the first game where Jalen started and was pretty amazing as a freshman. I was there when they all played together the first time, and I think I was around when they all started together (or at least the first time they all started together in Crisler). There was nothing but enthusiasm and a feeling of novelty. Crisler in those days was no less supportive than if the five of them showed up next weekend.
This myth about the Fab Five facing some sort of wall of prejudice is absolutely ridiculous. If some of their attitudes, statements and behaviors got called out in media stories, it is only because it was worth it to the media to talk about it. That's what the media does.
February 27th, 2014 at 12:02 PM ^
with them for all of the usual well-known reasons, but they were a very small minority that was just very loud.
As for their under-performing in the biggest games, they were only intact through their sophomore seasons. Had they all stayed for four years, I think they would have dislodged that monkey from their backs on numerous occasions.
February 27th, 2014 at 12:18 PM ^
Although it is a remarkably celebrated team, considering they didn't win anything of any consequence.
They were fun to watch. I was there, rooting for them. They played very well. I wish they had all stayed four years and all had gotten degrees. And that none of them took any of Ed Martin's numbers-racket money.
They would have been great as seniors. But they chose differently.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:25 AM ^
... and followed the two Final Four runs on Sky Sports News, but was an ocean apart from the cultural phenomena and threat you describe. Never saw a complete game.
I returned to the US in 2007, and that summer needed some new kicks to play pick-up hoops. Went to the store and saw all these black, ankle-length Nike socks on sale. "What a vast improvement on white, knee-length tube socks", said I.
Had no idea until the 30 for 30 doc that the Fab Five introduced those black socks, to some controversy. Turns out I'm a Wolverine camp follower even without realizing it.
February 27th, 2014 at 10:16 AM ^
One of the members of the Fab Five definitely left a "stamp" on the program that lasted a long time, that's for sure.....
Notice how the 1989 team is being honored Saturday? They don't campaign and plead in the media to be honored, the University comes to them.
Same thing with the BTN documentary. They didn't go out and make one because they want attention. BTN came to THEM and demanded a show.
February 27th, 2014 at 10:20 AM ^
Juwan, Jimmy, and Ray, got hosed, by all this... they did no wrong, and aren't really honored. What a pleasure it was, watching them play.
February 27th, 2014 at 10:31 AM ^
Yes, this. I know people get sick of the Fab 5 getting brought up, but remember it wasn't just Webber (or Webber and Rose). I loved the Fab 5. People don't have to piss and moan about Webber just because someone posted a highlight video.
EDIT: I get sick of the near weekly threads about a Jalen comment too, but someone points out he's usually responding to a direct question about the Fab 5, such as the one last week or so when Rose told off Webber.
February 27th, 2014 at 10:31 AM ^
Jimmy and Ray were brought back for the Legends Classic and honored. Juwan had an NBA game, but I'm sure they'll have him back.
The 100th year of Michigan Basketball is coming up in a couple of years. I think they're going to welcome everyone back from past eras. I'm sure he'll show.
February 27th, 2014 at 10:37 AM ^
By the time I got to campus, it was just Jimmy King and Ray Jackson left. Even as the least heralded members of the Fab Five, I was amazed at how good they were, and how much more fun to watch than the other players on the team. I have a soft spot for Ray Jackson, in particular.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:35 AM ^
February 27th, 2014 at 10:20 AM ^
Juwan, Jimmy, and Ray, got hosed, by all this... they did no wrong, and aren't really honored. What a pleasure it was, watching them play.
February 27th, 2014 at 10:54 AM ^
I'll pos you again.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:01 AM ^
I agree with this also. Juwan is easily my favorite player from the Fab Five team. He always brought his lunchpail every night. Plus, he had the longest NBA career of all of them. I always repected Ray for his suffocating defense, but he was not an offensive mastermind. Jimmy was the high flyer, and he had a decent shot too.
While I like Jalen when he was here, it wasn't until Larry Bird stuck with him in Indiana, that he became an absolute stud. When he was here, his jump shot and 3 point shot were fugly. He was mostly a guy who used his size to dominate. He never wowed me here, hate to say it.
C-Web was just a monster, and even though I do't care for him for what happened to the basketball program for 10 years, I can't deny that he is one of the 5 best players I have seen in a Michigan uniform.
February 27th, 2014 at 10:24 AM ^
they're champions. The Fab Five are cultural icons.
Also the 1989 team didn't get their banner taken down even though they won their region with all eligible players.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:07 AM ^
February 27th, 2014 at 11:35 AM ^
The 1989 team doesn't need to go out and gin up recognition because they're champions. They're a run-of-the-mill tournament winner.
The Fab Five does have to go our and gin up media attention because they've been made victims of circumstance. They were a cultural movement, which always have a counter and which resides among a huge portion of the alumni base, and that caused them to lose a banner that they fairly won. Michigan big wigs want to ignore the Fab Five, unlike the 1989 team.
What does that have to do with last year?
February 27th, 2014 at 5:48 PM ^
By this logic we might as well throw away the 2013 Final Four banner though.What "logic" would that be?
February 27th, 2014 at 10:25 AM ^
The Fab 5 were iconic and a watershed moment in sports. During their two year run everyone was all in.
February 27th, 2014 at 10:29 AM ^
I like them and enjoy watching old games of theirs. I just don't like two of the five members very much anymore.
Juwan, Jimmy and Ray are great.
February 27th, 2014 at 10:42 AM ^
to acknowledge that and move on. At least, that's one of your possible options. For all of the fallout, I would still rather they had existed than not, by a country mile. . .
February 27th, 2014 at 10:47 AM ^
I can respect that.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:01 AM ^
February 27th, 2014 at 11:41 AM ^
Also gives a lot of money to underprivileged kids in Detroit. Sure, he has strong opinions (so does Desmond Howard) but he's not at all a bad guy.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:44 AM ^
I don't hate him.
I just am tired of him saying ridiculous things in media and taking attention away from the current team and program who are winning big & doing things the right way.
That comment he had about picking state to win back in January because they treat their former players better was the last straw for me.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^
He only takes attention away fron the current team if you let him. Who cares what he says? Him talking takes zero attention away from this team or any other team.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:48 AM ^
Did you ever consider that maybe he's right? Maybe Michigan (or Michigan basketball) doesn't do as good of a job as other schools in treating their former players. Just because someone says something bad about Michigan doesn't make them wrong.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:57 AM ^
I'd love to know what he's basing his statement on.
This is the first time I've heard anything like this.
February 27th, 2014 at 12:11 PM ^
I also don't know what he's basing it on, but because of that, I can't criticize him for it either. It's unlikley any of us have any real knowledge about how MIchigan compares to other schools in this regard, so how can we get pissed at him for speaking out?
Maybe he's unjustly pissed off. But I certainly don't know that to be the case either. Considering all that the Fab 5 did for the athletic department from an image standpoint, I would like to know that those guys (outside of Webber, I suppose, but that's a bigger discussion) are treated like kings around here. Dave Brandon's view toward Jalen should be something like "Hey you know we had to take down those banners, but if you need anything from us, just ask" type of thing.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:17 AM ^
... that even our greatest heros can be all too human. Pays to keep perspective. NOTE: meant as a reply to HTown Wolverine on "I think one member of the 89"
February 27th, 2014 at 3:24 PM ^
All goes back to the diseased mentality that NCAA rules are the most sacred prism to view old players and coaches through, often by the same people who admit NCAA rules are a complete farce.
So tired of the sanctimonious crap. Seems like we have even more than usual in our fan base that play these cards and they wear it like a badge of honor, unaware of how ludicrous they sound.
February 27th, 2014 at 10:40 AM ^
^^^^100%.
This is why the 89 team will always be my favorite team in Michigan history. The fab five was great, but to me they were a little too much style over substance. I hate the word "swag" also. Back in the day when Glen Rice would drop 30+ on fools, he didn't need to throw up the three goggles and dance down the court any time he scored, he was all business, and I think the fab five was more showbusiness than business.
Plus, like I always say, the fab five won NOTHING. They were entertaining for sure, but I would take 89 over them any day of the week.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:20 AM ^
They went to 2 National Championships and came up short. The idea that they were "all talk, no walk" because of that is ludicrous. Just like last year's team, they did PLENTY walking and just came up short where 66 other teams could only be in their dreams. Hate that line of thinking.
February 27th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^
... you follow Bob Knight. It's simply bitterness that fuels this view, IMO. And it's a silly and insincere slight of the teams that beat the Fab Five. Given the (justifiable) idolatry of the Tobacco Road Two, would anyone consider it surprising or a particular shortcoming to loose consecutive finals to Duke and UNC? That Duke team was one of the strongest in memory. And Dean Smith. And coach K.