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D Zone Article on Urban Meyer and Negative Recruiting

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:03 AM
#1
Blarvey
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Joined: 11/21/2011
MGoPoints: 2384
D Zone Article on Urban Meyer and Negative Recruiting

http://www.thedzone.net/2014/07/top-recruit-ohio-state-trashes-michigan....

The whole piece uses an anonymous source to relay what happened on a recruiting trip to OSU back on May 31, especially Urban Meyer's bashing of UM. I am not familiar with the site so if it is questionable or whatever, feel free to remove this.

Some highlights (emphasis mine):

 

After a standard day of touring, the players and their families were brought into the Ohio State team room for a meeting. In the meeting, head coach Urban Meyer talked to the players directly about the state of Michigan, the University of Michigan, and Michigan State University. Meyer pounded several topics mostly about the University of Michigan into the players and their families’ heads, according to Anonymous. “It was in their team room. There were probably about 70 recruits and family members in there. All the coaching staff agreed with him [Urban Meyer], they loved it,” Anonymous said. “It was basically bashing over and over. They called them ‘the school up north,’ they wouldn’t even call them by their name.” Several topics were brought forward from the coaching staff during the meeting, but Meyer was the leader. “It was really Coach Meyer that was talking bad.”
A key point of the meeting was the lack of respect for the Michigan coaching staff. “They talked a lot about how [the Michigan] coaches like to blame losses on the players. And how the Ohio State coaching staff would never do that and accept their part of the loss. How the Michigan coaches wouldn’t accept accountability for something they did wrong.” “They always wanted to pin it on ‘Oh well, Devin Gardner didn’t do this, or Jeremy Gallon didn’t run fast enough on this play, or Taylor Lewan wasn’t blocking hard enough on this play.’ They were saying that the coaches are responsible for that so don’t blame that on the players. They just don’t have good enough coaches.” Paralleling the Michigan coaching staff, was the lack of player development in regards to the “high level” recruits that Michigan gets. “Another point is that the player development, from a standpoint of them having some of the best players in the country and still not being able to win more than seven games, Rose Bowl, or a National Title.”
“They spent a lot of time focusing on Michigan rather than themselves,” Anonymous said. “When we went to Michigan, they didn’t talk about Ohio State at all.”
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July 17th, 2014 at 9:06 AM
#2
FreddieMercuryHayes
Joined: 12/29/2010
MGoPoints: 35030
Well...seems like maybe the

Well...seems like maybe the UM coaching staff needs to change their tactics then. Recruiting seems to be going very well for OSU under Meyer.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:09 AM
(Reply to #2) #3
SteveE
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Joined: 05/23/2012
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Good point. After all, Hoke

Good point. After all, Hoke and company have really been awful at the whole recruiting thing ever since they got here . . .

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:18 AM
(Reply to #3) #4
FreddieMercuryHayes
Joined: 12/29/2010
MGoPoints: 35030
It was a semi-sarcastic

It was a semi-sarcastic comment. But I don't find anything wrong with what Meyer said. As for UM, first two full classes were amazing. Then this last class the staff couldn't even fill the open scholly spots because of the toxic aura around the program, while OSU is going strong. Now a 5-star RB previously committed to UM may be going to OSU. Frankly, just win and recruiting will take care of itself. UM needs to stop putting the gun to its own head and letting Meyer pull the trigger.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:19 AM
(Reply to #11) #5
Magnus
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Joined: 07/17/2008
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What do you mean by "they

What do you mean by "they couldn't fill the last class"? Every school gets 85 scholarships, and Michigan has 82 accounted for, not including guys who played/have played a lot such as Joey Burzynski, Joe Kerridge, and Ryan Glasgow, who all came to Michigan as walk-ons. Perhaps the coaches wanted to give those three guys scholarships. Perhaps the coaches were satisfied with the players they had. Do you REALLY not think that the coaches could have pulled in another recruit if they had chosen to do so? Usually, there are some end-of-the-cycle offers to fill spots (such as Dennis Norfleet) and poach players, but Michigan didn't do anything like that this year except sending out feeler offers to a couple running backs like Minnesotan Jeff Jones (who didn't qualify).

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:36 AM
(Reply to #65) #6
Trader Jack
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Joined: 04/27/2010
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I think what he's saying is

I think what he's saying is that it seemed like the coaches were saving the last couple spots for recruits (like Hand and McDowell) they thought they would get, even at the expense of other recruits (like Montae Nicholson) that might've wanted to commit. Those spots ended up not being filled when UM missed on big targets at the end. If that's what he's saying, it's a fair point.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:46 AM
(Reply to #86) #7
Magnus
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Joined: 07/17/2008
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Fair enough. Then there are

Fair enough. Then there are 120+ other teams out there who "couldn't fill their class" because Malik McDowell and Da'Shawn Hand did not commit to them, either.

As I mentioned above, taking McDowell and/or Hand would require keeping Kerridge, R. Glasgow, etc. off of scholarship. Perhaps those were the guys they deemed worth it. "Well, if we can get McDowell, then __________ will just have to remain a walk-on. That sucks for him, but we have to do what's best for the program."

When Ty Isaac transferred to Michigan, that bumped someone off of a scholarship. One of the nation's top running backs is worth reverting a backup offensive guard to walk-on status. Maybe Montae Nicholson (247 Composite #18 safety, #201 overall) isn't.

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:30 AM
(Reply to #11) #8
Don
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Now a 5-star RB previously committed to UM may be going to OSU.

Which, if it occurs, happened precisely because Al Borges—a friend of Harris's HS coach—was fired.

That would be the same Al Borges you proceeded to slam downthread for "throwing the players under the bus" who undoubtedly contributed to the "toxic aura" you allege surrounds the program.

So make up your mind—do you want Al Borges to remain on the staff so Damien Harris doesn't decommit, or do you want Al Borges fired because he sucked?

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:58 AM
(Reply to #116) #9
CLord
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Borges was the worst

Borges was the worst coordinator in Michigan history so the latter.

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:16 PM
(Reply to #127) #10
Don
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Borges was the worst coordinator in Michigan history

Al may have had his faults, but nobody can touch GERG for all-time badness.

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:28 PM
(Reply to #142) #11
aiglick
Joined: 11/27/2010
MGoPoints: 7860
It's fair to say GERG didn't

It's fair to say GERG didn't light the world on fire here but he did have a pretty good season with Texas last year. When they promoted him to interim coordinator I thought Texas was making the biggest mistake ever. Instead they actually turned around their season to a degree.

I guess what I'm saying is that it was a team effort to turn in the defensive performances of 2009 and 2010 and that maybe it wasn't entirely GERG's fault for those two years.

Water under the bridge now of course.

 

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July 17th, 2014 at 1:57 PM
(Reply to #142) #12
CLord
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I sized the two up next to

I sized the two up next to each other and went with Borges as the worst simply because Gerg had more outs.  

1. RichRod was forcing the Gerginator to run a scheme he wasn't comfortable with.  

2. RichRod's quickfire offense lends itself to unbalanced field time for his defenses.  

3. Gerg was saddled with Obi Eze, and the Michigan's DB equivalent of IowaRBHatingGod.

4. Gerg had one less year to form the D as his own.  

5. Borges' offense in his third year achieved historic lows despite occasional sparks of life vs ND and Ohio.  At least RR and Gerg were trendign positive in year 3.

Worst ever - Borges

2nd worst ever - Gergs

Bronze medal - Ron English - On whom I put over 50% of the blame (Carr the other 50%) leaading to the current 6 years dip in Michigan football.  English single-handedly made Armanti Edwards and Dennis Dixon look like all-world spread gods, assuredly impacting AD Martin into having RIchRod be his choice  once the first/second options fell through.

We're still recovering.  But as bad as it's been, at least we've never hired the sleazebags and cheaters Columbus hires.

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July 17th, 2014 at 2:42 PM
(Reply to #169) #13
Don
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I see your five reasons for Borges and raise you one for GERG

As far as I know, Al Borges never rubbed a stuffed animal in the face of any UM player.

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July 17th, 2014 at 3:42 PM
(Reply to #169) #14
Mr Miggle
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Joined: 10/07/2010
MGoPoints: 31171
I think it's not even close in the other direction.

Your first point is what does it for me. It was apparent that GERG knew practically nothing about the 3-3-5 when he was canned. He either didn't bother to or was incapable of learning it. My vote is for the former. As far as Obi Ezeh, after he had been replaced by Demens, it was RR who had to intervene after GERG sent him back out to MLB. Maybe GERG would have been competent running his own system, but as far as doing the job he was hired to do, he's the worst ever in my book.

No doubt Borges had a bad year in 2013. He didn't adapt well to the big hole in our offense. He wasn't so bad until then so I don't know where to place him overall. Agree completely with your last point.  

 

 

 

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July 18th, 2014 at 12:00 AM
(Reply to #169) #15
clarkiefromcanada
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Joined: 11/21/2008
MGoPoints: 37504
Jeebus

Get off Obi Ezeh's ass. Guy worked like hell with the talent he had.

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:22 PM
(Reply to #116) #16
carlos spicywiener
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Joined: 05/03/2014
MGoPoints: 23525
If we have to sacrifice one

If we have to sacrifice one skilled player to get rid of the mastermind behind the worst offense in tackles for loss in the country, I'm all F!$#% for it.

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July 17th, 2014 at 3:42 PM
(Reply to #116) #17
mastodon
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Joined: 04/20/2011
MGoPoints: 2239
The firing of AB provided

The firing of AB provided Harris a classic, common, convenient reason to decommit that wouldn't be questioned.  It could easily have been for other reasons, which is what I believe.

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July 18th, 2014 at 12:21 PM
(Reply to #179) #18
Leaders and Best 21
Joined: 08/23/2013
MGoPoints: 161
Exactly

Exactly what I thought the day he decommitted ".

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July 17th, 2014 at 1:10 PM
(Reply to #11) #19
991GT3
Joined: 12/14/2013
MGoPoints: 1133
The reality is

all this negative talk about Michigan is a direct result of its on field performance. No one will argue the fact the the program is on a downward trajectory and unless there is miraculous turn around this season the criticisims of the program will only grow.

This is despite the fact that because of our past reputation we have recruited as well as anyone and yet that has not translated to success on the field. BH set the standard. Win the B1G championship and beat OSU and MS. We have not met his standards and he needs to look inward.

Finally, diehards supporters of the program need to stop making excuses like youth, depth and bad play calling. This is an organization failure and all must recognize it if we are to fix it. 

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July 17th, 2014 at 3:03 PM
(Reply to #160) #20
uncleFred
Joined: 10/14/2011
MGoPoints: 2272
I'll speak for "no one"

Not exactly sure what time frame you'd think appropriate to discuss this, but because it's convenient for my argument, I'll use 2007-2013. 

At the end of a 9-4 2007 season which opened with one of the most memorable and disruptive losses in Michigan history and ended with a commanding bowl win, Michigan's head coach retires. Despite the fact that he had indicated to the athletic director he planned to retire after the 2006 season and had only stayed at the request of the AD, the AD seems utterly unprepared to replace his head coach, and a comically bad coaching search is initiated. 

A major coaching change occurs and team goes 3-9 and 5-7 producing the worst two consecutive seasons in something like 60 years. This is not a spiral it's a carpet bombimg. The program didn't "fall" it blew completely apart. Michigan says goodbye to its athletic director.

The 2010 season is 7-6. One can argue that the program has moved beyond the catastrophe of 2008 & 2009. However, without placing responsibilty anywhere, the environment in the program is the most toxic in any living person's memory, if not in history. Recruiting is a mess and retention is a horror show.  So...

There is another major coaching change. The 2011 season, in part because of a statistically unlikely windfall in turn overs, the play of arguably the best center in that season, perhaps the most charismatic QB ever to play at Michigan, and magic with the defense, produces an 11-2 record capped by an ugly bowl win. The toxicity in the program is dramtically reduced. Despite cautions about serious personnel gaps faced in 2012 and 2013 expectations for the immediate recovery of Michigan football are raised to utterly unrealistic levels throughout the fan base. 

In 2012 the team is up and down and key injuries result in an 8-5 season with a close but disappointing bowl game. In 2013 the offense as a whole struggles, the oline is an ongoing tire fire, and the defense allows scores at critical junctures. Fan angst flourishes across the internets. The QB breaks his foot. A true freshman QB gets his first start in a bowl game and the season finishes 7-6. The OC is fired and replaced by a "gold chip" OC snatched from Alabama.

So 9-4, 3-9, 5-7, 7-6, 11-2, 8-5, 7-6. Recuiting has been solid since 2012 and retention simply is not a problem. This is not a spiral. The descent has been arrested since 2010. Significant changes have been made in the staff both in the athletic department and in the football program and within the structure of the program to address problems and issues. These changes directly oppose the contention that there is an unrecognized organizational failure. It may be that these changes have not effectively addressed organizational issues, but those who run the program are clearly aware of past organizational problems and are attempting to address them.

While it can be argued that the program is struggling, and/or that any recovery is taking to long, the claim that the program is going down for the count simply does not jibe with the facts. Nor does it reflect the historical process of previous recoveries in the Michigan football program.

Viewed in the context of the last 50 plus years that I have followed Michigan football, the program, while facing many difficult challenges, is clearly attempting to move back to excellence. It is not clear if Hoke is the guy to get it there, but at this point he's made a great deal of progress rebuilding the foundations required to consistently field a very good to great team year in and year out. He has two years to prove that he can build on those foundations and put a top team on the field. I realize that 2007-2015 is a long time to wait, especially when there is no certainty that 2016 won't bring another coaching search, but that is reality. 

 

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:49 PM
(Reply to #173) #21
JTrain
Joined: 12/09/2012
MGoPoints: 7910
Yep

Listen to what uncleFred says.

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July 17th, 2014 at 2:59 PM
(Reply to #11) #22
bluelaw2013
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Joined: 09/24/2013
MGoPoints: 1875
Having worked at number of

Having worked at number of organizations and played on a number of teams, ranging from world-class great to enraged-Brian-Kelly ugly, I feel qualified to share these three universally-applicable facts:

1) team culture is often a major harbinger of team success;

2) when given options, individuals tend to self-select into teams they find to be culturally compatible with their own personal inclinations; and

3) it does not take many bad apples to limit the synergies inherent to an otherwise excellent culture.

Here, we have a glance into the recruiting approaches of Brady Hoke and Oscar Meyer. You can see where, over time, the differences in their approaches could lead to teams comprised of very different types of individuals and result in very different cultures. And I'm all for it. Give me a team where they build each other up; where they don't criticize or focus on the negatives; where they come together in steadfast support. In other words, give me a team cut from the mold of Bo.

We are finally getting there. We are finally facing a year where we have a critical mass of Brady recruits, such that we can finally enjoy the synergies and benefits of a Bo-styled culture again. And we are going to win this year, and when it's all said and done we'll remember the individualized heroics and fancy stats, but it will be the team that really makes it all come together. A team that started with convincing the right type of team players to individually self-select into our culture.

So kudos to you, Hoke. Let's keep the good ones coming and the bad ones out.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:27 AM
(Reply to #2) #23
MGJS SuperKick Party
Joined: 08/04/2010
MGoPoints: 13570
Funny enough, look at the

Funny enough, look at the mess Florida was with all Urban's players last year.

Development? How many players from his team in Florida have either been arrested or out of the NFL.

While I don't like negative recruiting, maybe he should check himself before he goes around saying other people stink...

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:53 AM
(Reply to #21) #24
MattisonMan
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Joined: 01/29/2010
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That's not the Ohio State

That's not the Ohio State way.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:26 AM
(Reply to #21) #25
trueblue262
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Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 8071
I think that he meant

Arrested Development

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:58 AM
(Reply to #21) #26
getsome
Joined: 09/07/2013
MGoPoints: 4228
meyer wins and has a rep with

meyer wins and has a rep with recruits for putting players into nfl...thats all he cares about and frankly thats what many top recruits consider.  meyer really does not care if theyre questionable kids off the field as long as they have the talent and put in the work - meyers a questionable dude himself and he knows it, but he gets the job done.  all that matters to him is everyone in the room shows up at the right time and sweats together and gets it done on the field.  if theyre great kids and sick athletes, thats great, it makes everything easier...but hes got no problem recruiting certain attitudes to his teams while using certain styles that hoke might frown upon.  and to this point, hes won big everywhere and likely continues to do so...if its not rape-related or the occasional wrist slap to save face, the ncaa or conferences wont touch it so guys like meyer and sumlin and franklin and richt and fisher etc will continue to do whatever it takes to try to put the most athletic teams on the field.  and most their alumni / fans seem more than happy with it.  um takes a different approach and thats fine...as long as people do not expect um to realistically compete for national titles more than once per decade when the stars align, bc it would take a different approach for um to realistically start/finish in top 5 nationally most seasons in modern era

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:00 PM
(Reply to #126) #27
CLord
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Joined: 09/11/2011
MGoPoints: 7015
Urbz sure got it done at

Urbz sure got it done at Florida post Tebow...  Also, paragraph key.

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July 17th, 2014 at 4:30 PM
(Reply to #130) #28
Ron Utah
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Joined: 02/28/2012
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FALSE

"Urbz" went 8-5 (4-4 in the SEC) without Tebow.  He pretty much sucked, actually.

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July 17th, 2014 at 5:11 PM
(Reply to #184) #29
ChiBlueBoy
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Joined: 10/11/2011
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Out on a limb

I think you might want to check your /s meter.

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:01 PM
(Reply to #21) #30
getsome
Joined: 09/07/2013
MGoPoints: 4228
basically many alums / fans

basically many alums / fans at most schools  (and obviously players) would prefer consistently winning big to maybe winning every once in a while with actual honor and tradition etc or bs self-righteousness.  thats just a fact.  you dont hear many in ohio complaining

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July 17th, 2014 at 1:00 PM
(Reply to #131) #31
MGJS SuperKick Party
Joined: 08/04/2010
MGoPoints: 13570
I agree with you, but he's

I agree with you, but he's preaching player development and putting people into the league.

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:15 AM
(Reply to #2) #32
WolverineMac
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Joined: 02/14/2010
MGoPoints: 1913
They have never

Had a problem recruiting.

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:42 AM
(Reply to #110) #33
charblue.
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Joined: 05/25/2010
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Beyond the typical name omission

garbage, it's weird that a coach who used to work with the likes og Greg Mattison and counted on him to recruit one of his best players ever, would turn around and condemn....(sorry, I got carried away with myself). The fact that MSU now gets thrown in there is revealing, considering that its head coach is a virtual clone of Meyer when it comes to Michigan bashing obsession. 

I would say this is perfect bulletin board material for both staff and players. How often do you get such perfect insight into opposing team's recruiting tactics and well-before the conference preseason meeting where this can be all be challenged in a spirited, non-confrontational manner. In any case, I think the lack of respect for the coaching staff is more interesting than the other stuff. 

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:37 PM
(Reply to #123) #34
MGJS SuperKick Party
Joined: 08/04/2010
MGoPoints: 13570
I don't think that the MSU

I don't think that the MSU coaches hate us as much as OSU coaches do. I think the MSU coaching staff knows what they need to do, and the direction they are heading and how they can do it without the same recruits. OSU battles us on the same recruits, so they are going to bash us more.

Mark Dantonio said last year, "Just because you like someone in the family doesn't mean you like the whole family." Mark respects our program, but hates it. I feel like he wouldn't bash us to make us look bad. I could be wrong though.

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July 18th, 2014 at 1:11 AM
(Reply to #150) #35
Michigania
Joined: 01/25/2011
MGoPoints: 2001
You have it reversed.

You have it reversed.

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July 17th, 2014 at 1:55 PM
(Reply to #2) #36
yossarians tree
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Joined: 08/19/2010
MGoPoints: 8970
*

If I didn't believe that our classy, dignified coaching staff could not, in time, build up a program that I can be proud of AND kick Urbz Buckeyes asses up and down the field, I would no longer be interested in Michigan football.

Ohio State has exactly what it wants and deserves.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:10 AM
#37
Yo_Blue
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Joined: 08/24/2010
MGoPoints: 83147
Not surprised at the

Not surprised at the bashing.

I am surprised that Meyer doesn't think enough of his program to sell it as is.  If the best he can come up with is "Come to Ohio and get an iPad", then he is missing the bigger picture.  Of course, if the recruits are convinced to make a college decision based on free iPads then have at it.

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:01 AM
(Reply to #4) #38
Decatur Jack
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Joined: 09/20/2011
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Exactly this

Meyer's a scumbag. How can anyone be surprised that he talks shit about Michigan to recruits?

I'm personally more surprised that a coach who won 24 straight games in his first two seasons feels the need to bash a program that is clearly struggling, instead of, you know, brag about being 24-0 for that time and 2-0 against Michigan. If Michigan and OSU were both undefeated and everything, then yeah, I could see the reasoning behind trying to get a few inches ahead. But this? You're 2-0 against Michigan, man. Get some ethics.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:17 AM
#39
GoWings2008
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Joined: 01/26/2011
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F*ck Urban Meyer.

F*ck Urban Meyer.

I liked this quote though:  "With all of the talk about rivalry and hatred, Anonymous isn’t impressed with the Buckeye coaching staff that is led by Meyer."

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:18 AM
(Reply to #5) #40
boliver46
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Joined: 09/14/2012
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Sad Urban

Never gets old.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:19 AM
(Reply to #12) #41
GoWings2008
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Too bad

that was a Papa Johns pizza and not Dominos.  That would have been classic.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:45 AM
(Reply to #15) #42
CLord
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Joined: 09/11/2011
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I'll never eat Papa John's

I'll never eat Papa John's again.  It's home to the most narcissistic, self-loving douche CEO of all time, who puts his cosmetically knifed face front and square in all ad campaigns and goes out of his way to show himself throwing touchdowns and performing other athletic feats.  Easily in my top 5 most annoying people in the United States.

Domino's and Little Caesar's 4 life yo.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:51 AM
(Reply to #91) #43
Magnus
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Joined: 07/17/2008
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Yeah, but you're punishing

Yeah, but you're punishing yourself by eating Little Caesar's. They have the worst chain-restaurant pizza in the land. It tastes like a brand new pair of Asics slathered with Campbell's tomato soup and then whatever came up when Paris Hilton put her finger down her throat.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:59 AM
(Reply to #96) #44
trueblue262
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Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 8071
Hands down

The best description of Little Skeezers I've ever heard!

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July 17th, 2014 at 1:17 PM
(Reply to #96) #45
gustave ferbert
Joined: 06/21/2011
MGoPoints: 20166
oh that tasted like

shellfish. . . 

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:56 AM
(Reply to #91) #46
JeepinBen
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Joined: 01/22/2010
MGoPoints: 25475
2 other points about "John"

In something that everyone can hate, he loves to spend lots of money to go to africa and "hunt" sometimes endagered big game.

Also, he's ... "Active politically" which could push you to support or not support based on your own leanings

/walks away slowly

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:58 AM
(Reply to #91) #47
GoWings2008
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Joined: 01/26/2011
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Agree with Magnus

about Little Caesars, but as the old saying goes...Pizza is a lot like sex:  the worst I've had is still pretty damn good.

Personally, I can handle Papa Johns, but I like Dominos better.  My most common practice is to find a couple local non-chain pizza places near my home and be a regular customer.  There's a place with NYC style pizza that my wife and I love.

That said, I really wish we had a Jets pizza down here in the St Louis area...

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:31 AM
(Reply to #102) #48
Ron Utah
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Joined: 02/28/2012
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NYC Pizza

Racanelli's?  I used to live in STL, and the pizza there generally isn't great.  Imo's is worse than Little Ceasar's, IMO.  Fortel's is okay, and I think Dewey's is overrated.  Pi is pretty good though.

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:34 AM
(Reply to #117) #49
GoWings2008
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Joined: 01/26/2011
MGoPoints: 48651
Pi

Yes, love Pi.  I can take or leave Imo's.  But the place near me, Metro East, is called Schiappas.  There's a small local chain called Peel that is brick oven pizza.  Very very good.

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July 17th, 2014 at 4:08 PM
(Reply to #102) #50
Jonesy
Joined: 03/14/2012
MGoPoints: 3798
Exactly, once you get past

Exactly, once you get past the age of like 25 or 30 chain pizza should be a thing of the past...granted I'm lucky enough to have the zagats #1 rated pizza place a couple miles away but even when I don't go there there are quality non-chain places around.  I feel bad for anyone whose only option is chain pizza.

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:30 AM
(Reply to #91) #51
SituationSoap
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Joined: 09/22/2012
MGoPoints: 2646
We should totally make him an

We should totally make him an Athletic Director.

 

Worked so well the last time, right?

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:37 PM
(Reply to #91) #52
M-Dog
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Joined: 07/06/2008
MGoPoints: 147117
"It's home to the most

"It's home to the most narcissistic, self-loving douche CEO of all time"

For a minute there, I thought you were talking about someone else.
 
Oops.  Carry on.
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July 17th, 2014 at 10:21 AM
(Reply to #12) #53
WhoopinStick
Joined: 03/16/2010
MGoPoints: 3574
I always wondered

I always wondered if Urban has a kid, is he named Suburban?

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July 17th, 2014 at 3:49 PM
(Reply to #70) #54
rob f
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Joined: 11/11/2010
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While I can't answer that,

I am sure of this:  as bad as Columbus has always been, Urban blight there is now far worse than ever.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:44 AM
(Reply to #5) #55
gwkrlghl
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Joined: 04/13/2012
MGoPoints: 71
I actually think it's a bad strategy for OSU

I know everyone is different, but it would be off-putting for me to hear a coach recruiting me just talk bad about another school. It comes across as petty and I little desperate to me.

And I don't say that just about Ohio. If I was at Michigan and they spent significant amounts of time taking shots at ND, MSU, or OSU, it'd leave a bad taste in my mouth, but maybe that's just my style. I'm sure some high schoolers eat it up, but I'm not sure this recruiting tactic is as effective as Urban thinks

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:55 AM
(Reply to #35) #56
trueblue262
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Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 8071
It reminded me

Of an incident that I ran into a month ago while taking me 11year old to try out for a soccer club. He tried out for 2 clubs, "Club A" was a pleasure to be at, and the next one "Club B" was an hour and a half of coaches and directors talking bad about Club A.

This is for 11 year olds soccer.

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:38 PM
(Reply to #97) #57
M-Dog
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Joined: 07/06/2008
MGoPoints: 147117
Which one does Klinsmann

Which one does Klinsmann run?

Have him go to that one.

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July 17th, 2014 at 2:50 PM
(Reply to #5) #58
Double-D
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Joined: 12/21/2013
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Urban is a smug

piece of crap. I have never heard the Michigan coaches blame the players or pin it on a kid. In fact everything they are about is just the opposite. That is a cultural character issue regardless of w-l that I would not want my kid around. I'm pretty sure most people see through that. Player development. That goes away with wins. Michigan should talk about Michigan and that's what they do. Screw him.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:13 AM
#59
blacknblue
Joined: 06/18/2009
MGoPoints: 689
I just want to know where

I just want to know where they're getting that from.  I can thnk of plenty of times the former coaching staff may have blamed losses on the performance of players.  But I can't think of a single time when the current staff said anything more than "we're not living up to the Michigan standard" which pointing out that that starts with the coaches .  I just want one recruit to step up one day and ask Meyer to cite his sources.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:22 AM
(Reply to #6) #60
ilah17
ilah17's picture
Joined: 12/15/2011
MGoPoints: 4185
Totally agree. I used to hate

Totally agree. I used to hate how Calvin Magee especially would criticize the players to the press. I don't recall ever hearing our current coaches do that.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:23 AM
(Reply to #6) #61
FreddieMercuryHayes
Joined: 12/29/2010
MGoPoints: 35030
The coaching staff has said

The coaching staff has said no less than 300,000 times in post game press conferences that "we didn't execute" as the reason for the last debacle. Mattison is probably the exception who I can recall as saying in a presser "it's my fault" after a bad performance.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:33 AM
(Reply to #19) #62
Never
Joined: 11/07/2009
MGoPoints: 1079
Correct

That was Borges' lament. Regularly mentioned a lack of player execution; once said "there's a good offense in there somewhere." Hoke and Mattison always blamed their coaching.

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:02 AM
(Reply to #24) #63
trueblue262
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Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 8071
I remember that presser for Big Al

He pulled out eveything in that one. I was waiting to hear him sing a Josh Groban song

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:33 AM
(Reply to #19) #64
Wee-Bey Brice
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Joined: 05/23/2013
MGoPoints: 6226
"We didn't execute" isn't

"We didn't execute" isn't necessarily passing blame. Especially since I'm sure Hoke & Co. are aware that getting the team to execute is part of their job descriptions.  

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:46 AM
(Reply to #26) #65
Never
Joined: 11/07/2009
MGoPoints: 1079
There's a direct quote

Will have to retrieve it. The interpretation was that Borges...pretty much threw players under the bus. Plenty were very disappointed with his wording. Halfway down the page: "Borges attributed the struggling offense to players failing to execute..."

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1895923-michigan-football-are-al-bo...

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:48 AM
(Reply to #31) #66
GoWings2008
GoWings2008's picture
Joined: 01/26/2011
MGoPoints: 48651
Bleacher Report?

Really?

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:58 AM
(Reply to #38) #67
Never
Joined: 11/07/2009
MGoPoints: 1079
"If players execute, his offense will work."

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2013/12/michigans_al_borges_of...

You were saying?

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:59 AM
(Reply to #44) #68
GoWings2008
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Joined: 01/26/2011
MGoPoints: 48651
Dude, seriously

if you've been around here enough, you'd know BR is not a source that is looked upon favorably.  If you'd have produced the MLive link from the beginning, I wouldn't have said a damn word. 

So, I wasn't saying anything other than...."Bleacher Report?  Really?"

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:02 AM
(Reply to #46) #69
Never
Joined: 11/07/2009
MGoPoints: 1079
There are myriad sources. I chose a random one.

"Borges always had the same answer: his players didn't execute."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigten/2014/01/08/michigan-fi...

Same quote across various publications.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:03 AM
(Reply to #51) #70
GoWings2008
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Joined: 01/26/2011
MGoPoints: 48651
Again...

if you'd have used those, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:15 AM
(Reply to #46) #71
Michigan Arrogance
Michigan Arrogance's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 15317
by "here," do you mean

by "here," do you mean "Earth?"

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:19 AM
(Reply to #62) #72
GoWings2008
GoWings2008's picture
Joined: 01/26/2011
MGoPoints: 48651
lmao

Yeah, pretty much.

Well stated.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:08 AM
(Reply to #38) #73
aplatypus
Joined: 11/02/2013
MGoPoints: 1735
Funny thing about direct quotes

they're typically the same regardless of source. 

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:37 AM
(Reply to #19) #74
ReadYourGuard
ReadYourGuard's picture
Joined: 08/21/2008
MGoPoints: 33682
And where in "we didn't

And where in "we didn't execute" do you see 'Gardner didn't do this" or "Gallon didn't do that"?

 

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:49 AM
(Reply to #29) #75
FreddieMercuryHayes
Joined: 12/29/2010
MGoPoints: 35030
Like, literally that's

Like, literally that's exactly what "we didn't execute" means, without putting specific players' names on it. Leaving off the players' names is of little value after, say, having negative rushing yards against Nebraska. Everyone knows who you're talking about.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:54 AM
(Reply to #39) #76
GoWings2008
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Joined: 01/26/2011
MGoPoints: 48651
Not literally

We, a possessive pronoun, includes the speaker.  If what you're saying is true, he would have said "they didn't execute."  He is clearly saying 'we' and that means the entire team including the coaching staff.  He's said on many occasions that he and the coaching staff made mistakes during the game or didn't have the team prepared sufficiently.

The truth is, "we didn't execute" is classic coach speak, always has been and always will be.  If Urban M.F'er Meyer wants to turn this into "Michigan throws its players under the bus," then he's really reaching for shit.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:13 AM
(Reply to #41) #77
FreddieMercuryHayes
Joined: 12/29/2010
MGoPoints: 35030
I'm glad you find comfort in

I'm glad you find comfort in the coach speak semantics. I personally do not. Debacle after debacle with no change in the schemes, which coaches do control, and still 'we didn't execute'. That's a veiled 'if only they would have blocked/passed better in my great game plans and schemes, it would have worked'. That's throwing your players under the bus after doing little to help them actually succeed.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:21 AM
(Reply to #60) #78
GoWings2008
GoWings2008's picture
Joined: 01/26/2011
MGoPoints: 48651
Wow

you're really putting that transitive property through the wringer.

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:08 PM
(Reply to #41) #79
white_pony_rocks
white_pony_rocks's picture
Joined: 02/16/2009
MGoPoints: 2662
the execution stage comes after the planning

the execution stage comes after the planning stage, the coaches plan and it's up to the players to execute, the doing of the plan. so yes, it literally does just mean the players

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July 17th, 2014 at 1:50 PM
(Reply to #136) #80
LB
LB's picture
Joined: 09/26/2009
MGoPoints: 10448
Right

I would add something like a coaching and teaching phase in there somewhere, but that's just me, literally.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:02 AM
(Reply to #39) #81
ReadYourGuard
ReadYourGuard's picture
Joined: 08/21/2008
MGoPoints: 33682
Like, you haven't got the

Like, you seem totally confused what LITERALLY means.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:56 AM
(Reply to #47) #82
HarkerLarsen
Joined: 02/15/2012
MGoPoints: 11
Literally no longer means literally

I think the OP was using the new definition of literally, not the classic definition that most of us think of.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/15/living/literally-definition/

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:17 AM
(Reply to #39) #83
BigBlue02
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 11648
So he blamed players for

So he blamed players for losses by not naming them by name? That isn't a very good way to blame someone. He was even bad at blaming players. He should have said "you know who you are" after that statement. That would have cleared it right up.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:21 AM
(Reply to #39) #84
Magnus
Magnus's picture
Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 123009
You're really reaching in

You're really reaching in this argument.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:10 AM
(Reply to #19) #85
aplatypus
Joined: 11/02/2013
MGoPoints: 1735
I think every single time Hoke said that

"we didn't execute" he followed with, "we didn't execute as coaches" or if he insinuated the players made a mistake he added, "we have to do better as coaches."

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:22 AM
(Reply to #58) #86
turd ferguson
turd ferguson's picture
Joined: 12/09/2009
MGoPoints: 26489
Yes.  This whole argument is

Yes.  This whole argument is stupid, just like the "we need to execute" argument on this board was stupid.  People can argue about the precise language used, but our coaches clearly never intended to communicate that the coaching is perfect and the players suck.  "Execution" is just a generic term used to say that a group has the potential to be good and that doing so is in their control.  The alternatives -- saying things like "we can't possibly win with [the talent we have / our schemes / these injuries / etc.]" -- are much, much worse.  

Anyway, Urban Meyer is a manipulative, dishonest dick.  News at 11.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:35 AM
(Reply to #19) #87
reshp1
reshp1's picture
Joined: 10/31/2011
MGoPoints: 25122
There's a big difference

There's a big difference between calling guys out by name and saying the team didn't execute. Read, the article... Meyer is saying the coaches are publicly blaming individual players by name, which couldn't be farther from the truth.

Would I liked to see Borges take more responsibility for whacky schemes? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean that the players also didn't execute the plan they were given either. That's completely fair game to say "we didn't execute" and it's something that every coach has said at one point or another.

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July 17th, 2014 at 2:55 PM
(Reply to #19) #88
Double-D
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Joined: 12/21/2013
MGoPoints: 23952
We didn't execute is standard coach speak

Brady has often followed that up with "we as coaches have to do a better job". I hope your not agreeing with Slurban on this? This staff has never run down a player or even close to it in public.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:44 AM
(Reply to #6) #89
Michigania
Joined: 01/25/2011
MGoPoints: 2001
I thought I caught Borges'

I thought I caught Borges' sarcasm in an interview where he was fingering Gardner... and for the record, I agree with Borges... Gardner has skated past any criticism on this board, and Borges was the easy target.  However, does Borges share blame ? Yep.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:22 AM
(Reply to #34) #90
Magnus
Magnus's picture
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"I thought I caught Borges'

"I thought I caught Borges' sarcasm in an interview where he was fingering Gardner."

The Freep is going to be all over this pretty soon.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:13 AM
#91
carlos spicywiener
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They talked a lot about how

They talked a lot about how [the Michigan] coaches like to blame losses on the players. And how the Ohio State coaching staff would never do that and accept their part of the loss.

Really, Meyer? Because I can recall a post-Capital One Bowl press conference in which you threw everyone not named Tebow under the damn bus.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:27 AM
(Reply to #7) #92
woodfeld
Joined: 07/31/2008
MGoPoints: 790
I'm not going to read too

I'm not going to read too much into this article as it just seems like a recruit that just didn't like what Urban was selling and then a blog eagerly picking up on the negative reaction and running with it....but if Urban really is saying that he never blames players to the press, then he's a hypocrite.  He frequently said to the press how the DB play last year disappointed him.  That's not any different than Borges saying "we failed to execute".  Not that a major D1 football coach being a hypocrite is much of a surprise of course.

Of course, this is all silly because recruits pick one or the other based on what they want in a program.  It sure seems like a number of recruits have picked UM because of the family atmosphere and Hoke & staff being super genuine.  And other kids (i.e. Damon Webb) picked OSU because of the super competitive, demand to be the greatest that Urban sells.  This isn't to say that these two staffs don't do what the other does, just that the other sells it better or their strength is selling that aspect.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:14 AM
#93
Bryan
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Joined: 07/10/2009
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We can all disagree

on movies at Michigan Stadium, football being played there (no, not that football), fireworks, scheduling, giant noodles, etc...But we can all agree that we hate that Urban Meyer.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:18 AM
(Reply to #8) #94
GoWings2008
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Joined: 01/26/2011
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I hated

Urban M.F'er Meyer before he even went to Columbus.  Now, it's gone to another level with this crap.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:15 AM
#95
gustave ferbert
Joined: 06/21/2011
MGoPoints: 20166
that's not how they should sell it. . .

they should sell it in a way that Ohio State's entire program is predicated on their desire to TRY and be like Michigan.  After all, their greatest tradition; the gold pants, Is given out as a reminder that Michigan players put our pants on one leg at a time. . . .If they have to get an award to remind themselves of that/  To me that is mother of all inferiority complexes. . . .

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:42 AM
(Reply to #9) #96
Yo_Blue
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Joined: 08/24/2010
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Little Brother???

NO!  Don't go there!

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:32 AM
(Reply to #10) #97
Brimley
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I don't think the player

I don't think the player development argument is true either.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:19 AM
#98
Cali Wolverine
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I don't think Urban was complaining about Mattison...

...when thy were winning a national championship together at Florida.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:22 AM
#99
jblaze
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Meh...

all this shows is that Meyer doesn't have any class and attracts similarly minded players (we already know how their fanbase is).

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:22 AM
#100
umalum16
Joined: 03/12/2012
MGoPoints: 175
This wouldn't make me angry

This wouldn't make me angry if it weren't for the fact that I have literally never read a single quote from any of our coaches that disparaged a single player in an improper way.

I have also never seen a single one of our coaches use an excuse that didn't relate to the youth on our team, and even when they say that they say it's no excuse and they have to get the players they have ready. Even using that excuse, I've never seen them blame a single loss on any mistake of any player. EVER.

Seriously, listening to this guy is like listening to a politician who just lies without regret because he knows his supporters will blindly believe it, and then get away with it no matter how false he is proven to be. Sad thing about society today - facts don't matter, which bubble you live in does...

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:24 AM
#101
Schembo
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Pathetic when grown men lie

Pathetic when grown men lie to kids to try and manipulate them.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:45 AM
(Reply to #20) #102
Haasman15
Joined: 03/30/2014
MGoPoints: -9
I'm not a fan of Urb's, but

I'm not a fan of Urb's, but is what he's saying a farce? I hope our coaching staff shows out this year, but until they do, this will continue to be a weakness.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:55 AM
(Reply to #36) #103
Never
Joined: 11/07/2009
MGoPoints: 1079
Which aspect?

Player development: Will Campbell? The CB's name who fails me at the moment - JT Floyd I believe? Jake Ryan? Q Wash? Desmond Morgan? Frank Clark? Henry?

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:05 AM
(Reply to #42) #104
Haasman15
Joined: 03/30/2014
MGoPoints: -9
I was speaking to the player

I was speaking to the player development aspect. Very little growth on the field, and that's definitely something that's used against them in recruiting. Yes, they faced a great deal of attrition, and have a young team, but that's not the case anymore. Nothing to fall back on this year. They need to win and win often. This team is stacked with talent up and down roster. Hoke & Company need to show they CAN develop talent, and then everything else will fall into place.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:12 AM
(Reply to #36) #105
aplatypus
Joined: 11/02/2013
MGoPoints: 1735
"is what he's saying a farce"

--Yes. 

Unless you've ever seen a quote from Hoke saying we lost a game because Jeremy Gallon didn't do something (HAH!) then it is a farce.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:29 AM
#106
UMgradMSUdad
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Joined: 07/02/2011
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Win at any cost, whether it

Win at any cost, whether it be shading the truth or anything else. Yup, sounds about right.  It is Ohio State, afterall, and that's a far cry from Michigan, fergodsake.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:29 AM
#107
ReadYourGuard
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Joined: 08/21/2008
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I think the guy behind DZone

I think the guy behind DZone is a young kid who covers high school football around Michigan.  He seems to have somewhat of a rapport with a few kids.  I used to follow him on Twitter but the dude can fill up a TL in no time.  That said, A) is it any surprise Meyer stoops to to name calling?  B) we give our kids IPads, too.  It's equivalent to a play book.  Meyer simply played to the gullability of youth and proclaimed it to be a perk.  Again, see A.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:25 AM
(Reply to #23) #108
Magnus
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Joined: 07/17/2008
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I follow The D Zone on

I follow The D Zone on Twitter, too. It's kind of a mess, but they (I'm sure it's multiple people) do have their finger on the pulse of what's going on around the state.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:31 AM
#109
pdgoblue25
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Joined: 03/03/2010
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This all comes with losing, Urban knows that if Hoke can't

get it done, Michigan could go through another 3-4 year transition/tailspin.  There is a lot riding on this season, and improvement must be shown.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:33 AM
#110
Wolverine 73
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 4465
very classy stuff

Who knows what sells an 18 year old, but I like to think that I would have been really put off even at 18 by that sort of crap.  Tell me what's good about your school and why I will like it, develop as a player, fit in, and enjoy myself.  I will evaluate the other schools on my own and see what I think.  If I were there as a parent, I sure as hell would tell my kid to stay away from people who approach recruiting that way.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:34 AM
#111
WhoopinStick
Joined: 03/16/2010
MGoPoints: 3574
No class

I didn't have a very high opinion of Urban before he went to Columbus - and he has done nothing during his time there to improve my opinion of him.  

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:39 AM
#112
Darker Blue
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Joined: 10/30/2011
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Dear Urban,  Please stop

Dear Urban, 

Please stop being a big meanie head. It is hurting our feelings very much. 

Sincerely, 

Darker Blue

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:41 AM
#113
maize-blue
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Joined: 01/10/2013
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His method works for some

His method works for some recruits, others I'm sure can see through it. Those are the recruits that UM wants. It's pretty obvious that UM targets guys with goals both in and out of the classroom. Urban Meyer is a good to great college coach and can/will stockpile a shitload of wins but I don't think he'll ever be considered a great man or be considered a model example.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:46 AM
#114
reshp1
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Joined: 10/31/2011
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Urban Meyer's recruiting

Urban Meyer's recruiting style gets the kind of player that recruiting style gets. Hoke's recruiting style gets the kind of player that recruiting style gets. And I'm OK with that.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:08 AM
(Reply to #37) #115
Meeeeshigan
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Joined: 11/01/2010
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Exactly

Couldn't agree more. The guys Hoke tends to recruit spend their summers *not* filling our pages with arrest reports and misdeeds. Perhaps the kind of guy that responds to this kind of recruiting doesn't fit that mold.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:31 AM
(Reply to #52) #116
Clark Griswold
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Joined: 06/24/2014
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Frank Clark? Glasgow?

Frank Clark? Glasgow?

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:57 AM
(Reply to #82) #117
ST3
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Glasgow

is a walk-on. I'm not sure how much recruiting was done there. If a player with ability wants to play for your program and pay his way to do so, I think you give him a chance. If he messes up once, you punish him accordingly and watch him closely after that.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:20 AM
(Reply to #37) #118
jmdblue
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Joined: 12/01/2010
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Yep...

I think the images we had of Hoke recruiting v. Meyer recruiting are beginning to show to be true.  It will be interesting to see where Damien Harris winds up.  He always struck me as a kid who would react better to teh postive message.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:57 AM
#119
reshp1
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Also, who's more likely to

Also, who's more likely to throw their players under the bus? the guy that spends most of his recruiting pitch talking shit about someone else, or the guy that focuses on their own positives?

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:01 AM
#120
Evil Empire
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Joined: 07/29/2008
MGoPoints: 9048
The last block quote is perfect

And it reflects almost exactly the conversation I had with my best friend from high school when we saw eachother at Christmas after our first terms at Michigan and Ohio State.

He: At my orientation, my RA told three Michigan jokes.

I: That's interesting, I didn't hear my RA mention Ohio State in four months.

That was a different era, as Gordon Gee's greatest 13-13 win took place that autumn after four straight UM wins, but I think that supports the larger reality: saying nasty stuff about Michigan is deeply ingrained in the OSU fan mentality, regardless of the current state of the rivalry.  Dicks will be dicks.  Sure would be nice to get a win though.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:01 AM
#121
Eastside Maize
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Urb, I see family time in your near future

and by family time I mean another job on College Gameday.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:01 AM
#122
LSAClassOf2000
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Joined: 01/07/2011
MGoPoints: 81346
Interesting Article...

"The real question is how many of those top-level recruits choose to go to Ohio State based on just the negative talk and I-Pads?"

I suppose my guess at an answer is "less than perhaps they would like to believe". If the presentation described in the article is that over-the-top about Michigan, then it probably is well past the point where good salesmanship ends and into "unintentionally comical" territory. The way it is described, it is almost the presentation an overzealous fan might give, and if coaches are trying to project that image, be it on their own head - I suspect a lot of recruits would rather hear them talk about the sort of experience they will have at your school and not sit through a PowerPoint which pushes the potential for schadenfreude and a contrived message that, in the end, may only be effective if you felt that way about Michigan in the first place.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:19 AM
(Reply to #50) #123
Michigan Arrogance
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Joined: 06/30/2008
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I'm of the opinion that

I'm of the opinion that Urban's pitch here will only sell to kids whom they already have in the bag.

 

To a kid who wants to hear about OSU b/c he isn't sold yet, 20-30mins of Michigan talk is not going to be all that impressive.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:06 AM
#124
Erik_in_Dayton
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MGoPoints: 34174
Coach Hoke fired Borges

That seems like a pretty powerful statement about who he held accountable. 

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:14 AM
(Reply to #54) #125
Randy Marsh
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Joined: 08/28/2010
MGoPoints: 7394
.

Well it's not like you can just force players out of th --- oh.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:19 AM
(Reply to #61) #126
reshp1
reshp1's picture
Joined: 10/31/2011
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circle of trust?

circle of trust?

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:55 AM
(Reply to #54) #127
Decatur Jack
Decatur Jack's picture
Joined: 09/20/2011
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Oh my God BOOM

Oh my God BOOM

BOOM x 1,000,000

I mean, seriously, how can anyone think that Hoke blames the players when he fired his offensive coordinator?!

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:09 AM
#128
EGD
EGD's picture
Joined: 09/16/2009
MGoPoints: 26584
Negative Recruiting

If I was Urban Meyer and wanted to say negative things about Michigan, I would think I could come up with much better arguments than those in the article.  For instance:

-- "At Michigan, the classes are much harder.  You are competing with people who want to be doctors and lawyers, not car salesmen and retail managers--so the work you put in to get a B at Ohio State will get you about a C- from that school up north.  So if you want to play school, go ahead and sign with Michigan.  You want to play football, come to Ohio State."

-- "At Ohio State, we have lots of pretty girls.  Not only that, but a good percentage of them are dumb and lacking in self-esteem.  That makes it very easy to get laid as a football player.  Now that school up north, sure--they have their share of attractive women.  Not as many as Ohio State, but some. They probably even have a handful of football groupies.  But who are these ladies?  Most of them are smart, highly-motivated, high on self-respect.  They aren't going to just 'give it up' to some dim-witted meathead because he's got a letter jacket and a Leaders Division ring.  So for most of y'all, if you want to get a piece, Columbus is where you need to be."

-- "Now Ann Arbor is what they call a 'walkable town.'  Means you don't need a car to get to and from most places you'd want to go.  Well, who likes walking?  Me, I like driving; more specifically, I like driving free sports cars from the local dealership.  So if you want to walk, go put on that winged helmet.  If you want to drive, go with the Scarlet & Gray."

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:44 AM
(Reply to #56) #129
carlos spicywiener
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Joined: 05/03/2014
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If you think the michigan

If you think the michigan football team doesn't have girls just as eager to "give it up", you are much mistaken

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:20 AM
(Reply to #90) #130
denardogasm
Joined: 09/11/2011
MGoPoints: 7964
I have literally heard girls

I have literally heard girls at UM say banging football players doesn't count as cheating because they're football players. Those girls are everywhere, and there are a lot of them.

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July 17th, 2014 at 9:18 PM
(Reply to #113) #131
EGD
EGD's picture
Joined: 09/16/2009
MGoPoints: 26584
Girls

I acknowledge your point, but I still say that Ohio State girls are sluttier than UM girls.

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July 18th, 2014 at 5:48 PM
(Reply to #190) #132
ChiBlueBoy
ChiBlueBoy's picture
Joined: 10/11/2011
MGoPoints: 5704
Of course

You didn't get any either, huh?

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:14 PM
(Reply to #90) #133
trueblueintexas
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Joined: 11/10/2008
MGoPoints: 14427
I must take this truth to be

I must take this truth to be a confirmed fact since it came from Carlos Spicyweiner.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:26 AM
#134
evenyoubrutus
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Joined: 11/04/2008
MGoPoints: -15
The first sentence in that

The first sentence in that last block could be interchangeably talking about 11 Warriors.

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July 17th, 2014 at 2:58 PM
(Reply to #73) #135
Evil Empire
Evil Empire's picture
Joined: 07/29/2008
MGoPoints: 9048
Well yeah, but the longer this thread gets

the greater the likelihood that someone paints this site with the same brush.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:25 AM
#136
Clark Griswold
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Joined: 06/24/2014
MGoPoints: -316
No problem with what Urban

No problem with what Urban said. It's true for the most part.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:28 AM
(Reply to #76) #137
Magnus
Magnus's picture
Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 123009
But the parts that aren't

But the parts that aren't true aren't true.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:41 AM
(Reply to #81) #138
turd ferguson
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Joined: 12/09/2009
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... which are most of the

... which are most of the parts.

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July 17th, 2014 at 1:39 PM
(Reply to #76) #139
reshp1
reshp1's picture
Joined: 10/31/2011
MGoPoints: 25122
I can't wait for the great

I can't wait for The Great MGoPurge of 2014....

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:27 AM
#140
Mgodiscgolfer
Joined: 01/13/2011
MGoPoints: 5308
I don't know if this comment is redundent

but it should be. I have never heard in all the years of watching UM football heard a coach call out a player by name, EVER. With the exception of a punter who was supposedly supposed to kick the ball rather than try and run it for a first down. I am sure had he ran and got the first down he would have been following orders. This was of during the courseof the RR years and I have never been so mad at a coaching staff since, excluding the Detroit Lions.

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:40 PM
(Reply to #78) #141
evenyoubrutus
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Joined: 11/04/2008
MGoPoints: -15
I don't know.  It's not like

I don't know.  It's not like we ever hear Brady say things like "if we fail, it's on us as coaches." 

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:27 AM
#142
Avon Barksdale
Avon Barksdale's picture
Joined: 04/27/2013
MGoPoints: 10356
Don't really care what he says.

Just win, baby, and the rest will take care of itself. The 1990's are about to come back upon us. In the last 25 years, the series is tied 12-12-1. We are due for a run of 5 out of 6 and it starts in COLUMBUS this year!

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:35 AM
(Reply to #80) #143
Clark Griswold
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Joined: 06/24/2014
MGoPoints: -316
Pass the crack pipe

Pass the crack pipe

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:46 AM
(Reply to #84) #144
carlos spicywiener
carlos spicywiener's picture
Joined: 05/03/2014
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Well put.

Well put.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:41 AM
#145
UMMAN83
UMMAN83's picture
Joined: 11/26/2009
MGoPoints: 1491
do you really want a recruit that buys into this approach?

I would say if a kid goes to o$$$u after hearing this pitch ...see yah. Gotta wonder about the kids upbringing.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:41 AM
#146
BlueCube
BlueCube's picture
Joined: 12/12/2013
MGoPoints: 45499
If I was a recruit I might want to check out that

team up North that he's so obsessive about.

I think that's why he has had some trouble getting players this year. I realize they jumped up the rankings when Cornell and Hilliard committed. but they were down before. It's one thing to jokingly make comments. It's another to go on and on about another school. I think it's going to hurt him in the long run. If Michigan's young players start showing the development that's expected, Meyer is going to look very foolish.

Hopefully this is prominently displayed so the Micigan players see it every day when they are ready to practice or lift.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:51 AM
#147
I dumped the Dope
Joined: 09/22/2013
MGoPoints: 2327
Simple Emotional Reaction

Its as simple as the "emotional issues" brought up at election time.  Its the absolute best vote of all, an emotional one (IOW hating what the other party stands for) because it can't be changed or swayed.  An intellectual vote, on the other hand is someone who proceeds by analysis and might go either way based on priortizing various issues.etc.

As stated above its very simple-minded, and maybe that's what they are looking for...guys who hate Michigan on a gut level.  I'll take the critical thinkers any day.  Eventually Urban's line will get a little old and he'll be on ESPN again.  This was probably his worst recruiting year so far in terms of the time it took to get guys on board.  They are going to do a good job recruiting no matter what, but he got a nice set of tools from Tressel to start with, which Coach Hoke did not have quite the same level of help.

Time will prove or dispel my theory.

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:50 AM
#148
I Hate Buckeyes
I Hate Buckeyes's picture
Joined: 07/01/2013
MGoPoints: 5290
Charles Woodson quote.. "just

Charles Woodson quote.. "just win."

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:01 AM
#149
TrueBlue1975
Joined: 07/17/2014
MGoPoints: -109
Surprised so many people are

Surprised so many people are taking this story at face value. "Anonymous" sources and a writer who does not have a lot of credibility make me doubt if it's actually true.  Probably brought in a bunch of page clicks though...mission accomplished.

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:16 AM
(Reply to #105) #150
BlueCube
BlueCube's picture
Joined: 12/12/2013
MGoPoints: 45499
Nothing says credibility

like signing up today to make this post.

This was brought up immediately following the meeting occurred. I don't remember the sources however IIRC there was enough there that it sounded credible.

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:04 AM
#151
BlueCube
BlueCube's picture
Joined: 12/12/2013
MGoPoints: 45499
I think anything Meyer has to say will be

refuted when they come to campus now.

 

 

I don't know how to put how hungry I am to be better than the rest, in words.. Like y'all just really don't get it! #ImReady #OnME!

— Breez (@JabrillPeppers) July 16, 2014

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:50 AM
(Reply to #107) #152
Real Tackles Wear 77
Real Tackles Wear 77's picture
Joined: 07/05/2008
MGoPoints: 6453
Good thing...

...the NCAA now allows unlimited snacks

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July 17th, 2014 at 3:00 PM
(Reply to #124) #153
Evil Empire
Evil Empire's picture
Joined: 07/29/2008
MGoPoints: 9048
Dig in, Jabrill

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:15 AM
#154
chomz14
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Joined: 09/03/2009
MGoPoints: 3641
This happens everywhere and

This happens everywhere and like it it not, it probably works for more kids than not. If you don't think a Michigan coach assistant or head has never used this method of recruiting then you're cray cray. It might not be as personal as Urban and others. Either way Ohio State is going to out recruit most teams in the nation no matter who's coaching, what's being said to these kids or even if they are on probation. It's a tremendous program in a awesomely talented football state. That will never change. But something else will never change.

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:22 AM
#155
BlueinLansing
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Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 16425
What a

scumbag

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:36 AM
#156
Wolverine Devotee
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Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 126228
What team goes 24-2 in two

What team goes 24-2 in two years with NOTHING to show for it?

Those fuckheads are throwing stones from their glass house.

Congrats, you beat everyone on your awful schedule as expected including Hoke's worst team at Michigan by 1 while giving up 41 points to Al Borges. What championship did you win again?

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:18 PM
(Reply to #122) #157
goblue16
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Joined: 03/28/2010
MGoPoints: 16170
That's what I find funny they

That's what I find funny they don't even have a bowl trophy to brag about. It reminds me of Michigan 2006. Great season but nothin to show off

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:53 AM
#158
iamtjeff
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Joined: 01/11/2014
MGoPoints: 868
Nothing

About this guys surprises me. He's slick as they come. A car salesman parading as a football coach. But that said, whatever he's doing is working so give him credit for that. 

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July 17th, 2014 at 11:58 AM
#159
CRISPed in the DIAG
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Joined: 11/08/2010
MGoPoints: 23452
How did OSU's coaches explain

How did OSU's coaches explain their horror-show defense last year?  I don't recall Urban Meyer taking much responsibility anywhere in his career, but I could be wrong.  

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:03 PM
(Reply to #129) #160
Unicycle Firefly
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Joined: 10/01/2013
MGoPoints: 5802
What are you talking about?

What are you talking about? They scouted our offense so well that they knew what was coming on that 2 point conversion and picked it off. The 41 points before that were just to trick Borges into that one specific playcall.

/Urbz'd

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July 17th, 2014 at 4:42 PM
(Reply to #132) #161
CRISPed in the DIAG
CRISPed in the DIAG's picture
Joined: 11/08/2010
MGoPoints: 23452
Right. Rope a dope.  Urbz had

Right. Rope a dope.  Urbz had us right where he wanted us. 

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:06 PM
#162
MGoManBall
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Joined: 10/27/2012
MGoPoints: 12251
I want an iPad...

I want an iPad...

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:08 PM
#163
markusr2007
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Joined: 10/21/2008
MGoPoints: 15661
"I'm getting too old for this shi*"

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:15 PM
#164
HELLE
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Joined: 07/26/2011
MGoPoints: 2399
I actually don't have a problem with this.

After reading all the NEGATIVE Mgoblog post the last few days regarding Dave Brandon, fireworks and movies at the Big House, I wouldn't expect anything different from our main rival. SOME of us on here are just as bad as them.

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:15 PM
#165
slimj091
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Joined: 01/04/2014
MGoPoints: 5354
if ohio state were a person.

if ohio state were a person. they would be the type of person who on a date spends the entire time trash talking their ex. never attractive except to those looking for an easy rebound lay.

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:15 PM
#166
StephenRKass
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Joined: 07/15/2008
MGoPoints: 17282
Not surprised

Irritating, but not surprised. Now, I will say that I much prefer the kind of recruiting that Hoke is doing than negative recruiting. I like what Michigan stands for, and I like the direction the football team is going in. I know that all the Michigan coaches have to bite their tongues and bide their time while waiting for the lines to gain experience and waiting for the recruiting to catch up.

I do think that negative recruiting is always going to be there in college. What is incredible is how blatant it is at Ohio State. It is always better to sell yourself than to denigrate others. When you focus on the positive, recruits can fill in the blanks with the negatives of other situations.

What I find fascinating is what I see as almost desperation on the part of Ohio State's coaching staff. Here's what I mean. If you are in a position of strength and health, you can stay above the fray. There is no need to be negative. The knives and the mud come out when you perceive someone as a real threat. I wonder if Urban is worried that Michigan will be improving quickly, becoming a real threat to Ohio State's dominance.

This whole account reminds me of something I've seen in dysfunctional families. When someone bad mouths someone else to your face, you can bet the house that they'll be bad mouthing you to someone else when you're not around. I can't help think of some catty sorority girls who are always dissing and disparaging others. When you're confident in who you are and your position in life, this kind of behavior isn't needed.

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:50 PM
(Reply to #141) #167
Filipiak1
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Joined: 12/29/2013
MGoPoints: 1104
I agree but I do wish that

I agree but I do wish that Michigan would push back a bit. OSU and MSU are really taking advantage of us while were down. I'm so tired of it, I do pray that we get a chip on our shoulders and start trying to destroy these teams.

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:52 PM
(Reply to #141) #168
carlos spicywiener
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Joined: 05/03/2014
MGoPoints: 23525
It isn't desperation, it's

It isn't desperation, it's just standard operating procedure for Meyer.

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:31 PM
#169
Avon Barksdale
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Joined: 04/27/2013
MGoPoints: 10356
You know what's so funny

Urban Meyer hates Michigan so much he had a contract clause while at Utah that he could leave for Michigan, ND, or Ohio State without consequence.

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:32 PM
(Reply to #147) #170
Avon Barksdale
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Joined: 04/27/2013
MGoPoints: 10356
Hmmmmm....

I wonder if Brady Hoke had that same clause to leave for Ohio State without penalty while he was at San Diego State? Something tells me he didn't.

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:40 PM
(Reply to #148) #171
carlos spicywiener
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Joined: 05/03/2014
MGoPoints: 23525
Did you just reply to your

Did you just reply to your own post?

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:42 PM
(Reply to #153) #172
Avon Barksdale
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Joined: 04/27/2013
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No.

Didn't mean to, it was supposed to be one comment, two separate paragraphs, and unfortunately it just didn't work out.

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July 17th, 2014 at 12:49 PM
#173
WindyCityBlue
Joined: 07/23/2008
MGoPoints: 5490
The only cure for this is Jim Harbaugh

Cuz if Hoke ever caught wind of what Urban said, all Hoke is gonna do is say, "well..." then clap his hands a few times and cross his arms.



In all seriousness though, how do you think Hoke and staff would react to this? Better yet, how do you think they should react?

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July 17th, 2014 at 1:06 PM
(Reply to #155) #174
dougdutch
Joined: 04/03/2010
MGoPoints: 1050
You react by winning games

You react by winning games and proving them wrong.

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July 17th, 2014 at 1:59 PM
(Reply to #155) #175
LB
LB's picture
Joined: 09/26/2009
MGoPoints: 10448
Remember when people were

using the APR? It seems to have been omitted from the discussion. A few wins will do the same thing for the remainder of the discussion. All he will be left with is "look, if you go up there you will have to study, go to class and do homework."

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July 17th, 2014 at 1:16 PM
#176
GunnersApe
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Joined: 11/19/2009
MGoPoints: 6663
Bottom Line.

 

The hell do you guys expect from UFM. They poop in coolers down there and drink all the UFM Kool-Ade regardless of how much they hated him when he was at UF. The man is a snake and IMHO is perfect for those pig fuckers along with MD in EL and the new guy in Happy Valley. I'm happy as heck to have such dickheads as rival HC's to UM.

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July 17th, 2014 at 1:21 PM
#177
Swazi
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Joined: 08/13/2010
MGoPoints: 7439
All that negative recruiting worked wonders

All that negative recruiting worked wonders against Nick Saban back in his Florida days.

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July 17th, 2014 at 1:42 PM
(Reply to #163) #178
GunnersApe
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Joined: 11/19/2009
MGoPoints: 6663
URBZ

DO YOU SEE?

 

Sharrif Floyd

 

 http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/sleaziest-recruiter-urban-meyer

 http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/gators/content/sharrif-floyd-clears-urban-meyer-dream-god-story

 

CHANGING, DO YOU SEE?

 

Daryl Stomum

 http://blogs.knoxnews.com/perez/2009/02/urban-meyer-an-alleged-cheater.html

 

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July 17th, 2014 at 1:37 PM
#179
Perkis-Size Me
Joined: 11/30/2011
MGoPoints: 40702
Focus on your own team,

Focus on your own team, Meyer. You know, the one that beat our 7-6 squad by 1 point, and needed a failed 2 pt conversion to escape with its life and avoid national embarrassment.



The one that's gone 24-2 over the last 2 years and has absolutely nothing to show for it. What's the best team you've beaten in the last 2 years? Wisconsin? Michigan? (2012 Michigan)



You're the best (or maybe now, 2nd best) of a really bad bunch, Meyer. That's not saying a whole lot.

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July 17th, 2014 at 4:24 PM
#180
mwright900
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Joined: 10/25/2008
MGoPoints: 368
Really??

Who cares what's said , it's time to win that is all...

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July 17th, 2014 at 7:09 PM
#181
Wolfman
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Joined: 07/23/2008
MGoPoints: 8079
Anonymous lack the most important aspect of a claim

and that's credibility. Although it does supply disucssion material, I find it surprising there is no mention of how this would actually affect a recruit's attitude toward whoever is doing the mudslinging.  Forget kids from the state of OH. The majority of them grew up, as are their parents, buckeye fans and that isn't going to change.  However, when you begin slinging mud without an iota of credibility, that is very dangerous.  It is especially dangerous with kids who have actually been to Michigan on a recruiting visit and are aware that Michigan is not at a disadvantage in simply selling itself. Parents and recruits alike walk away completely aware that M is a world class university and the lifetime advantages of holding a degree from U of M.  Just pretend you are a parent accompanying your son on a recruiting trip.  What would you want to hear the merits of attending school in C-Bus or a coach bad-mouthing his biggest rival?  The answer is obvious and to even have to do so sends a very bad message and I don't think UM, no matter his faults is not aware of this. 

He has a big enough advantage in that he is starting to cut players, not unlike the SEC, especially so in Alabama.  I don't believe M will ever go this route for obvious reasons.  Our two biggest rivals - one to be gone after this year - have always fielded teams with greater athletes, although not always as experienced. Both have enjoyed runs at Michigan but neiher has been able to overcome being on the wrong end of the head-to-head battles.  Negative recruiting is simply another way to convey a message of inferiority.  When you speak  negatively about someone constantly, it is normally done based on a feeling of inferiority and it doesn't take long for the listener to tire of it. 

Urb has accomplished a lot during his coaching career.  He does not like competition as was seen during his questionable health issues that coincidentally arose while Bama was wrestling the claim of being the best in the SEC away from the school he was coaching. It's true that Urb has done some questionable things during his coaching career such as the aforementioned institution of SEC practices in regard to recruiting 25 every year and calling Uncle as soon as Saban was rubbing his nose in the dirt.  Buckeye fans are going to like him because he will continue to land the best from that state, and that in itself is a big advantage.

With all the advantages he enjoys, I simply am not buying into an Anonymous source claiming that a coach that understands the importance of, at minimum, selling credibility, is going to stoop to this level. He knows all the negatives returns that such a practice would bring about.  Believe me, it won't take long before other coaches begin bringing up the fact his willingness, sometimes prompting fifth year seniors to remove themselves from the program.  And when that becomes public knowledge to all potential recruits, it won't be done so by an Anonymous source.

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July 17th, 2014 at 7:39 PM
#182
JTrain
Joined: 12/09/2012
MGoPoints: 7910
U

Urbz is a badass. Until his team starts losing. Then he gets heart palpitations. Quits. And moves on to a "weaker" conference to a loaded team so he can be the man for a couple years. Wait. He still hasn't won a BTC. Nor will he. Urbz is trending....DOWN.

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July 17th, 2014 at 8:44 PM
#183
Tagg
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Joined: 09/02/2008
MGoPoints: 895
Shocking

It's hard to believe that the same program that sent doctored game film to MSU before their game in 2012 would resort to negative recruiting and name calling. 

 

/S!

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July 17th, 2014 at 10:29 PM
#184
UMxWolverines
UMxWolverines's picture
Joined: 03/01/2009
MGoPoints: 33484
It's not any different than

It's not any different than regular Ohio residents act. People in Ohio are bred to hate Michigan. If you tell someone from Ohio that you're from Michigan chances are they look at you funny. While most people couldn't give two shits about that state to the south. 

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July 20th, 2014 at 12:33 PM
#185
BlueDC
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Joined: 10/18/2012
MGoPoints: 0
Urban's Reasoning

This presentation is alledged to have occurred when there were a bunch of top prospects in Columbus for a camp that was not being put on by OSU. Many of them would not have otherwise visited OSU. It wasn't a regular weekend of visits. Most of the guys weren't seriously considering OSU. So Urban decided not to spend all of his time selling what they weren't going going to buy. Instead, he threw some shade on their biggest rival. If he can hurt Michigan's recruiting then that is a good thing for OSU. If Urban was doing this on every visit then that would raise more questions.

Meyer is very serious about not blaming the players. He blames the coaches for not teaching properly. He spent a lot of time on that in this speech around the 21 - 30 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ2Rvb68pwc

Some people are saying the Michigan coaches have never blamed players. I disagree. What did Hoke say when Michigan's offense was a complete mess last season? He said that they need to execute better. I heard that over and over. Only players can execute. Meyer would say that if the players aren't executing then it's the coaches fault. Hoke didn't say that Borges needed to change his playcalling and take advantage of what the defense was giving him.

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