Ari Wasserman of The Athletic blisters Jim Harbaugh's recruiting
Some quotes and tidbits that stood out:
"I personally believe Michigan is a top 10 program in America. I I personally believe Michigan could be a more competitive rival to Ohio State if their recruiting strategy was done the right way. I personally believe recruiting rankings and talent are the most important thing in the sport for every program."
"My mistake might be holding UM to OSU's standard. And if that's a mistake then that's fine. If Michigan wants to give up in the rivalry and doesn't want to be a part of this conversation then I won't do it anymore."
"If Jim Harbaugh can't get the kids into the program needed to compete with Ohio State you got two options 1) which is the option Michigan fans seem to have taken is just accept it or 2) don't pay the guy a top 3 salary in America to bring in the #11 class at a program that is probably richer than every program in America."
"Michigan fans need to hold Jim Harbaugh accountable for the lack of production for the money that he's making. Michigan fans also need to believe that they can do what needs to be done to beat OSU because if they don't hold the program accountable or they don't demand more than the rivalry is dead."
Top 100 players signed since 2016: OSU - 43 UM - 15
Top 10 players signed since 2016: OSU - 6 UM -1
2018 class top 100 players: OSU - 13 UM - 0
2019 rosters: OSU - 13 five stars 47 four stars UM - 4 five stars 36 four stars
"Ohio State is perceived to develop talent better because there is more of it coming in. When you look at the numbers of five and four star prospects on OSU's roster and it's staggering OSU has 20-25 more players on their team each year that are higher in the rankings."
"He had really good classes his first two years and in the time since he's had (multiple classes outside the top 10) which are not classes that the third highest paid coach in college football should be receiving and I don't understand what people are expecting to happen when these two teams line up."
"It's about the 11 one on one battles that happen every play throughout a football game. When OSU gets tired or they get hurt they insert another top 100 recruit into the game and Michigan doesn't have the propensity to keep up with that. The talent level is so lopsided."
"The QB play is a wonderful thing to bring up but the QB didn't give up 62 points."
"There have only been two national champions in the last 25 years who didn't have a top 5 class on their roster in the previous four seasons."
"Here's the thing that people don't understand when they are looking at recruiting rankings. The #2 class and the #11 class in the country for example are separated dramatically. And two a top 50 four star prospect and prospect who rates #200 there is a tremendous gap there."
"The thing about development is that it's easier to develop a player that's already there. Jeff Okudah and Chase Young were the top 2 rated players in OSU's 2017 class and guess what they are top 5 picks. It isn't because OSU's staff is genius filled that knows how to develop better than anyone else in America it's because Chase Young came into Ohio State as a 6'5 kid with a six pack."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4_2l2zcMYM
I mean, sure, but that’s like saying we need to score more points and allow fewer. How to out-recruit the best recruiting programs in college football isn’t something you can just snap your fingers and do. I’m sure there are specific things UM could be doing better, but it’s not worth saying this much about the recruiting needing to be better if you don’t have any specific criticisms.
There have been specific criticisms since year one, even in good years. I wish I'd been clipping the articles but no one was paying much attention because the product on the field had improved dramatically and we had a lot to be happy about in 2015 and 2016. Even then, though, reports were percolating up that the entire recruiting effort as a whole was disorganized but getting by on the strength of the individual recruiters.
Targets weren't being prioritized, strategies weren't being agreed upon, follow-ups were falling through the cracks, just basic organizational things, not lack of effort. Something similar came up just a couple of months ago with very similar critiques. I expect some gap with a no-holds-or-bags-barred place like OSU but it shouldn't be that large year after year.
True and true. I didn’t hear any specific ways this is happening, other then the ones we already know about, tell me your thoughts on where do we need to improve how is the head man making bad organizational choices, then you have an article. This, not so much.
Okay, but the 800 lb. gorilla in the room is the fact that Jim Harbaugh arrived at Michigan with an unparalleled level of hype, and his compensation is in the same ballpark as Dabo and Saban. We hired him with the expectation that he would be the one to make us competitive with Ohio State again, not the expectation that he would merely bring the program back to respectability.
That is all true as well, but to my mind, Jim is the best bet to turn this around and we need to give him the maximum amount of rope, and also hope that certain NCAA norms are codified. A level playing field would be interesting if it were not a pipe dream today, I have had some time to come to some more updated thoughts on things, number one being that it is amazing how fast things can change.
That is all true as well, but to my mind, Jim is the best bet to turn this around and we need to give him the maximum amount of rope
I disagree. I thought this at one point, but IMO 5 years is enough to get better results than we are. JH gets credit for making us good, but someone else is needed to get us competitive with OSU. I'd suggest someone like Fleck.
I'm all in with P.J.Fleck. I'm sure he has an escape clause in his new contract that he can put into action when our board throws Harbaugh's salary at him.
How about the guy has more than one good year before firing Harbaugh?
Everyone on here wanted Harbaugh after he had one good year at Stanford. Most coaches have one really good year at lower programs and then leave...that's how it works.
I'm fairly certain the three 11 win seasons, 3 NFC title appearances, Super Bowl appearance, and reviving Stanford were all part of it.
Pretty sure he didn't have any of that after 2010 when he was wanted here after Rich Rod was fired.
Kind of like Hoke. That turned out well
Fleck and Matt Campbell have to be the top targets.
OMFG the love affair with Campbell, who has done nothing but produce mediocre seasons at a mediocre school in a crap conference, needs to stop. If M hired Matt Campbell, I’d stop watching M football.
The guy hasn’t even put together a 9 win season in the crappy Big 12 and his best season in conference was 6-3. If he was as good a coach as you guys wish him to be, you’d think he’d at least put together a few 9-10 win seasons in a weak conference like the Big 12. On top of that, his recruiting is on par with .... MSU, Northwestern, Pittsburgh
In fact, in his 8 seasons as a head coach, he has a 62-40 record and won 10 games just once ... at Toledo ... in 2015. The dude is Hoke reincarnated.
You want to keep getting our asses handed to us by OSU, and probably start getting wrecked again by teams we just got used to beating fairly regularly again (Iowa, Wiscy, MSU) then by all means, fire Harbaugh and hire Matt Campbell. OSU gets guys like Urban (won big everywhere even Utah and BG) or Tressel (Youngstown was a machine winning titles). Matt Campbell is NOT at the level to even hang with Day, let alone the Urbans, Dabos and Sabans
If you want to fire Harbaugh and get someone in here that is going to inject new life, fine, but lots of things need to change. We need someone who does zero else but win games. Need to get rid of the “old guard” that prevented Rich Rod from doing things his way. Need to let someone come in and totally change the culture without interference. And people will have to stop bitching when he doesn’t do it the Michigan way or it’s not how a “Michigan man” would do it. Those ways are great, and I love them. But they aren’t conducive to winning B1G titles, let alone Natl titles, and haven’t been for 15 years or more.
Campbell has given Iowa State it's best run since Earle Bruce was their coach. It's one of the most difficult power five jobs in the country. How well do you expect him to recruit?
James Franklin had a mediocre record at Vanderbilt and seems to be trending up at Penn State compared to us. Context matters.
We have to stop the fiction that M is a top 5 program. M is a top 5 brand. M is a top 20 program.
There are factors that Michigan can't change:
The factors involved include location & demographics.
location: it gets cold here.
demographics: the midwest has an older population. there are many large universities in the Midwest competing for a relatively smaller pool of good HS players.
Everything else should be open.
Saying he is paid a lot and that means he should recruit better is not really comparing apples to apples. If people really think the playing field is level in recruiting when it comes to what Alabama and Clemson do compared to Michigan then I don’t know what to say.
You’re right. Let’s pay him according to how many big ten titles, playoff appearances, victories against OSU, bowl game wins, QBs the whisperer has put in the NFL, etc.
Implicit in the article is that michigan must lower its standards to compete---academically and in character.
Yea it would be a shame if we lowered our high standards of kinesiology and general studies majors so we wouldn't be able to brag about team gpa anymore.
I am so tired of these BS arguments. I graduated from the school of Kinesiology. I (& my classmates) are doing just fine thank you. As have many athletes who have gone through the doors.
The fact that you don't see one is treating this like it is actually an amateur football program and the other like the 3rd profession team in Ohio as the main difference is...obtuse? naive? dumb?
The people who say kinesiology is a joke likely never attended uofm. Same with general studies criticism. General studies is not some special set of classes. It’s normal classes that fall into different disciplines.
What basis do you have for this? Did we have different standards back under Lloyd Carr then when he was signing top ten classes nearly every year, some top five? Go look at the list of All Americans we had from 1990 to 2007. Literally multiple on nearly every team.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Michigan_Wolverines_football_All-Americans
His assistant coaching staff has often been too loaded with old dogs who don’t wanna bust their ass recruiting any more, which is bad because he doesn’t like It/want to do it either.
Hiring McIlwain was one of the lowest points in his tenure, because he took up a coaching position which should have gone to a young energetic striver ready to beat the breaks off everyone on the trail and gave it to a guy who couldn’t recruit kids to FLORIDA. Having 19 offensive coordinators so they can all offer input just ties up more position coach slots that need to be knock down drag out recruiters. And by the time he has corrected that by having one OC, he’s put himself in a years long recruiting hole.
Didn’t OSU hire some of these same assistants including “old dog” Mattison?
Who, now?
Some chick named ari
This dude needs a proofreader.
I personally agree
I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some, uh, people out there in our nation don't have maps and, uh, I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and, uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and, I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, or, uh, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future. For our children.
Oof, I have to work up courage to watch that video it's so damn cringe-worthy
Best to watch on mute.
Such as!
Bless her heart. She's not as pretty as I am, but that sounded like me in response to my name being called on in law school every single time it happened.
00:10 "easier said than done"
That was the foreshadowing statement of the year.
One of the more under-appreciated parts of this video is Slater.
You can tell he just wants to crack up laughing, but he keeps it in and (somehow) stays professional.
The comments were taken from a free form interview on, "Michigan Podcast", hosted by Steve Deace, on YouTube. The OP tried to link it, but failed. Hard to proofread a discussion, though.
Steve later had Ari on for a discussion which was amusing. Steve didn't do much to prove his case.
I personally believe thats high school sophomore writing, and I personally discount everything he has to say because I personally expect more even from an osu beat writer. I personally believe he should have used more self declarative statements
This reads like a bad blog post written for a high school journalism class.
1) Michigan is not going to get the same caliber of recruits OSU gets until Michigan beats them or beats them on a somewhat regular basis
2) OSU is literally recruiting better than any other team in the country right now. Something is going on there that is somehow making them a more appealing option than Clemson, Bama, UGA, LSU, even though theoretically there's a lot of reasons they're better options
3) How much a coach is paid doesn't correlate to success and it's a stupid argument. Schools can pay anyone as much as they want
4) Michigan is on the right track offensively, but defense is becoming the issue for a defensive oriented team. Even with talent, Don Brown was getting destroyed. Now, we have lost almost all of our recruiters on defense and now we're going to have a Don Brown defense with far inferior talent than we had before. We need to bring in talent on defense and we need scheme to match that talent. Harbaugh and Brown need to find recruiters for the defensive side of the ball asap or we're not going anywhere in the B1G. Harbaugh needs to find the Gattis for our defense
1) Not true. UM has problems with too many assistants that aren't good recruiters, not enough emphasis on taking guys with high rankings, and an administrative staff who are nowhere close to what OSU has in place in Mark Pantoni.
2) Ryan Day, his assistants, and Mark Pantoni are relentless and take nothing for granted. Steve Wiltfong's words not mine.
3) I had no problem with Harbaugh's salary because we needed to lure him away from the NFL. The problem is he's not been worth the investment.
4) It's year 6 and we're "on the right track." Super duper. Not sure if you've seen what OSU is bringing in on offense in recruiting last year and this year but unless UM starts signing multiple top 100 guys and fast Ryan Day is going to hang 60 on us every season in his sleep.
What would a thread started by Maizen be without slobbering all over OSU’s recruiting. Hey, can you also tell us how good Alabama and Clemson are? I haven’t heard from you much since you were booted off the site for doing exactly what you’re doing now
Everything is true. Why does the truth scare and upset so many on this blog?
It's honestly bizarre how many people are OK with OSU kicking our ass every year for the last 15 years and their first reaction to anyone who tries to point why out that is and what needs to get better is to condemn that person for "trolling."
Jim Harbaugh has the best job in the world, get paid like the best coach in the sport, lose to your biggest rival every year, don't try hard enough in recruiting, and then have your own fan base make excuses for you.
Moderators / site owners: Why does this dipshit still have his/her points?
Oh that’s right, you get to play martyr as well. I forgot about that. You who speaks the truth and everyone else who accepts mediocrity and likes losing to OSU. Get. The. Fuck. Off. My. Court.
Dazn.. maizen.. are YOU even trying?
I, PERSONALLY dont think that you are..
this makes me sick to my stomach to say this...but osu and clemson have the recruiting advantage right now of a near guarantee trip to the playoff most years because they have no other top 10 programs in their respective conferences....
Half of the Michigan roster OSU wouldn't even look twice at. Look at OSU's commit list this year (and they are from done which is scary) and last year. Meanwhile we're taking commitments from guys like Dominick Guidice and Casey Phinney (go back every year there are 5-6 guys in every class who have no business being here). And then people want to blame it on academics or bagmen or basically anything except the head coach. I don't get it. Lloyd Carr can sign three #1 QB's in the nation in Drew Henson, Chad Henne, and Ryan Mallett but Harbaugh can't even start a guy he recruited out of high school 6 years into the job.