Are we under utilizing Grant Perry and DPJ in the short passing game?

Submitted by Barn Animal on September 30th, 2018 at 3:05 PM

Last night and over this season as a whole I couldn't help but wondering why Grant Perry and the short passing game in general isn't more a part of our offense. We do utilize some dumpoffs and Wr screens but there seems to be a lack of slants, out routes, or "sitting down in a zone (at least that are being targeted) by our receivers. 

Grant Perry's route running seems like it would be a huge asset in getting "bread and butter" pass plays for 7-10 yards where Perry simply beats a guy 1 v 1. DPJ is less of a route running savant but slants, outs, and drags would be a good way to get him the ball on the run and let him make some plays like Penn St does with KJ Hamler (I know DPJ and Hamler on different players but both are fast and dynamic with the ball).

Is there an explanation for this or is this something they should do more of? Or am I totally off base? (Which I probably am)

If this is too Snowflakey please delete.

The Truth Hurts

September 30th, 2018 at 4:32 PM ^

Sorry my man but this is Michigan's offense, we are not saving anything.  Our offensive imagination is not good. Got to stop blaming the o line, they open holes for the running back, rb not hitting it.  QBS have 3 to 4 seconds to find a receiver,  but by them being under center a majority of the time, the play need more time to develop.  We have to develop a faster tempo.  They are not creating mismatches wit their TEs.  They do not do anything.

Catchafire

September 30th, 2018 at 3:56 PM ^

"Chipping" was the word used all week?  I think if we had a strong line we would see more but we just don't.

Next time we win the coin toss we better go on defense.

Leonhall

September 30th, 2018 at 3:58 PM ^

Our receiver routes are either too long, take too long or something. It doesn’t bode well for us in oct if struggled to get separate from NW’s DB’s. Something isn’t right. Quicker play routes are needed. We also NEVER attack the seam, why? 

jbuch002

September 30th, 2018 at 4:02 PM ^

There's more to this question than, "Harbaugh has been surpassed ....." or "Patterson is too short .....", etc.

Fundamentally, Harbaughffense is run-centric. That's probably fine or to him it's fine and he really doesn't care what we think.

I was surprised to learn that v. neb and NW, the run game averaged just over 6ypc. Did it look like that to you v. NW? Not to me it didn't and I was there. Frustrating was the immediate feeling I dealt with for 3.5 quarters watching Higdon get stuffed on first down or 4th and 1 more times than I can count ...... actually it was probably way less but my subjective in-game perceptions were influenced by that sense. I bet the UFR will show us a different story, objectively, about the effectiveness of the run game and why there isn't more passing - short or long.

Runs probably won that game or set up pass plays that contributed. The real time player data sheet that is on the sidelines and available to Harbaugh (not to us) to decide on what plays are going to be productive v. NW given down and distance is a part of the play calling process. From all appearances, the run game that sets up the PA or the RO was working from JH's perspective and that's what he called about 65% of the time v. NW and Neb.

I'll also be surprised that the short passing game to the middle of the field is NOT in the playbook. We just haven's seem them because, (1) they are high risk for turnovers or injury to a player and (2) If they are being run in practice, diabolical Harbaugh is either saving them for the right time/need/opponent defense or smart Harbaugh knows that the offense hasn't got these plays down quite yet. Keep practicing them. 

G. Gulo of the Dale

September 30th, 2018 at 4:48 PM ^

Didn't we run the ball 42 times for 180 yds. against Northwestern, for an average of 4.3 yds. a carry?  

Against Nebraska we averaged 2 yds. per carry higher, and Higdon and Tru Wilson, who got the bulk of the carries prior to the 4th quarter, averaged 10 yds. per carry between them.  

Our feature back went from averaging 11.3 yds. against Nebraska to averaging 3.8 against Northwestern.  So there is a reason that the games felt different.  

jbuch002

September 30th, 2018 at 5:27 PM ^

The box score I came up with the 6 ypg figure for M v. Neb (no TFLs) showed 45 attempts, 285 yards, 6.33 ypc. I did not calculate ypc by down.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2018-09-22-michigan.html

This box score shows a 4.6 ypg for M v NW (TFL adjusted) on 42 attempts for 193 yards.

https://mgoblue.com/documents/2018/9/30/20180929_fbl_northwestern.pdf

I used a breakdown of ypc by down v. NW and that figure came out to be about 6 ypg on first down on my original post. I should have noted that. The ypc's v. NW by down (about 6 ypc on 1st down) or total (about 4.6 ypc) would seem to me to be sufficient to induce repeated play calls that were runs...... or as a reasonable expectation of a run-centric Harbaughffense that is efficient enough to not require more of a short passing game. JMO. YMMV. 

 

jbuch002

September 30th, 2018 at 5:28 PM ^

The box score I came up with the 6 ypg figure for M v. Neb (no TFLs) showed 45 attempts, 285 yards, 6.33 ypc. I did not calculate ypc by down.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2018-09-22-michigan.html

This box score shows a 4.6 ypg for M v NW (TFL adjusted) on 42 attempts for 193 yards.

https://mgoblue.com/documents/2018/9/30/20180929_fbl_northwestern.pdf

I used a breakdown of ypc by down v. NW and that figure came out to be about 6 ypg on first down on my original post. I should have noted that. The ypc's v. NW by down (about 6 ypc on 1st down) or total (about 4.6 ypc) would seem to me to be sufficient to induce repeated play calls that were runs...... or as a reasonable expectation of a run-centric Harbaughffense that is efficient enough to not require more of a short passing game. JMO. YMMV. 

 

Leonhall

September 30th, 2018 at 4:06 PM ^

It also seems like we use very little pre snap motion of Collins, DPJ, or Gentry. We line Collins and DPJ up wide everytime. We don’t look for mismatches, Gentry is a mismatch for everybody, with our struggles in the RZ, you would have thought we would see Gentry lined up wide for a jump ball, put some pressure on the defense, but no. Our offense is too old and contains little to no imagination. We will struggle in October unless something changes.

The Fan in Fargo

September 30th, 2018 at 4:15 PM ^

I'd say this. The coaching staff knows what it's doing. They will do what they have to with their personnel when these big games are here. You don't show your hand and good plays days before a game like Wiscy and Sharty. You bank on those idiots in Lansing not using their heads and doing their due diligence of Michigan's playbook. You bank on their intelligence and their capacity to not look back further than a couple games. Something tells me their unhealthy obsession with The University of Michigan will override their brain power though. Here's to hoping Mork gets hit by a car and breaks every bone in his legs so he cant coach anymore. 

DairyQueen

September 30th, 2018 at 11:58 PM ^

I get what you're saying, but I do think that Harbaugh has that NFL mentality, where it's 1st and foremost about winning your division, getting to the playoffs (winning the conference), and then going to the CFP (championship).

He's never been emotional about non-conference losses. And unlike fans/analysts he doesn't care about winning by a big margin. Also, we definitely show unique packages every week in a buildup to running more and more.

I'm not saying it's the "best" thing to do. But he's shown a clear pattern about how he strategizes the season.

Of course fans want to see their team smash everyone on site, but for coaches, a win is a win and winning, flashing new plays, etc. might be fulfilling to the fans, but hasn't answered, for the coach, how consistently the off-tackle run is blocked, or which guard pulls the best.

Yes, a lot of ~0-yarders, but as a coach you need to run it and check how it's working, that practice/info is undeniably necessary going forward. 

AWAS

September 30th, 2018 at 4:16 PM ^

It feels like we have seen the Cliff Notes version of the playbook so far.  You can see where the foundation is being laid with reps of base plays, with nuances to be built over time.  The reality of 20 contact hours/.week is that there is limited time to rep plays. I, for one, would rather run fewer plays well than many plays with high variance results.  Minimize mistakes, lean on your defense, win the game.  This approach generally works, but it certainly is not as pleasing to the eye as watching, say, Beilein's offense.  

AlbanyBlue

September 30th, 2018 at 4:43 PM ^

Solid points, but the same narrative for the entirety of JH's tenure. I really hope he is saving constraints/counters for games besides OSU, but I'll believe it when I see it.

That four-receiver formation was nice (was it illegal?) and I hope we see more creativity like that.

M-jed

September 30th, 2018 at 4:31 PM ^

I wonder the same, worry we won’t see anything different and hope it’s the ol’ rope a dope. We kept hoping there was a special set of plays for Peppers but they never materialized. But, the OSU gameplans have been good. Time will tell, of course.

OSU went to the short passing game last night and let their athletes #makeplays to win. I thought it was a good adjustment to what PSU was doing. 

bluepalooza

September 30th, 2018 at 4:34 PM ^

I do think Michigan has elite playmakers at WR and QB. I think the play calling is fine. At times, it is the execution that leaves something to be desired. How many times do you see one small thing be the difference from a big play or converted 3rd down? Last night we seen a drop pass on a perfectly thrown ball, a WR just needing to put head down and turn up field to make line to gain or missed block that prevented a big play or a penalty. The only thing that will improve the small things is repitition. I do see improvement with Michigan since the ND game. Yesterday was a HUGE confidence boost for this team. No it was not a top 25 win on the road. But that will come. Michigan loses that game in 2016 and 2017. That game will make Michigan's victory this year in East Lansing possible. A lot went wrong and they still won. Michigan will know, whatever happens in East Lansing, they will never be out of game.

KC Wolve

September 30th, 2018 at 4:57 PM ^

Who knows. I think so. Perry used to be able to get open on pretty much any slant. I just can’t figure out the passing game. It looks like the receivers all run flys on every play. Even when there is protection from the Oline, Shea just seems to be waiting and waiting for someone to get open. Even the short routes seem to me long throws across the field that take a bit to develop. Watching OSU run screens and short passes to give the WR some space make me wonder what in the world UMs passing game is trying to accomplish some times. 

uminks

October 1st, 2018 at 12:52 AM ^

OSU seem to have good short timing patterns. Michigan QBs always seem to have trouble throwing quick to the space and have the WR there ready to make the catch. Michigan WR run around wide open and Shea has to look for who is the most open. Looks like the OL is improving and he has time to make throws but either the WR are running the wrong routes or they just cannot get open quick enough and Shea gets flushed out of the pocket and that is usually when he sees a WR getting open and makes a good play.

jsquigg

September 30th, 2018 at 5:01 PM ^

They under utilize the short passing game in general.  All the other dumb offense hot takes are over played and boil down to not finishing drives with TDs.  My main issue is with predictable run calls and pace as well as with the lack of a short passing game.  All that said, the pace at which they play makes everything bigger than it should be because they dominated after they were down early.  Warinner also deserves a raise.  If you would have told me Runyan would look like an average B10 starter and mitigate the Gaz left mostly one on one after ND I would have thought you were insane.  They won the battle upfront when they weren't telegraphing the offense, and even when they were sometimes.  People just need to enjoy the wins and let the team develop.  If/when they beat the rivals it will be amazing to see everyone's hot takes change.  Until then the overstated disappointment is insufferable.  If it's that bad go the fuck away and watch something that doesn't make you miserable.

poppinfresh

September 30th, 2018 at 5:13 PM ^

Yes... for example a third down corner fade to perry yesterday as opposed to Collins. Why not give your throw more margin for error.

another. Other teams kill us with slants why not do that while driving down field and let perry get 5-7 yard chunks. 

And of course Evans. Should be getting 4-6 targets in the passing game per game, not per season

titanfan11

September 30th, 2018 at 5:51 PM ^

When the opponent's go to a dime defense, they actually get to put 10 DBs out there against Michigan, so it is really 11 on 17.  Because of that, we rarely see receivers running in space with no one around them.  

Wait...is that just what it seems/feels like when I am watching Michigan games? 

Wolverine91

September 30th, 2018 at 6:19 PM ^

yea easy answer is that harbaugh's offense (if that's what you even call it) flat out sucks and its very disappointing

BoCanHam15

September 30th, 2018 at 8:27 PM ^

For the love of the most high. We always over think things.  For one, we cannot afford certain things to happen.  We were down 17-0.  That changes the way any offense operates.  Conservative calls are due to the fact that if; Michigan turns the ball over one more time the game would’ve been essentially over.  Our playbook has more to it.  You cannot say that one game Harbaugh plans the best game ever and then say he forgot how to run an offense.  Is it nauseating yes.  But he isn’t entertaining us on purpose.  Bo Pelini was fired for only winning 9-10 games a year and now they are undefeated backwards.  Our offense will get better and of course there are better plays to come in the near future.  Some people would complain if they landed in paradise on accident.  Oh boy.

Sten Carlson

September 30th, 2018 at 11:47 PM ^

This ^^^

So many know nothing about situational football, all they know (or think they know) is that every play that doesn’t work is bad call.  No, it’s not. 

Remember, the other team is trying to take away things they know we want to do too.  You guys get that, right?  It’s not a call in isolation or in a vacuum.  It’s against other coaches and players who have studied your tendencies and know your tells.  Also, as hard as it is for many of you, when a wide open TE drops a pass, that needs to be a check mark in the good column for play calling.  They worked him open with play calling, but the players failed.  But that goes both ways.  Sometimes a great call is blown up by a great defensive play.

Often times, despite what many in here think, you have to take what the defense gives you and avoid the temptation to force plays that aren’t there.  It’s clear that Harbaugh has got that into Shea’s game ... do NOT force it downfield!  We have a great defense.  Just don’t put them in a quick change and we’ll be right there in the end.  

Barn Animal

October 1st, 2018 at 1:35 AM ^

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. Maybe you're not responding to me.

Of course things don’t happen in a vacuum but we have multiple data points now that Grant Perry is not being used in this offense.

And the point of a short passing game is to not force it downfield and get easy completions that get the ball out quick.

 

GoBluePhil

September 30th, 2018 at 8:49 PM ^

We don’t run any crossing patterns with WR’s.  We are always throwing either the bomb or throwing to the boundary with the WR’s.  We don’t get them in space.

TSimpson77

September 30th, 2018 at 9:34 PM ^

Until they get rid of Pep they’ll underutilize a lot of people. There are no short passes or seemingly no hot routes in his offense. The Colts fired him for a reason, predictable and vanilla offense. 

Wings Of Distinction

September 30th, 2018 at 10:37 PM ^

Slants and quick outs are 3 step drop patterns.

When we run shotgun 2/3 of the time, those plays aren't as much of an option.

Sten Carlson

September 30th, 2018 at 11:34 PM ^

I swear to Yost so many of you have complete selective recall of games and only remember that which suits your whining narrative.  

Michigan came out doing its best “break tendency” scheme to begin a game in which a) they’re play Fitz (who is a great coach and always seems to scheme well against us); and b) they’re coming off a bye week.  Coach said it, they were ready schematically.  But, the game might well have turned out significantly different had the first Michigan possession — which was passing and creatively oriently and had NO Higdon runs — been even marginally successful.  That’s what all you guys whine about, isn’t it?

There in lies the rub of going out of tendency — it’s higher variance and might backfire.  Well, it did.  Now what?  Well, first thing is first, down 17 early, don’t panic, get back to what YOU do (which is run the ball) and claw your way back.  Klatt said it clearly, it all starts with Higdon.  Once he got going, the Michigan offense got going.  

But, if you were expecting Harbaugh, on a flag littered field, to “open it up” just to show how creative and adventurous he is, you’re an idiot.  With a defense like the one he has, the ONLY thing that keeps NW in the contest is a turnover (and the refs).  Why take those chances needlessly?  Oh wait, I know why, because 99.9% of all the whining comes from people who know FUCK ALL about coaching and play calling.   

I swear, some of you only bitch, and never see the forest for the trees.  Harbaugh has a plan to lull the other team into the box, then rip them.  But, it requires one thing: EXECUTION!  Was it a bad play call when McKeon dropped that pass?  Or how about when Shea ripped off those two runs that got called back?  Those don’t count to you guys do they?  

It’s a game played by players.  Harbaugh and Brown called the game they needed to call.  Whether or not it’s the game YOU want to see is meaningless.   Of course there are players and plays not being used right now.  No, they’re not hiding them, it’s just that situational football (which is what really matters) didn’t call for them.  High variance plays — when you’re not desperate — are not appropriate for a game in which you’re likely to lose with one turnover.  Sometimes, you just have to slog it out.  

Why is that so hard to get?

Sten Carlson

October 1st, 2018 at 2:02 AM ^

I’m not saying that.  I’m saying Michigan came out throwing, and running a jet sweep to Bell, not running.  

Have you ever thought that maybe the opposing defense was setting up to restrict slants?  Again, there’s another team to account for, not just Michigan.  Since they didn’t throw one I’d guess that they didn’t like the read/look.  I can promise you they didn’t forget about Perry nor the slant.