Anyone really surprised by Kelly's sideline posture as suggested by MZone?
In no way is this to be interpreted as a slam against that short article, but anyone familiar with Kelly's game time behavior is fully aware that the actions described in referenced article are not out of character at all.
Herbie might have had a problem with it, and even some ND fans may have been disappointed their coach behaved "inappropriately," but rest assured it did not surprise those in charge of the hiring or fans that have watched Kelly in the past at places like GVSU, CMU, et.al.
As a GVSU alum -granted pre-Kelly and still during the quarter system - I am fully aware of his game time persona, but not at all with how he conducts himself at practice and whether or not it's different than Saturdays. If not, then I'm sure the players have no more problems with it than they would on a Tuesday or Thursday and speaks more of how Herbie preferred to be coached and the difference between a Cooper and a Hayes.
ND has displayed enough arrogance in hiring inexperienced college head coaches, highlighted by the Faust hiring that was roughly the equivalent of promoting a corporal to a Brigadier General, bypassing approximately 15 positions in the process, that they knew something had to change.
I think their premature claims to a return to glory have been heard enough times in their AD's office that he has clearly received the message that sometimes they'll have to go outside the comfort level of alumni or subway fans to get someone actually capable of performing that feat.
As is the case with RR, I think BK will be just fine there in his head coaching duties, but again just like Rich remaining true to who he really is, ND fans and TV commentators will have to accept the fact that Kelly, albeit a very successful football coach, is an arrogant ass, and that's not meant as an insult either, but just to point out to people unfamiliar with Kelly just what type of personality he possesses. Believe me, it's not one that would compel you to invite him to meet the gang at Joe's on a normal Thurs evening.
September 15th, 2010 at 10:04 AM ^
Are you claiming that RR is an arogant ass as is Kelly? Because I don't see that really, just someone who is really really passionate about football, and sick and tired of being portrayed negatively by the media.
September 15th, 2010 at 10:09 AM ^
It doesn't sound to me like that is the comparison he is making. The RR thing seems to be comparing the fact that ND hired a coach that some fans and alums may feel is not worthy of such a job. Not the arogant ass part. At least that was my take.
September 15th, 2010 at 10:15 AM ^
it sounds like he's saying that we're now getting to know the "real" RR, who is a great coach, but also down-to-earth and personable and not the rules-flouting, win-at-all-costs jerk he's been portrayed as. Similiarly, the "real" BK will soon be known - great coach, but also very arrogant.
The parallel is the revelation of the real personalities, not that they're both arrogant.
September 15th, 2010 at 10:32 AM ^
mea culpa. Now that I read my original post, I can see where some might have been mislead. I think originally, I had stated something to the effect, "just as surely as Rich is down-to-earth, so too is BK arrogant," but being very tired, I forgot to put all the parts back together again when reassembling. Rich's actual warmth and gregarious nature are probably two of his greatest recruiting tools. I think this is where the Detroit media really screwed themselves.
I honestly believe he thought he would be accepted with open arms, much like at WVU. I don't think he thought for a minute the writers here could be so petty and mean-spirited. His accessibility was refreshing as hell to most readers because we got to read daily what was happening within the program. This was new to the writers also. But some, just because he wasn't their first choice, took advantage and in one of his best moves to date, shut the gates of the fort back up. They just couldn't accept the fact his friendly demeanor was not an act at all, and they mistakenly interpreted it as a sign of an inferior coach. In that respect, they were 0 for 2. Sorry about the misunderstanding. Like I said, I'm very tired.
September 15th, 2010 at 10:56 AM ^
-1 for no reading comprehension.
September 15th, 2010 at 11:12 AM ^
September 15th, 2010 at 5:36 PM ^
No, but RR get similiarly excitable and our alumni were used to an angry grizzled oak tree under Lloyd for god knows how long. I've heard a number of anti-RRod types use that as a major slur against him (because god knows Bo and Woody had perfect tempers and never swore at their players or got angry on bad plays....)
September 15th, 2010 at 10:08 AM ^
As a GVSU alum as well, and a little off topic, it didn't shock me one bit to see him go for the endzone at the end of the 1st half. On topic, RR is no way even close to as arrogant as BK is. RR handles the media extremely well and conducts himself much better than BK, at least in the spotlight.
September 15th, 2010 at 11:56 AM ^
To add on to what you said, BK seems like a guy who thinks he can do no wrong. That works for him because he is relentless in his work ethic and drive. But, he really couldn't give a fuck what anyone thinks about him and IMO, at a place like ND that might come back to bite him.
As well, I have heard stories of him being a complete asshole to nearly anyone, from his days back at GVSU. I am not saying that they are all truth or cemented fact, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has heard stories and rumblings. And generally, where there's smoke, there's fire...
September 15th, 2010 at 11:40 AM ^
It was probably a mistake for BK not to take the safe 3 at the end of the first half, but I can see the rationale to be aggressive there. It was definitely a mistake IME to throw the ball with Montana running well and throwing like, well, someone not named Montana.
Kicking a field goal Saturday at the end of the first half was not an option for Kelly, with his team down 21-7 and the Irish with the ball on the Michigan 3-yard line with three seconds left.
The Irish lined up and ran a play from scrimmage as Montana's pass sailed into the stands on a heave that was in the general direction of Michael Floyd.
“Maybe that's my problem, but I didn't even think about a field goal,” Kelly said. “If there was hindsight, 20/20, I would have called a different (pass) play, because that one didn't work.” Source.
September 15th, 2010 at 10:11 AM ^
I think ND is perfectly happy and quite accustomed to having arrogant asses coach their football teams. In fact I don't think they'd have it any other way.
September 15th, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^
This is correct. Charlie Weiss was not a Lou Holtz or any other coach that alumni love. My dad participated in a fund raiser for an ND Charity raising a good deal of $, and Weiss barely acknowledged people, even the high rolling donors.
If Kelly wins, people will get over his yelling at players.
September 15th, 2010 at 3:30 PM ^
It's funny. I've heard stuff about Weis that's all over the place. Some call him insufferably arrogant and aloof, and others call him really kind and genuine. I don't know what to make of him. In Kelly's case, it's pretty much only arrogance and aloofness that you hear about.
September 15th, 2010 at 10:16 AM ^
Im really going to miss Charlie Weiss on the sidelines tho.
September 15th, 2010 at 10:17 AM ^
i am surprised there is no mention in the article of kelly's dramatic eyeroll after his team's two fail mary passes . . . . kelly should look at his own performance. his failure to call time-outs on michigan's last drive was a gift to michigan and displayed weis-like incompetence.
September 15th, 2010 at 3:32 PM ^
I was amazed that he did not call a timeout after Roundtree's catch. I can't believe how many coaches screw this up. We gained a first down with 47 seconds left and waited until there were 30 seconds left to snap the ball. Kelly saved his timeouts . . . and ended up never using one of them. You can stop the clock in various ways, but you can never get back time you've lost.
We've been fortunate in this regard. Clock management was one of Carr's strengths, and RR seems to be solid at it as well.
September 15th, 2010 at 10:20 AM ^
Just curious, what did Herbie say about his sideline demeanor? Must have missed that.
September 15th, 2010 at 10:33 AM ^
Kelly seems classy in interviews. Is there an opinion out there that he is more arrogant as you see him in public more and more?
September 15th, 2010 at 11:27 AM ^
I'm probably the wrong person to ask, but I don't think so. I think one major thing folks are talking about is chewing people out in front of everyone, rather than writing it down, and chewing you out later. Probably chewing out a 2nd string Frosh QB, or a former walk-on, is what people were sensitive to.
September 15th, 2010 at 11:35 AM ^
Got it. Thanks. I don't have problems with coaches getting on players. If that is their style, it is better they express it, then be phoney and hold it in.
Said the guy who is home watching it with a beer in front of the tv and not the chewee.
September 15th, 2010 at 12:28 PM ^
Yeah i mean as long as he's like "What are you doing? Get your head out of your *** you're better than that." And not like "You miserable piece of crap what are you doing?"
September 15th, 2010 at 10:49 AM ^
Kelly's demeanor is right on track with how he was at Cincy. He did that rolling his eyes thing alot when things didnt go well, and called out players right in front of the cameras. It will just be that much more fun watching ND lose this year. It could really come unraveled quick. The undressing of Montana right before halftime was wrong. I felt bad for the kid. Makes me really appreciate the class of RR and how he has kept his cool and stayed the course the last 2 years.
September 15th, 2010 at 11:09 AM ^
You try coaching Threet and not yelling at him during games :).
September 15th, 2010 at 11:17 AM ^
Exactly! Nick Montana isn't Joe.
September 15th, 2010 at 11:52 AM ^
Neither is Nate. ;-)
September 15th, 2010 at 12:46 PM ^
Owned.
September 15th, 2010 at 1:19 PM ^
Damn Montanas...too many of those fuckers.
September 15th, 2010 at 10:53 AM ^
Bitching about Kelly's in-your-face-coaching-style is another example of the pussification of college football coaching. Since when do we claim that 18-23 year old "men" need to be coddled and hand-held.
College is the transition from boy-to-man. No where is it (or should be) seen than on the sidelines of a college game. Coach away Kelly.
And RR had a couple moments in that game too. I re-watched the game last night and saw RR come running down the sideline to bitch out Stonum who ran the wrong route on an Odoms (maybe Roundtree?) pass reception. Stonum unded up blocking his man 5 feet from the catch which allowed Stonum's DB to easily assist the tacke. It was a first down - but RR was coaching up his WR his way.
September 15th, 2010 at 11:11 AM ^
Coddled I like and something for nothing please...signed Adam James.
September 15th, 2010 at 12:00 PM ^
undressing the freshman and walkon yet didn't see him undress the five star who threw the hail mary to the Michigan band. That may have been because TV didn't show it, but there were some other terrible throws by Crist that didn't seem to draw the ire of BK in the same fashion.
Maybe BK better figure out a way to use Michael Floyd.
September 15th, 2010 at 12:31 PM ^
The game was over.
September 15th, 2010 at 2:10 PM ^
It's not only college football, but this seems to be the trend in America these days too (pussification that is). Getting yelled at is part of the game anywhere. I know when I played sports, I got yelled at when I screwed up too, so what? People get heated and get yelled at when they screw up, get over it people. If these kids can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!
September 15th, 2010 at 10:59 AM ^
I'd never really seen Kelly in a game or interview prior to this last weekend. I know he's popular with some on these boards, but he comes across as a douche to me. Based partly on his comportment on the sideline, but mostly his style during interviews, I have no problem continuing to hate Notre Dame with no qualms for the duration of his tenure.
September 15th, 2010 at 11:06 AM ^
saint on the sidelines himself and really what is wrogn with a coach expressing himself on the sidelines? Do we really all want Tom Landry coaching every team?
September 15th, 2010 at 11:07 AM ^
How many Grand Valley grads read MGoBlog?
I've seen more and more GV references from some posters and as a recent grad (2009) I was just curious how many GV alums there are on here.
September 15th, 2010 at 11:20 AM ^
I know there's at least 6 that I have seen (that have it in their user name or have talked about it)...sure there is more. For what it's worth, I know a lot of former GVSU players really didn't mesh well with BK. Apprently he's a huge asshole -- however he knows his stuff and can win football games.
September 15th, 2010 at 11:55 AM ^
2008 GVSU grad here.
September 15th, 2010 at 3:43 PM ^
September 15th, 2010 at 5:07 PM ^
2008 GV grad. Brian Kelly has always acted like this. I was just kinda bummed when he took Chuck Martin along with him.
September 15th, 2010 at 11:11 AM ^
i truly believe that both coaches will be very successful but that neither one realized the size of the stage each would be occupying. rr made some gaffes in dealing with the faithful and has been hounded for it; kelly has never truly coached a major power (i don't count cinti).
some members of the national media were gushing over kelly before last saturday. i heard comments saying he makes everyone want to be around him. i wonder if these will be repeated, especially by those who were able to read lips during the game
September 15th, 2010 at 11:18 AM ^
for me, as Lloyd or RichRod do--that is, just (if very different) interesting people with some history and humility about them. At some point, when you come to like a coach like that--assuming a certain degree of real success--you begin to put that above wins and losses. I'm glad we've got the coach we've got.
September 15th, 2010 at 5:41 PM ^
I do have to say, as meteoric as his rise and career have been, I have never once seen RRod do anything I would think comes across as remotely arrogant. I don't know how he interacts with our alumni illumanati, but I always get the impression he'd invite anyone over for some Rotel queso dip and talk their ear off about the sport he loves.
September 15th, 2010 at 11:37 AM ^
Was how the blog was always referenced when I first came to MgoBlog years ago- "Six Toes?" was the pop-up info when mousing-over on the link.
It seemed to me that the article - including the yelling at TD Jesus part - was meant to parallel (sp?) the uproar that U of M fans had with RR after years of LC's low-key style -- and maybe tweak Domers a bit.
September 15th, 2010 at 11:58 AM ^
virtue, but clearly not critical to being a good football coach or popular with a fan base. Winning is. Outside of Gator fans, who liked Steve Spurrier when he was at Florida? Who liked Lane outside of Vol nation last year? Carrol? Meyer? Arrogance and "innapropriate" sideline behavior probably won't sit well with Dame fans in the short term. Long run, they'll live with it when the wins come. I don't think they cared much when Granny Holtz yanked the facemasks of his players to pull them within inches of his sideline tirades.
There were time when I thought Bo was being an ass. Lloyd could definitely be an ass. I liked them anyway.
September 15th, 2010 at 1:25 PM ^
some of the people who worked with and for him. A lot of people hated his guts.
September 15th, 2010 at 11:57 AM ^
The vast majority of coaching takes place before game day. Herbstreit should probably avoid judging Kelly's coaching based on what he saw on the TV. Coaches yelling at people is nothing new or shocking. Some good coaches do it and some bad coaches do it. We will find out which of those Kelly will be at ND over time.
I also thought Herbstreits analogy that yelling at Montana or Rhees was like 'yelling at a 3 year old for not being able to drive a car' was more offensive than what Kelly did (did Herbstreit actually say that?) First off, in that analogy Rhees and Montana are the 3 year old. Montana is a college junior not a three year old. I think he can handle being yelled at a little. Second, no three year old can drive a car regardless of how much you practice. There are a lot of freshmen (or juniors) that don't play QB like ass. Notre Dames QB practice. This is their job. Maybe they don't deserve to be yelled at but they are not toddlers being asked to do something beyond their ability. Montana did throw the ball out of the back of endzone on 4th down. Presumably, he knows that doesn't make any sense.
RichRod yells at lots of players on gameday. For an example, watch his reaction to Shaw running backwards and losing 11 yards against UConn.
September 15th, 2010 at 1:28 PM ^
but I disagree with you about coaches who scream at kids. Some successful coaches start out that way; a lot of successful coaches shout from time to time. But coaches who can't get through to people any other way don't succeed long-term; they also have heart attacks.
The ball was conveniently thrown out of the end zone twice in that game.
September 15th, 2010 at 12:19 PM ^
After watching Kelly blow the game against Boston College (vs CMU) in 2006 with a bonehead "hotdog" formation which resulted in an interception, when at the time CMU beating a major college team would have been akin to winning the BCS Championship him going for the touchdown did not surprise me in the least bit. Its really hard to knock him though as he has met success whereever he has went and seems to live by the live hard, play hard mantra.