43-37 since Lloyd retired

Submitted by MGlobules on

Let's all sear this into our craniums/a, and have it tatooed on our chests, what do you say? 43-37 since Lloyd. When was the last time you saw this team play with swagger? 

We need a new coach with fire. We need to shut up about the tradition for half a decade. And then--if we've got anywhere--let's quietly reference it as something we're trying to live up to. The 1940s are well and truly over.  

westwardwolverine

September 22nd, 2014 at 8:26 AM ^

Man. All I can think about when I hear the name Lloyd Carr is how he said that going into the 2011 season our players were too small to play in the Big Ten and we'd struggle to compete. Now here we are 4 years later with big, hulking Hoke recruits and we've been outscored 57-10 by real opponents. 

Bitter old man is definitely part of the reason we are in the mess we are in today. 

1M1Ucla

September 22nd, 2014 at 11:54 AM ^

to have someone on his staff who could be ready to be head coach at Michigan.  The only two of Lloyd's coaches who have made successes of themselves coaching anywhere are Mattison and Hoke, and both of them were brought on by Mo.

Fifteen years as head coach and not one assistant who can make it anywhere.  Loeffler seems to have things looking up finally.  Cam Cameron, Deboard, Hermann, Campbell, English, yada, yada.

Count the number of excellent coaches that worked for Bo: Mo, McCartney, Don Nehlen, Chuck Stobart, Jim Young, Les Miles, Larry Smith, and Lloyd Carr.

The last 7 years are all on Lloyd's failure to hire and develop good assistants.

BobbyKunz12

September 22nd, 2014 at 8:28 AM ^

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westwardwolverine

September 22nd, 2014 at 9:02 AM ^

guys, at first i thought this was spam, but guess what? its no hoke! (lol). really good info here. who the qb was last week, whats going on in the big ten (link tooscores from espn!) and all the inside gossip from inside the fort. we're talking about the next mgoblog here. brian better watch himself, cause theres a new um blog on the web that has premier um info on the web!

maizenblue92

September 22nd, 2014 at 10:26 AM ^

Now does he have to eat individual, whole bags of dicks or eat each dick one at a time? Is the bag like a clear plastic bag filled with dicks or are they sticking out of a brown paper bag like baguettes?

 

p.s. If you don't get this reference then you need to watch some Louis C.K. stand up right now.

CoachBP6

September 22nd, 2014 at 8:39 AM ^

I want to see fire, passion, and a hatred for losing.  Is that so much to ask?  This team has a lot of great character guys on it, someone needs to step up and lead and let the others know that this is not acceptable.  

BlueGoM

September 22nd, 2014 at 9:13 AM ^

at least it's over .500

swagger - yes, the 4, 4 loss seasons leading up to '97 were definitely swagger-less.  '97 the swagger was the key factor. '98 we forgot the swagger, and lost the first 2 games.

swagger.

wbpbrian

September 22nd, 2014 at 9:22 AM ^

I actually miss Lloyd. I feel if he changed his coaching style a bit, we could have been more successful. But the most imporatant thing that could have made us more competitive at the end would have been able to recruit more talent. Lloyd was an ok recruiter but, if he recruited more speed on his team in the mid 2000's I think we would have been more successful.

SirJack II

September 22nd, 2014 at 12:53 PM ^

How the hell is Hoke Carr? Carr sustained a winning, revered program year-in year-out. And when disaster hit (Horror plus Oregon) Carr guided the team back to a memorable season. Some of you people dumping on Carr sound like idiots.

steve sharik

September 22nd, 2014 at 9:56 AM ^

52-43 since Bo died

First 4 games after Bo's death:

  • 1 vs. 2 Ohio
  • USC in Rose Bowl
  • The Horror
  • Oregon (Belotti respectfully calling off dogs in 3rd Q with 32 pts. on board)

If we want to get back to Bo level, we need to have as a foundation:

  • mistake free football
  • refusing to accept anything less than greatness (a la Steve Jobs, a la Ghandi, etc.)

It's not about scheme, type of players, or philosophy of football.  There have been great teams and programs that differed along those lines.  Bobby Bowden was a meh coach at West Virginia and Florida State until he learned from Woody and Bo that the way to be excellent was to be mistake-free in every phase of the game.  That's the way Utah looked Saturday and, despite them having inferior talent and being inferior on a majority of plays in the game, dominated on the scoreboard b/c they have a mistake-free mentality.  

"Making plays" is not about wowing people.  It's about executing.  When you have an opportunity to make an open-field tackle, you do it.  When you have an opportunity to pick up a blitz, you do it.  When you have the opportunity to find the most open receiver, you do it.  It's not about one-handed catches and blow-up hits and heisman poses.  It's about achieving the successes that the coaches have put you in position to achieve on every play.  And regardless of your combine numbers or recruiting rankings, the guys who do that best on Saturdays are the guys we will win with.

People believe practice is about finding who should start, etc.  No. It's about preparing the team to execute on Saturday.  Every player on the squad should be prepared to carry out his assignment on Saturday.  Those who do it best in practice will get first dibs on Saturday.  But if they aren't getting it done on Saturday...NEXT!  

gustave ferbert

September 22nd, 2014 at 9:57 AM ^

It's all about the cult of personality.  Bo was the program.  Even after he retired, I don't think anything happened in that building without his blessing.  It happened after Bear Bryant died.  OSU struggled after Woody Hayes died.  It's a very real organizational phenomenon.  And we're not going to be good again until someone comes in and a) reestablishes that culture or b) b)  rebuilds the culture that the entire fan base would find palatable.

Tuebor

September 22nd, 2014 at 10:21 AM ^

This.  So much this.  The head coach can't be BFF with the players.  Freshmen year you should fear him. Sophmore year you should tolerate him.  Junior year you understand him.  Senior year you love him. 

 

This team needs more adversity in practice so once fecal matter hits the proverbial fan they don't cave mentally.  This team accepts losing far too easily.

steve sharik

September 22nd, 2014 at 3:33 PM ^

...and this may sound like BS, but I want to see Brady Hoke do it.

He's a good guy and he's my coach right now.  I'm not going to start thinking about potential replacements until we need one.

Hail-Storm

September 22nd, 2014 at 1:32 PM ^

I was planning to do a thread on this later this season to show the 100 games before Bo's death and the 100 games after his death.  The difference is stark.  A win percentage drop from ~77% to 55%. A record of 1-7 vs OSU and 2-6 (7 most likely by that game) against MSU vs 3-5 vs OSU and 6-2 vs MSU. Wierd that the turning point seems to be linked at that point for Michigan's struggles.

Voltron is Handsome

September 22nd, 2014 at 9:35 AM ^

Nice thread. I hope all the people who wanted Lloyd out realize this. Granted, I know he was on the brink of retiring anyway, but Lloyd was consistenly good and put good teams on the field almost every year. With the exception of 2011, this program has been average at best since Lloyd left.

Felix.M.Blue

September 22nd, 2014 at 9:52 AM ^

I wasn't one of the firecarr.com people but I didn't like him.

He had a really bad loss atleast once a year. Yes I know that's a far cry from what is going on now but he had some great teams and some good teams that still lost 3-4 games a year.

I don't think a Michigan team should lose 4 games in a year. Carr did that nearly half his career.

The PSU game last year was identical to the way Carr blew games. It was painful.

Huma

September 22nd, 2014 at 10:10 AM ^

Carr also won the B1G almost every other year and was in competition for the B1G championship every November.  I think we would all be happy with that performance right now. 

 

Also, the classic Carr loss was usually the first road game every year when the team would come out flat in the first half and get down by 2 scores.  Then they would battle back in the 4th quarter, only to come up just short at the end.  This is the opposite of what happened at PSU last year.

Tuebor

September 22nd, 2014 at 10:32 AM ^

81-23 in Big Ten play.  Every year were at 6-2 in the conference.  At the time I hated it but now I'd love to be that consistent. 

 

2011 was a special year because we had special players in Martin, RVB, Molk, etc.

2012 was a typical Carr season.  Loss to ND and other high profile OOC game. 6-2 in conference and a loss in a NYD bowl.

2013 was a disaster.  Bill Snyder and his juco warriors just put the cherry on top.

Since the announcement of PSU's sanctions they have a better overall record than we do.  2 more wins and 4 fewer losses.  Unbelieveable.

turd ferguson

September 22nd, 2014 at 9:38 AM ^

Just because these kinds of threads often turn into bizarre re-writings of history, here are some details on Carr:

 

Results (13 seasons):

  • 122-40 overall
  • 1 national title
  • 5 Big Ten titles
  • 19-8 vs. top 10 opponents
  • 6-7 vs. OSU
  • 10-3 vs. MSU
  • 5-4 vs. ND
  • no serious NCAA violations



Recruiting - average Rivals star rating:

  • 2002 - 10
  • 2003 - 1
  • 2004 - 3 (tied)
  • 2005 - 10 
  • 2006 - 5 (tied)
  • 2007 - 10



*I'm using the average player rank from Rivals, whose rankings apparently only go back to 2002.  (It's the recruiting at the end of his career that people get upset about anyway.)  I'm using average player rank rather than the Rivals class rank, because the Rivals class rank rewards bigger classes for being bigger, which effectively punishes coaches for keeping players in the program.