Tate to Colt McCoy comparison
Hello, I'm a First time/ long time (if sports-talk radio lingo applies to the blogging realm). I was intrigued by the mention made in the "Barwis effect" entry and early main page recruiting articles of the comparison of Colt McCoy and Tate Forcier. Although the original comparison was simply about size and stature, I couldnt help but thinking that if Tate becomes the caliber player that Coly McCoy is, we will be in pretty good shape. Upon the first thought, they both have the "pretty boy" type look, first names that could be nothing other than big-time quarterback's names, impressive H.S. stats and athletic abilities that turn eyes. But after a decent look and more in depth analysis, the similarities are few and far between. McCoy was a 3 star recruit, sought after as a passer into a Texas offense with Vince Young that was comparable to the Penn State of recent years, what I consider to be a Pro style/ spread hybrid. Here's what he looked like out of High School.
Ht: 6-foot-1
Wt: 180 lbs
Forty: 4.72 secs
Bench reps: 12
Vertical: 29 inches
Shuttle: 4.85 secs
GPA: 3.87
(courtesy of Rivals)
Now I highly doubt he grew 2 inches after high school, 'nuff said. He was redshirted as a true Freshman, then started as a RS Freshman pretty much by default (Vince Young left early and the other guy graduated.) Here are his first season numbers. Not bad at all.
Pass | Rush | |||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Season | Team | GP | Rating | Att | Comp | Pct | Yds | TD | INT | Att | Yds | TD |
2006 | Texas | 13 | 161.8 | 318 | 217 | 68.2 | 2570 | 29 | 7 | 68 | 170 | 2 |
Now an unnecessary review of Tate. (according to Rivals)
Ht: 6-foot-1
Wt: 184 lbs
Forty: 4.55 secs
Vertical: 35 inches
Shuttle: 4.41 secs
GPA: 3.3
Class: 2009
Now I can either look at this brief overview and say that Tate is faster, quicker and a more accurate passer (77% his junior year) compared to Colt McCoy, is going to be amazing, and will have incredible numbers and lead us to a 10-3 season and a bowl victory as Colt did his first season. Or we can separate the apples from the oranges and simple take it for what its worth, a note worthy comparison that only time will tell if it has any validity.
Thanks for the post and the comparison. Tate is the person that brought upon these Colt McCoy comparisons because, well, he compared himself to Colt and said he might even have a stronger arm than him.
Now, the only comparison that matters is this years QB production versus last years. I just hope to god both Tate and Denard can out perform the QB tandem of Threet and Sheridan. If not, this will be a very long year again.
Tate==pretty boy???
I've always thought that Tate looks an awful lot like Ron Howard, definitely NOT a "pretty boy".
I've seen Tate at a few parties, he's no Tom Brady but he's definitely not bad looking, no homo.
"no homo" was sixth grade. make a statement and live with it.
August 3rd, 2009 at 11:07 AM ^
You must be relatively new to the site.
*And this coming from someone who hardly qualifies as a seasoned veteran compared to others.
thought the same thing dude, Tate could be Richy Cunningham from happy days!
a highly rated recruit that is now qb at Mississippi...Once again, competition makes everyone better.
August 2nd, 2009 at 12:33 PM ^
Yeah - he beat out Jevan Snead. McCoy was a RS Freshman, and Snead was a true freshman. Lots of Texas fans were pissed because they felt the decision was based more on familiarity w/ the system than skill.
"first names that could be nothing other than big time quarterback's first name"
Tate's first name is Robert. I think Roberts can be any number of things.
And Colt McCoy's real first name is Daniel.
can't be QB's or he wouldn't have to go by Tate.....
I've seen an awful lot about Denard's speed, but what about his arm? These two guys seem pretty different from each other - how will the rest of the offense (a confused bunch of guys last year from all appearances) respond to two very different styles of play from their QB?
August 2nd, 2009 at 10:09 AM ^
I really think their skills complement rather than grate against each other. It is not like Tate can't run or Dennard can't pass, just that each has there own strengths. They both can run the same plays just the mix will be different. So the rest of the offense will be running the same plays from the same formations they did in practice.
I have seen instances where offenses had to completely switch gears because of a qb change and it wasn't very pretty. See tOSU last year before Pryor took over for good. I suspect that is part of the reason they had to decide on one or the other.
The biggest apples and oranges comparison is that Colt was playing for a team coming off 2 consecutive appearances in the BCS title game and UM was 3-9 last year. I think there is a good chance Tate will lead us to a 10 win season but I highly doubt it will be next year.
I had heard the comparison before but it seems after reading your post the main differences is them being young and small.
we woulda won the National Championship that year ;)
August 2nd, 2009 at 11:07 AM ^
I think a lot of people don't realize how fast Tate is, me being included.
If he truly is that much faster than Colt McCoy that's dangerous. A qb that fast could be a solid qb solely as a running threat, but when you factor in Tate's ability to throw accurately on the run and his decent/to above average throwing power it really takes it to another level.
For some reason I was under the impression that Tate was a throwing qb that could merely scramble out of the pocket if need be, not someone with 4.55 speed.
August 2nd, 2009 at 12:57 PM ^
I really don't think that there's any way in hell that he actually ran a 4.55. Those numbers on Rivals are estimates unless they have the "r" logo next to them, which indicates that they're from official scouting events. And they are often inflated.
Pat White ran an electronically timed 4.55 at the scouting combine, after 4 years of division 1 conditioning (mostly under Mike Barwis). No way that Tate can match that number.
forty times are the powder that make up the Kool Aid. What is real, what is fake? It's maddening.
August 2nd, 2009 at 10:38 PM ^
I'd say they're pretty much all fake.
August 2nd, 2009 at 11:32 AM ^
...is PARTICULARLY delicious this morning. While they certainly seem to have comparable physical tools, I would strongly caution against comparisons, especially as McCoy's freshman team was still loaded with talent (including the O-line) from the previous year's national championship team, as Kzoo pointed out.
Also, we have no idea what kind of mental tools/toughness/aggression he's going to display until we see him in action. Let the kid flourish on his own terms without holding him to an improbable comparison. We'll see how that comparison holds up starting September 5th.
August 2nd, 2009 at 11:33 AM ^
Tate was in his redshirt freshman year like McCoy was when he took over the starting job. True frosh vs. redshirt frosh for a QB is IMO a huge difference. And you're selling McCoy short, far from "not bad at all", his numbers were fantastic.
August 2nd, 2009 at 12:30 PM ^
Did Colt go to Austin early though? If not, he only had a 1/2 year more experience competing at the college level than Tate will have.
Tate's extra semester of practice may have more of an impact than people expect.
August 2nd, 2009 at 12:37 PM ^
Tate will have had 4 weeks of spring practive and 3 weeks of pre-season practice. McCoy, when he started, had 3 weeks of pre-season practice, practice throughout the entire season of his RS year, including bowl practices, and the ensuing 4 weeks of Spring practice. There is a sizeable difference.
Practice? We talking about practice?
that Tate will only win three Heisman Trophies?
I'm okay with that.
Colt was also a year older. Physiologically, that makes a difference.
Physiologically one year (when the one year is between 18-19 or 19 and 20) at that stage of life makes very little to no difference whatsoever. If you have taken any anatomy and physiology course before, please let me know what physiolocial changes generally occur in men between the ages of 19 and 20?
I took various a&p courses in my undergrad and throughout Med school obviously and was never made aware of any of these changes. Psychologically perhaps (in other words more mature and ready for the challange) but not physiologically.....sorry, no dice.
Also, I would point out that physiologically, nobody is different from anyone else. It's part of what makes us humans.
I study the physiology pretty much every day (when I can goad myself into reading more) and peoples physiology is peoples physiology.
Physically, however.....
All joo gots to do is look at some of the classmates/coworker/whatever and you'll probably notice there are significant differences physically.
e.g Heidi Klum vs. Your Grandma
August 2nd, 2009 at 12:01 PM ^
to not get creamed by a LB or safety is more key. Last season McGuffie was a good back and he had great speed, but he couldn't avoid the big hit and it runined his season, possibly his career. The concuses in one season is a lot.
Tate staying healthy all season and Denard getting the chance to learn and fill some spots will be very important for him and the team's success.
If they stay healthy, don't lose the games on their own and the defense is decent, this team will have a lot of success and surprise many.
August 2nd, 2009 at 12:11 PM ^
You are so right about Tate and Denard staying healthy. Both will be running the ball or scrambling a fair amount. Hopefully they will have the knack for avoiding the big hits. Tate would sacrifice his body in H.S. for a few extra yards. While it's commendable, the coaching staff needs limit that instinct.
Not to mention that Tate has already had a grade 3 concussion in high school (which I believe is the most severe).
Shit
So that's why his helmet seems so huge.
August 2nd, 2009 at 12:35 PM ^
is that Scripps Ranch (a Div II football team in Cal HS system) had a considerably tougher schedule his junior year (when he was 65% on pass completions, 3331 yrds, 23 Tds, 13 INTs) playing against some great California H.S. teams like Poway (Div. 1 12-0), Centennial Corona (Div 1 13-2 and st. title game loser), Mira Mesa (Div 1 8-4), Cathedral Catholic (10-2, Div III, Eastern Conf. champs), Oceanside (12-1, Div II champions)
Still, to me what is most interesting about Forcier are his sick YPC stats which (aside from his throwing accuracy) sort of leaps off the page:
10.1 ypc and 13 TDs in 2007(as a Jr.)
9.9 ypc and 6 TDs in 2008 (as a Sr.)
People rave about his throwing stats and stuff, but they overlook that the kid's wearing racing wheels .
Tate is The White Jesus. It's sacrilege to compare him to any mere mortal.
So is Tebow a non-white Jesus? I'm so confused.
Tebow has been dethroned, Forcier is the new WJ.
Tebow has no race, he is a deity.
McGuffie had the "extreme athlete" mentality; he seemed to think that he could run into people with utter inpugnity. I can't imagine Forcier thinking the same thing, running as upright as McGuffie, trying any leaps or somersaults, or seeking contact at full speed.
Enjoyed it.
My only concern with Tate is health. McCoy survived is first season, maybe Tate will too. Also, McCoy went into a well established program, and that red shirt year had to have been helpful. So, they both walked into fairly different circumstances.* But, content is content and this was above the water line.
*see previous post about lb or safety type breaking Tate's clavicle.
I'm most interested to see if Tate can pull off the last second comeback against OSU that Colt can...
where do you board at? how long have you been boarding??
Am i drinking the Kool-Aid? I envision Tate's stats this year to be almost as good to Colt's were (less pass yards and TDs, but more rush yards and TDs).
Colt (2006):
Comp% Yds TD INT Rush Yds Rush TD
68.2 2570 29 7 170 2
Tate (2009):
Comp% Yds TD INT Rush Yds Rush TD
65 2000 20 8 500 7
Am i totally off-base here?
August 3rd, 2009 at 12:42 AM ^
I would say no because colt was taking all of the snaps. I see tate taking 80-85% at most so he won't have as good of totals but i could see the averages being similar
I don't care who can throw better, who is faster or who starts for that matter... JUST WIN BABY! WIN!!!!!
You're kidding, right? Last time I checked Tate hadn't taken a college snap.
I know he had a boffo spring game against our #2 defense and all, and has looked good in 7 on 7 drills, but let's not compare him to anyone just yet until he proves something on the field.
Did you read the last sentence of the OP?
"Or we can separate the apples from the oranges and simple take it for what its worth, a note worthy comparison that only time will tell if it has any validity."
I think he agrees with you. But he adds the idea: IF Colt McCoy's talent level is any indication of Tate's ceiling, this could be an interesting and exciting 4 years.
August 3rd, 2009 at 10:50 AM ^
I agree with your point that if Tate Forcier becomes the caliber of play as Colt McCoy, a Heisman caliber sets the record for completion percentage qb, then M will be in great shape.
John Madden also agrees.
the team that scores the most points usually wins the game
and the best way to earn points is by scoring touchdowns
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