The only explanation I can come up with to explain their incompetence is that they saw the shin down and thought "oh the call on the field was wrong". Which means they thought Thorne didn't lose control of the ball until after that point (or didn't bother checking this fact). Which is fucking ridiculous because any idiot whose job is to review all aspects of a play would look for not just the shin but did he still have possession at that point? They just assumed the latter part of the equation was true, which is ridiculous not just because there was no clear view of control with the fucking ball (hence: call should stand), but because what we could see of the ball seemed to show Thorne losing control as soon as his arm got raked, before his shin ever touched the ground.

The referee has sole responsibility for watching a quarterback's response to pressure, contact and line play surrounding him when he's behind the LOS on a pass play. The center official is watching other things in that situation.

The referee had no problem on the play in question making a TD call on the recovered fumble by Hutchinson in the end zone. Ojabo rolled Thorne across his body on the takedown, the ball came loose and Hutchinson fell on it.

There is only one limited opportunity for Thorne to be down by contact on that play because he never actually touches the ground when tackled. His fall is cushioned by Ojabo who is underneath him as the play unfolds. The ball is out at that point. So you have to search diligently in the video replay of the action to find an opportunity for Thorne's shin or any other body part to graze the ground in order to reverse the call over what visually ensued. And there is no indisputable evidence to support that reversal.

You obviously have to play through the call. But taking 7 points off the board means that play was the difference in the outcome, everything else being the same. Sparty just got credit for what they otherwise did on the field and came out in front as a result.

We say about winning:  You have to make plays in order to win, especially rivalry games on the road. Well, that was the biggest play of that game. And it got erased without good cause, especially in light of how replay was used to justify not reversing other made calls that were allowed to stand that impacted time and opportunity results

Yeah, that definitely didn't seem like a choke hold as much as trying to stop a guy from getting extra yards on a drive where a FD ends the game.  I mean if there's a better angle that shows a more violent hold then absolutely suspend him but it didn't really seem particularly egregious or atypical.

I sort of agree that it did not look much different from a normal football play, but I do remember watching live and seeing Walker III clutching his throat like he had just been choked out. I think he even came out for a play because of it.

So it seems with those two pieces of info together... yeah he got put in a choke hold.

Yeah I didn't see a choke either.  He was being pretty aggressive in cradling him, and there's no doubt some of that was because of who Walker is.  But he appears to let go when the whistle is blown.  And again, def didn't see a choke. 

There are a lot of ways a runner can get his throat hit unintentionally during a play, so I don't think Walker's reaction necessarily means Morris intentionally choked him.

And I realize I'm being a biased homer by giving the benefit of the doubt, but I don't see anything.  None of the refs saw anything.  The broadcast didn't see anything.  Are people just assuming based on Walkers reaction?

They've been doing it all year!  Six DT's have seen (what can be legitimately called) extensive playing time.  It's worked out for the most part, but MSU exploited it quite well.

appears you haven't paid attention this entire season. 

we are playing bigger guys and trying to keep them fresh. 

obviously it was good coaching states part to see the issues we have had against other teams and catch us several times in switches. 

that we kept doing it all game is what is bizarre 

The offense should retain possession on a fumble unless the defense recovers it (for an actual change of possession). If the offense fumbles and the ball goes out over a sideline the defense doesn't get the ball. Why would the end zone be different?

i guess i'm in an agreeable mood today, because i agree wholeheartedly.

If you run to the 10 yard line and fumble it out of bounds, you get it back at the 10.

If you run to the 5 yard line and fumble it out of bounds, you get it back at the 5.

If you run to the 1 yard line and fumble it out of bounds, you get it back at the 1.

If you run it all the way to the endzone and fumble it out of bounds, it's a turnover? What? Why would you not give it back to them at the 1 yard line or something? Or the 5 or whatever. But a turnover? Nonsense

There could be some sort of rule like "you can't fumble the ball forward with progress", which would mean that in the event of recovery or ball out of bounds, the ball is considered to be "possessed" by the original team at the point of the fumble. I'm pretty sure the NFL has implemented something like this this year. 

Why should the defense get the ball back in that case? They didn't recover the fumble. In all other spots on the field except the endzones, if the ball is fumbled out of bounds the offense maintains possession. 

I mean, the only way this theory makes sense is if the refs are getting paid directly or indirectly by the TV networks to fix games so that they are competitive. Which seems like a stretch, to say the least.

Not to mention, my understanding is that ratings/viewership numbers do not take into account how long viewers were watching a particular program/game. Ads are paid for before the game even airs. It makes zero sense that refs would have an incentive to make games closer than they should be in terms of af revenue

Very similar.  I am no Harbaugh apologist and think his coaching has cost UM a bunch of close games where they had superior talent or were in control.  In his entire tenure, I believe just two games were absolutely, blatantly corrupt and called 1 way.

OSU 2016 and MSU 2021.  "Poor" officiating kept the respective UM opponent in the games long enough for random variance or mistakes to allow the game to swing the other way.

UM was in control of both games and win both by 2 or more scores if not for officiating messing with the flow, momentum, and score of the games.

I would still call 2016 worse, OSU was called for one penalty in that game, a false start, UM did not get a single judgement call in that game despite OSU committing multiple PI's and holds that were rather obvious and had 2-3 ones that were called on them that were straight ridiculous on the other side. Not to mention the element of officials who were straight OSU slappies who had been barred from doing the game in previous years for a reason. Another one of the officials who did the game who is now retired also straight admitted last year he had a bias against certain coaches, Harbaugh being one of them. Everyone talks about the spot but that was the least of that games issues.

With that said the non call on Johnson and straight taking points off the board had a huge impact so it really isn't that far off in terms of direct scoreboard impact.

I get why people are making the comparison, but 2016 was way worse. 

MSU got called for roughly equal penalties in this game as UM. They were at least calling some of the blatant holding on MSU, even if it wasn't really enough. This MSU game was affected by refs only on borderline and benefit-of-the-doubt stuff (MSU got them all; nothing for Michigan).

In contrast, iirc, OSU didn't get a single penalty called on them in 2016. Despite some of the most egregious non-calls you will ever see. The OSU game was blatant favoritism, in fact "the spot" wasn't even in the top 10 worst calls/noncalls of the day (but remembered simply because it was the most consequential and was probably wrong, though there was no definitive replay of it because spots that are close are almost impossible to overturn in that situation).

I would compare them simply because UM should have put that 2016 game away in cooler pooper stadium. Yes, the refs were literally fondling OSU players, but we had a dinged up qb. It was a near Woodson like performance form Peppers that kept us in it. Extension of drives *by the refs* in the 4th quarter are what put that one into OT. We score on the goal line fumble or Peppers gets a pick six - game over. The Spot is a coinflip (and my way of telling any Buckeye fan I meet that I hate them). "Pleased to meet you, JT was short".

Mentally, I was not going to let last Saturday be a repeat of 2016. In 2016, I shut down for the rest of the weekend, checking the score in denial. Unhealthy behavior. 2021 I put on my Halloween costume and had a great evening. I only really thought about the players (especially Hutchinson).

In an objective look at the 2021 MSU game, I still think UM should have put it away, had the chance to, and the costly mistakes are what did it more than the reprehensible officiating. 

All that said, Warde Manual is a complete cuck for allowing this to continue to happen under Harbaugh - whether it is simply because Jim is unliked or UM is just the team to screw on the betting lines.

If Jim is no longer allowed to say shit in the post game presser like after 2016 OSU, the AD should be stepping up such that his program and players are getting a fair shake in the games.

Warde is just a B1G sycophant happy to collect the league checks and unwilling to rock the boat for his school.  There should be a ton of noise around this latest robbery and it should be coming from the UM AD - especially considering UM is still remains one of the main draws and brands in the B1G for major revenue sports.