Oh God What If Boston College Follows You Around Like You Just Broke Up With It And It Wants To Be Friends Comment Count

Brian

10/7/2017 – Michigan 10, Michigan State 14 – 4-1, 1-1 Big Ten

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a metaphor for somethin' [Bryan Fuller]

Don Brown is in one of those Progressive commercials where everything gradually turns white, except in his case everything is gradually turning back into Boston College. Someone walks by with a bunch of hockey sticks. Bill Simmons is on the television again. He swears he overhears a conversation about pahking the cah. Maroon filters into his peripheral vision.

On Wednesday at three fifteen PM there is going to be a knock on the door. Steve Addazio is going to walk in and sit down. Brown will summon all his willpower not to jam the nearest pen through his own eyesocket, to claw the power of sight from his face and evaporate from the world of men.

Jay Harbaugh, seated, will wonder if the slight twitch under Brown's eye means anything or if it's just something that happens to men of a certain age. He will not say something about "guys being dudes," and will never know how close he—how close all of us—came to Total Mustache Annihilation. He will tell Brown about Terrace House, a Japanese version of the Real World where everyone is very nice and considerate of each other's feelings.

Thus disabused of the Addazio specter, Brown will resume destroying all that opposes him until the inevitable knife in the back. He tries not to think of Sisyphus, and fails.

----------------------------------------------------

Michigan's main problem on offense is that they are bad at it. This is not a good problem. "Our right tackle sucks" is something you might be able to address. "Almost everyone is not good at football right now" leads to situations like Saturday. I brought up the Law Of Large Percentages Multiplied A Lot, which is something I just made up right now, in a brief twitter conversation with a reporter who wanted people to know one weird thing about Oklahoma football:

That is a weird thing, but it's not as weird as it sounds. If OU was a 10 point favorite in eight games they'd get through unscathed just 12% of the time*. If they were a 14 point favorite they get up to 27%. You have to get up to 17.5—a 93.7% shot at victory!—before Hypothetical OU even hits 50%. The Law Of Large Percentages Multiplied A Lot is that even big ones fall off faster than you'd think.

Michigan's offense has 6-7-8 guys who have to execute on any particular play for it to be a success, and... let's just say many of them are not three-score favorites to do so on any particular play. They are an example of The Law Of Large Percentages And Some Quite Small Ones Multiplied A Lot. The results can be seen in the box score, or the haunted look on the face of a man who replaced ten starters and still has the #3 defense in the country.

And so today the Must brigade is out. "Must" is the worst word in sportswriting for a lot of reasons. Foremost among them is that whatever follows "must" is something so blindingly obvious Marcelo Balboa is probably talking about a replay of it as we speak. He must catch that ball. He must YES WE KNOW I HAVE EYES, AT LEAST FOR NOW, I'M CONSIDERING A CHANGE IN THAT DEPARTMENT, THANK YOU.

I spent most of the weekend trying and failing to get this column done because I couldn't wade into any commentary on the game that wasn't furious and over the top, and immediately made me want to go do something else. Weird shit happens in college football, especially when you're playing your backup QB, and there's a brief second-half monsoon, and on top of that you turn the ball over five times. Various dirt stupid people are now flogging a "Harbaugh is 1-4 versus rivals" thing as if that encapsulates the whole of his tenure, or even his career. Yeah, Michigan had the dumb thing happen on the punt and lost by a literal inch in Columbus last year. If you're ascribing that to something other than chance I cannot help you.

Whatever Harbaugh MUST do he's probably already doing. He has a track record, and he'll either follow that up with more of the same or not. We're oddly locked in: few coaches trying to establish themselves at a new school come with the pedigree that Harbaugh does, so he'll get a ton of time and a bunch of rope and we'll see where it goes. It'll probably go really well once they aren't carrying the baggage of someone else's screwups on top of their base rate.

But I mean, go ahead and yell about how unacceptable everything is, I guess. We are dying to hear about your feelings.

*[This is based on this site's conversion of point spreads to winners.]

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blanket [Fuller]

Known Friends And Trusted Agents Of The Week

-2535ac8789d1b499[1]you're the man now, dog

#1 Mo Hurst. Hurst got to play a lot of three tech this week and went from making good plays that someone else scoops up the glory on to wrecking the interior of the opposition offense himself. The fourth down stop stands out, because Hurst may have induced the fumble from a nervous center; Hurst whooped him anyway and the play was doomed either way.

#2 Lavert Hill. Hill's three PBUs were all excellent plays, and he was in the hip pocket of whoever his assignment was for the duration. MSU had... one open receiver? Maybe two? Lewerke averaged 4.3 YPA. Hill played the largest part in that.

#3 Brad Robbins. Averaged 43 yards a punt in often-difficult conditions and mindblasted the MSU returner on the muff; gave up just ten total return yards on seven attempts.

Honorable mention: Most of the rest of the defense. And... Grant Perry, I guess?

KFaTAotW Standings.

8: Devin Bush (#1 Florida, T2 Cincinnati, T2 Air Force, #1 Purdue)
5: Chase Winovich(#1 Air Force, #2a Purdue) 
3: Mason Cole (#1, Cincinnati), Ty Isaac (#2, Florida, #3 Cincinnati), Mo Hurst (#1 MSU)   
2: Quinn Nordin (#3 Florida, #3 Air Force), John O'Korn (#2 Purdue), Lavert Hill (#2 MSU)
1: Khaleke Hudson (T2 Cincinnati), Tyree Kinnel (T2 Cincinnati), Mike McCray(T2 Air Force), Sean McKeon(T3 Purdue), Zach Gentry (T3 Purdue), Brad Robbins(#3 MSU).

Who's Got It Better Than Us Of The Week

MSU's punt returner dorfs on a bomb by Robbins, muffing it back to the two and setting up a short field that Michigan would use to get their touchdown.

Honorable mention: The first drive was pretty all right until the back-to-back fades.

imageMARCUS HALL EPIC DOUBLE BIRD OF THE WEEK.

Eddie McDoom drops a pass that would have taken Michigan down to the 25 with 13 seconds left.

Honorable mention: Pick a turnover but especially the first two, as they were key in Michigan's deficit by the time the rain arrived. Lewerke scrapes out a late first down because he lands on Michigan players. Michigan gets a touchdown wiped off the board on a Higdon holding call. Most offensive plays.

[After THE JUMP: what would you say you do here]

OFFENSE

Under pressure. I am down with Tim Drevno glaring at this juncture. He got dealt a tough hand. So far he's blown it. He comes in late and takes a flier on Ulizio; Ulizio just got yanked for Bushell-Beatty. More egregious was Michigan's OL recruiting the year after. Despite an obvious, crying need for tackles Michigan took zero—zero zero zero.

They inherited Erik Swenson and dicked around with him until January despite the fact they knew they had no desire to take him. Then they got blindsided by Devery Hamilton's Stanford flip. Replacing those guys was... nobody. Michigan added Stephen Spanellis, who's 100% a guard, and has since played Ben Bredeson exclusively at guard despite the fact that he was supposedly neck and neck with Newsome for the LT job last year. So instead of two redshirt freshman tackle bullets Michigan has nothing but Ulizio and Brady Hoke's leftovers.

Michigan has one highly touted tackle in Drevno's tenure, freshman Chuck Filiaga. Michigan had to know about the looming hole there and they've utterly failed to address it. That goes back to Drevno. Add in the disjointed OL in year three and it might be FCS head coaching time.

Settle in. Bizarrely, in the midst of the game Chris Fowler told the world that Wilton Speight had cracked vertebrae and was out for the season. Tom Van Haaren followed this up with an article:

Wilton Speight has three broken vertebrae in his back, a source confirmed to ESPN.

ESPN's Chris Fowler first reported Speight's injury at the top of ABC's Saturday night broadcast of the Michigan State-Michigan game saying: "Wilton Speight ... he is out, probably for the season. He has three broken vertebrae, he told us." ...

While it's likely that Speight will be out for the remainder of the season, he will be reevaluated six to eight weeks after the injury occurred.

For unnecessary confirmation, a reader forwarded this David Turnley photo along from instasnapbook:

P_2lE6iC

I got a report that Speight told someone not affiliated with ESPN he could be back in four weeks. I'd assume that the longer projection is more likely to be correct. It boggles the mind that fractured freakin' vertebrae aren't obviously season-ending. Anyway, don't expect Speight back any time soon.

O'Korn couldn't see anything. I don't know how much of O'Korn's tendency to stand in the pocket for four or five seconds before attempting to scramble out was on him and how much was on the wide receivers not getting open. That was the main theme in the passing offense, though: reasonable protection that eventually breaks down on the right side; O'Korn hangs onto the ball way too long. A couple of sacks were four or five seconds in the pocket, and O'Korn has to know that he's not likely to get that much time.

Break glass in case of—*BREAKS GLASS*. If Speight's out for the year and O'Korn continues to struggle the calls for Brandon Peters will be incessant, and I'll be amongst them. Without a radically improved offense this team is topping out as a Citrus Bowl outfit. Time to see what Peters brings to the table.

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THIS IS THE WRONG PERSON TO FADE AT [Upchurch]

I have several problems with you people. Michigan's first drive was going swimmingly until two routes in the corner of the endzone yielded zilch. One was a wheel route to McKeon that was well covered, and I guess that's understandable. The second was a fade to McDoom. Michigan's policy of exclusively throwing fades at people a foot shorter than Zach Gentry is driving me crazy. Fades aren't great in general. Fades at a 5'11" guy who isn't Jeremy Gallon make me want to fade into Bolivia.

At least the Hail Mary went at the right guy:

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[Upchurch]

So we've got that going for us.

Zero QB run game. Other game calling complaints: Michigan had zero QB run game for O'Korn. I'm not asking Michigan to go Denard with him, but at no point did Michigan make MSU even think about O'Korn as a runner. Very frustrating when MSU gets half their rushing yards from Lewerke, and even more so when the second half cried out for various ways to make yards without throwing the ball.

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These guys are too close together [Upchurch]

Next to zero deep shots. I saved the worst for last, but I'm not sure exactly who this is on: Michigan basically did not test the Michigan State safeties in pass coverage. One attempted corner route to Gentry was broken up after it looked like DPJ ran the wrong route, drawing additional defenders—or at least not delaying them. Michigan didn't go after them again, basically for the whole game. What deep shots did exist were on the sideline against the corners; M utterly failed to heed the lessons of the Big 12.

Crawford. He had a play on a deep ball and did not make it, adding to his litany of missed opportunities. Have to wonder if Black could have made a difference here. The continued absence of Oliver Marin and Nico Collins means they're all but certain to redshirt; I guess I can't complain about that because Freshman Wide Receivers Suck, but I am a little disappointed one of them hasn't broken through a battered screen door.

Yes, Brady Hoke is still partially responsible for this. The only Hoke players who are playing more than a very minor role are the two fullbacks, Ty Isaac, Mason Cole, and Patrick Kugler. The quarterback depth chart reads...

  • Generic Three Star
  • Houston Transfer
  • Redshirt Freshman

...because of Hoke.

Michigan's unusual wait to pick up Harbaugh is another contributing factor. Harbaugh brought in a bunch of dudes from the NFL who were picking up college recruiting cold and had to scramble to add a number of guys in three weeks. They added more contributors in that time than Hoke did for the entire cycle. (Wheatley, Gentry, Higdon, and Perry vs Kinnel, Newsome, and I guess Ulizio.) It was still not enough to rescue a tiny class.

DEFENSE

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crunch [Upchurch]

So that's how you stay in contact with five turnovers. The preview projected ten MSU points plus whatever the offense handed them, and this turned out to be pessimistic. MSU had 8 three-and-outs, one of them a four-and-out turnover on downs. They gave up a short-field TD drive based mostly on QB scrambles; they gave up an actual long TD drive that was about half a contested downfield deep ball that was a PBU... and also a catch. A selection of we-saved-this plays got them the rest of the way. One 50 yard run was about the only other thing Michigan gave up until the four-minute drill that got a couple first downs, the second incredibly fortunate.

The second-half D was helped out by the weather and MSU's (very, very correct) conservative approach, but you really can't ask for more. Michigan should have ground MSU down in a field position game for the entirety of the second half and won, but O'Korn's interceptions prevented that.

More Mone. Bryan Mone got his most extensive playing time of the year. He—or another DT—was almost always in there on any manball-ish snap. Mone did well, plowing various dudes back, and that's reassuring for future manball outings and Mone's future in general.

Bush relatively quiet. Devin Bush made a number of tackles at or near the line of scrimmage but didn't have any dramatic backfield plunderings. For the first time this year he was held off the stat sheet aside from tackles. It'll be interesting to see whether that was tactical from either team, a manball effect, or just one of those things.

FWIW, the PF he got was total crap; even if he deserved it he'd just been punched in the face and at worst it should have been offsetting. The offsides at the end was painful. I mean, sort of. It would have been more painful if it seemed like the offense could score in the next sixty years.

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no sir [Fuller]

Lavert Hill headed towards excellent. Hill had three PBUs, each of them excellent. The most excellent may have been a zone snap where he was in cover two and fell off the short route, breaking up a 15-ish yard throw that otherwise would have been a first down chunk. He had another on a deep corner route on which he was in the WR's hip pocket and provided zero window.

There were a few open MSU receivers short in zone stuff and one a bit deeper—he dropped it. Other than that, nothing was open. Brandon Watson kinda sorta got beat on a ball he got his hand on; that's the second time in two weeks that's happened to a Michigan CB. Makes you wonder why Michigan isn't trying to get similar chunks when nothing else is working.

No sacks, barely. Lewerke was dragged down fractionally behind the line of scrimmage a couple times but the official box score had those as zero yard runs, so Rashan Gary did not get credit for a sack when he flung down Lewerke with one hand.

SPECIAL TEAMS

Got one? Probably. Given the trajectory of one MSU punt and Jared Wangler going nuts afterwards I think Michigan got their first punt block of the year. Unfortunately it was one of those that goes 22 yards instead of –22 yards, but that's life, especially in this game.

Hartbarger was seemingly uncomfortable on a couple more, with some uncharacteristically short punts.

Never return kickoffs. That is all.

MISCELLANEOUS

The ministry of silly runs. Chris Evans had occasion to do this in a football game:

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[Upchurch]

Football is weird.

HERE

Best And Worst:

But this game felt like 2001, or 1990, or even 2015, games where Michigan State was more lucky than good. That doesn't mean MSU didn't play well enough to win, only that these weren't dominant wins by superior teams like (sadly) they were against Hoke's and RR's teams. MSU needed 5 turnovers (and none of their own), a backup QB, a torrential downpour, and a QB being stopped short after a fumbled snap yet sliding on his falling center's leg to barely hold on against Michigan, and while that's usually how underdogs win games, it doesn't point toward sustained dominance in this series by the Spartans.

Bill Connelly pointed this out in his Five Factors post this weekend: MSU had a turnover margin of +4.8 above their national average, which works out to about 24 points of "bad luck" by Michigan. Michigan lost such a game by 4 points, and had a chance on the last play to still pull it out. It always sucks to be the team that has the luck go against it, but this loss still feels different. MSU tried to give this game away, and they nearly did with poor clock management and even poorer self control. This loss, as bad as it is in the moment, feels like 2015, a stumble but not a fall. I don't put too much stock into tides or narratives, but this rivalry is starting to feel like it did during most of my youth, where MSU wins were notable because of their weirdness and not their dominance. And I think the other half of that equation, the scarcity of Spartan victories, will follow soon as well.

You can also keep up with Michigan alums playing in Japan:

Devin Gardner led the Nojima Rise to another high scoring victory, this time besting the Lixil Deers 38-35 at Amino Vital Field.

Mario Ojemudia recorded a sack on the opening series of the game for Nojuma. Starting from their own 42 after the subsequent punt, Gardner drove the Rise down to the Deer 11 yard line, and a field goal made it 3-0.

ELSEWHERE

Nope!

Comments

dragonchild

October 9th, 2017 at 2:33 PM ^

Jake effin' Rudock.  It was only two seasons ago FFS people.  Give Harbaugh a QB that can kick bad habits and he'll make an NFL player out of an Iowa cast-off.  Rudock is all the proof we need that Harbaugh can coach a QB if he's at all coachable.  But he couldn't fix Tavita Pritchard or T.C. Ostrander because they were bad QBs he inherited.  I mean he tried, and went way farther with them than possibly anyone else could, but the year 3 jump at Stanford was with Andrew Luck and not even Harbaugh will find a guy like that every year.

When he came in the QB situation was a complete disaster and although this is year 3, bear in mind he had no meaningful time to recruit in year 1.  So the oldest Harbaugh QB we have is a redshirt freshman, and it's dangerous to assume he's a sure thing (Harbaugh himself hasn't recruited QBs like that was the case), and in front of him it's a bunch of Pritchards and Ostranders.

I mean, it's hard to find QBs that can do what Harbaugh asks of them, but Harbaugh is second to none at findings those guys, but even when he hits it takes time.  So for now we're stuck with experienced QBs Harbaugh frantically collected but unfortunately have stopped learning, and way-too-young Harbaugh recruits who may or may not pan out.

But the idea that our QB coach is inadequate at coaching QBs is absurd.  We've even seen what Speight can do when he remembers his training, but it doesn't stick.

MileHighWolverine

October 9th, 2017 at 2:47 PM ^

counter to your counter - maybe he's asking them to do too much? I think Luck spoiled him into thinking he can run a complicated offense in college when the evidence to date seems to be....nope! There are simpler offenses that work that he could run until we get the types and amounts of players he needs for his ideal offense. 

dragonchild

October 9th, 2017 at 3:13 PM ^

My first three words were "Jake effin' Rudock" who learned Harbaugh's offense AT MICHIGAN in far less time than Speight or O'Korn, and you're asking if Harbaugh's judgment is still muddled over a QB he hasn't coached in something like 7 years?

Not to mention, how many gimmick offenses does our own defense have to crush into bloody heaps until people understand that they're not sustainable?  Do we want to go back to the mess Borges made of the 2013 O-line?

MileHighWolverine

October 9th, 2017 at 3:25 PM ^

Well, both JR and AL are extremelty intelligent guys. The types you don't see come around very often - how many QBs could have been an architects or a doctor?

You're not willing to entertain the fact that our offense might be too difficult to grasp for most college players?

Or are we supposed to wait another 3 years for all of his recruits to be seniors to see how it works out? I'd give him that time but man, it's going to be very frustrating to see younger teams win NCs while we wait for ours to mature. 

dragonchild

October 9th, 2017 at 5:15 PM ^

But we knew that on literally Day One.  Heck, we knew it before he was hired.  He eventually finds the guys who can do it but until those guys are ready, it's been a given the number of guys he had and could find that could run his offense was anywhere between all of them or none of them.  We've had. . . one.  Rather unlucky, but all he could do was optimize his chances.  Lord knows he's tried to work with what he's got.

You've hit on what I'm getting at.  It IS going to be a frustrating slog.  That's not saying mistakes weren't made.  If anything, it's a good question to ask, how the coaches allowed what was a bad situation become one that's going to take yet more time to fix. . . but it IS going to take time to fix.  That's kind of why I'm rather upset, but honestly, if this could've been fixed quickly, well, that's what the bye week should've done.  But they didn't mess up the bye week; they just knew damn well the bye week wasn't enough time for the kinds of problems we got.

dragonchild

October 9th, 2017 at 7:56 PM ^

So what's your solution for now?  Because otherwise you're just bitching to bitch.

They effed up.  That's fair to say.  But it is, for now, an irreversible mistake.  So I'm telling everyone to hold onto their butts for the rest of the season and everyone's screaming like playtime's over at preschool.

The offense is going to be ass for the rest of the season.  Accept it or, well, don't.

wolverine1987

October 9th, 2017 at 12:34 PM ^

In all the "must," "unacceptable," "disgrace," blah blah blah chatter there is one truth: We have Harbaugh as long as he wants to be here and nothing will change that. Why? Because he is the best possible coach we could have hired then and can hire in future. No one exists other than Saban or Meyer that is a better college coach than JH. 2 guys, maybe 3 with Dabo. We have an excellent coach, so strap in and enjoy it, and if that hypothetically limits us, so goddam be it. I'll take it. 

BursleyBaitsBus

October 9th, 2017 at 1:49 PM ^

Keep telling yourself that. 

Meyer, Saban, Petersen, Fisher, Dantonio, Swinney and hell throw Franklin in there if he beats us this year are all just as accomplished (actually more accomplished at this point) 

 

Harbaugh is not a top 5 coach when compared to those guys. Top 10 sure. 

wolverine1987

October 9th, 2017 at 2:56 PM ^

In what world does Franklin and Peterson have more success than Harbaugh. None, and what's more, they aren't even CLOSE. That is an objective fact. Harbaugh is most definitively in the top five, mix them around as you like. 

But, even if what you say is true and he's top ten, that 100% validates the point I made. We can't hire a better coach, that's the truth. 

 

funkywolve

October 9th, 2017 at 3:33 PM ^

Harbaugh's success in the pros is damn good but if we're just comparing resume's for coaching in college, I'm not sure Harbaugh's resume is better than Franklin and Petersen.

Petersen and Franklin have both won conference titles in college.  Harbaugh has never won a conference title at a Division 1 school.  

Petersen took a nothing Boise St program and turned it into arguably the best non-P5 program in the country.  Now it looks like he's well on his way to having Washington as a consistent Top 10, Top 5 team.  In his third year at Washington he took a lackluster UW program to the playoffs.

Franklin had almost unprecented success Vandy and has taken a PSU program that was reeling from NCAA sanctions to the Big Title last year, and now has undefeated half way through the season.

Harbaugh's a great coach but I think some people act like he's the second coming of the messiah.  There are plenty of other good coaches across the country.

 

jmblue

October 9th, 2017 at 4:05 PM ^

People are overly fixated on the conference title thing.  The difference between us winning the league and PSU winning last year was a matter of literal inches (the 4th down at OSU).  Not to mention that PSU's win over OSU was also really fluky (two blocked kicks in the fourth quarter).

 

CompleteLunacy

October 9th, 2017 at 6:30 PM ^

Patiently waiting for Michigan to get it's lucky fucking break. Any time now, universe. Any time.

Seriously though. What god did we piss off to deserve this shit luck? Starting to feel like our program has been cursed since Bo left, the same way the Lions are cursed into finding fun and imaginative new ways to lose football games. 

Harbaugh has turned things around...and gotten some of the worst luck I've ever seen. MSU two years ago. The OSU ref debacle last year and final spot (on a play that was dead to rights, to boot). The voodoo at Iowa last year - which naturally Pedo-state U managed to escape this year  Florida state wins on a kickoff return touchdown from a freshman who should have just taken a knee on the kickoff.  Even this past Saturday, as bad as the offense was (and M certainly earned their loss)...how much effing luck did MSU get? From the monsoon gift (always was going to favor the team winning at the time) to their fumble recoveries, QB drops the ball picks it up and gets stopped short only to fall on his own player and YAY FIRST DOWN!, the fumbles they had that went right to their guys, and that one INT that hit the guy's arm and bounced right to him. It's just....¯\_(ツ)_/¯wtf can you do. Sometimes literally every single bounce goes against you.

Like I said, any time, universe. Any time.

TdK71

October 9th, 2017 at 12:35 PM ^

Either Hamilton or Drevno were on the sideline during the monsoon, but I'd sure like to know why we wre attempting to pass the football in those conditions... I'm very surprised that Harbaugh didn't override those passing playcalls....

 

stephenrjking

October 9th, 2017 at 12:51 PM ^

The why is pretty obvious: If you only run, MSU LBs will roll downhill and stuff it. What's the phrase? "Lighting a down on fire" is a term that was used this week, and I think there was some truth to it. The offensive coaches felt that they needed to execute passes to put a drive together, because that was the only way to take advantage of the LBs.

It's certainly reasonable to suggest that there were other ways to balance the playcalling given the conditions, but if Michigan just decided to run every down, they weren't going to drive the distance needed to score a TD. 

The problem is the line, not the playcalls. The one thing that could make a real difference in a situation like this is to have a monster offensive line. An offensive line that can line up and push the defenders off the ball consistently. With that, Michigan can call 80% runs and succeed, using the 20% to take advantage of huge space left because defenses have to commit extra guys to stop the run. The playcalls are a lot easier and look a lot better with a good OL.

We don't have one yet. This, as much as anything, is the area that scrutiny must be focused on. Youth is an issue and Harbaugh has already shuffled responsibilities to work on this, so it's not unreasonable to expect challenges that will improve with time; however, if the trajectory is bad at the end of the season, more shuffling should be expected. 

Fix the line and the playcalling isn't a challenge anymore. 

corundum

October 9th, 2017 at 2:46 PM ^

Because they bring in OL recruits every year and develop them for years before they see the field whereas we don't take a single OT in a recruiting class and under-recruit the positions the previous three years before that. The Newsome injury was also unfortunate along with Bosch transferring and the LTT thing.

funkywolve

October 9th, 2017 at 8:27 PM ^

Part of the reason is it's an established program.  That's a huge part of the success.  They aren't playing underclassmen because they have gaping holes in recruiting or a bunch of guys who didn't pan out.  If an underclassmen is playing on their oline, it's because the underclassman is damn good.

Rader71 almost made a good point in the last week.  It becomes a mentality for that group which is passed down to younger players.  UM's oline has been average to shit for 5-6 years.  Who are the underclassmen learning from?  The upperclassmen who aren't that good.

AJDrain

October 9th, 2017 at 12:35 PM ^

Glad that Brian pointed this out...

Peters needs to start immediately. Rewatching the game film yesterday, O'Korn was dreadful. He made a few nice throws but he made the offensive line look worse than it was. Stood in the pocket way too long on numerous occasions, bailed and scrambled when it wasn't even collapsing. He had as Brian put it, zero vision. All three INT's were all him. Bad decision making, bad passing. Then there's the fact that he struggled to put the fades and deep shots to the sideline in the field of play.

Our options for the rest of this season are:

- A 5th year senior who couldn't beat MSU at home

- A RS Fr. top recruit who has a serious shot to be the starter next year.

What do we have to lose? 2018 is CFP appearance/B1G Title or bust. Plain and simple. The WR's will actually know how to run routes, TE's and RB's will have more experience, offensive line will be better, defense will still be stacked, and special teams will be great. The only question mark is who the QB will be. We need to start developing Peters now. 

I don't believe for one minute that this is a meritocracy or that Peters was given a legit shot. If it is true, and a 4 star stud recruit in Harbaugh year 2 isn't better than Speight and O'Korn then we should give up on Peters right now.

wolverine1987

October 9th, 2017 at 12:48 PM ^

I was singing along with you until "I don't believe for one second that this is a meritocracy or that Peters was given a legit shot." Huh? Precisely what evidence of that is there? None is the answer. And your statement also fails the common sense test--what possible reaosn would JH have for not making this a meritocracy? Come on.

reshp1

October 9th, 2017 at 12:57 PM ^

If he had a shot of playing this year, it would have been after the 2nd or 3rd INT. The felt good enough about O'Korn to sit Speight down and get his head straight. They didn't even get Peters up of the bench to loosen up after the O'Korn interceptions.

BrightonB

October 9th, 2017 at 1:31 PM ^

The thing I see with him is he COULD run the option .... I also think he is better rolling out.  The offense doesn't fit his style is what I am seeing.  He really isn't a pocket passer in my opinion.  He can escape very good ... far better than Speight and when he does he usually makes something happen while running / throwing.  I just don't think he was being thrown the best play calls for his strengths.  Do some options ... make the D think he might run .. opens up a lot then.  O'Korn is not worse than Speight at all if used right.  I am sure many won't agree and that is fine.  It's just what I see when watching him.  He made escapes from the pocket that Speight just couldn't make and we probably would of been sacked more in that game as a result. 

I am not sure you start Peters next game .. but get him up to speed and starting throwing him in games, if you are going to do it,  here and there and then about 2 games from now put him in for the rest of the season.  I agree it can't hurt and I can live with his growing pains to get him more experience for next season.

I am still not personally freaked out byt the loss.  MSU is not the worst team out there and they had a lot of bounces go their way.  It happens .... The play calling (more deep balls and do some QB runs) could of opened more things up .... but it just didn't happen.

Season is not lost and with the right play calling O'Korn can win us games just as Speight could do.  I am not ready to give up at all .... we have 1 loss ... not the end of the world.

Not sure it's time yet to put him out there and burn a year.

 

jimt1023

October 9th, 2017 at 1:35 PM ^

You had me until the meritocracy thing.

So you think Peters is better right now and for some reason Harbaugh has decided to start OKorn because? He is older? That makes no sense. At this point you only go to Peters if you’re giving up on this season and investing in next season. I don’t think it’s time for that yet.

Also, given the youth / recruits for the offensive line I expect our line to remain pretty offensive next year.

jamesjosephharbaugh

October 9th, 2017 at 12:39 PM ^

At this juncture, what can reasonably be done to help the rest of the season? Assuming coaching changes are out till the end of the season. Offensive roster is stuck basically. What realistic options besides “practice blocking a lot” does JH have to try to salvage the rest of this year?

MileHighWolverine

October 9th, 2017 at 12:45 PM ^

Running plays that maximize our chances of winning? Seriously, our lineman are tasked with moving around way too much whern you consider they can't block people that are directly in front of them to begin with...simplify the offense.

Also, don't have 5 fucking turnovers. That might help things a bit but at this point I don't know what you do about that.... 

WeimyWoodson

October 9th, 2017 at 12:39 PM ^

I'm not saying to fire him, but to put on blame for the offense is something that should be done.  This is where I'll side with Baumgardner over Brian here.  Harbaugh is asking his recievers to run NFL routes, QB to make an NFL throw, and then the reciever to make an NFL catch.

These are not NFL players, don't expect NFL things from them.  Yes Harbaugh has seen college offense that has not worked in the NFL, but it works in college for a reason.  I personally couldn't care less that Meyers offense wouldn't work in the NFL, but it sure wins a lot of games in college.... 

Running a great college offense > running an NFL offense that doesn't have the players to do it properly.

ak47

October 9th, 2017 at 12:43 PM ^

The problem with Harbuagh's record against rivals isn't the actual record its that he is 1-4 despite having the better team in all but one matchup.  Sure the way Michigan lost to msu in 2015 was flukey as hell but Michigan still let a clearly inferior team hang around and be close enough for the flukey end to matter.  In the one game Harbuagh didn't have a better team he got run out of the building.  

I think Harbuagh is still great and will continue to do good things but at Michigan life is different than Stanford.  He is in a situation where talent disparities mean an even coaching match should result in 9 wins a year and he has yet to scheme Michigan to a win over a superior or really evenly matched team.  At some point he needs to have a great gameplan that either blows out an evenly matched team or leads to an upset of a better team.  He hasn't had a ton of opportunity for the latter but he will get two this year against psu and osu.

L'Carpetron Do…

October 9th, 2017 at 12:49 PM ^

Couldn't agree more - they've had the superior team over State in three matchups, largely outplayed them in all 3 matchups and came away 1-2 (I think State deserved to win the other day because of Michigan's turnovers and mistakes on offense but I still feel like Michigan outplayed them, largely to the heroism of the defense). Same for Ohio State last year - Michigan deserved to win but costly mistakes and an epic, once-in-a-lifetime boning by the refs gave it to Ohio State. 

They've actually performed well in these rivalry games and are in position to win them but come out emptyhanded. It's fucking infuriating.

gbdub

October 9th, 2017 at 1:17 PM ^

I agree - Sparty rode a lot of luck to the playoff that year, and got exposed, but that was still a nearly "peak Dantonio" type outfit vs. a team Harbaugh had only had for half a season. That was not a "we ought to crush them" game.

And we may have been as almost as good as OSU last year, but we weren't better.

Basically, Harbaugh is 1-1 in rivalry games he definitely SHOULD win, 0-2 in tossups (by a total of 7 points, a miracle, and a lot of ref fuckery), and 0-1 in games he definitely should lose. Not great Bob, but a damn small sample size.