Michigan 62 Arizona State 87
Arizona State was having a good time. Frankie Collins was having a good time. Jon Crispin was having a good time pointing out how good of a time Arizona State was having. The 95% Michigan fans in Brooklyn for the championship round of the Legends Classic were not having a good time. I have not checked in on Brian.
Sometimes one team makes shots and the other doesn't make shots, and you get a stupid basketball game. This was a very, very stupid basketball game.
Arizona State made shots. They made pullup long twos. They made fallaways, one-foot jacks, and threes contested and otherwise. They made 30-foot ones over zones, and another off a double-dribble. They went 11/19 on three-pointers and went 21/34 on twos, and the first of those anywhere near the rim was a fall-down flip that Duke Brennan managed to arc over Hunter Dickinson 6 minutes into the game. Michigan meanwhile couldn't get a dunk to go.
Arizona State shot better from the field (56%) in the first half than Michigan did from the free-throw line (53%), then shot 67% from the field in the second half. This was how it went until Collins put a layup over Dickinson on one end, Jett airballed an open three on the other, and Michigan stopped pretending their fortunes might change and inserted the bench.
This went in. [Wilcomes]
I wish I could report that there was anything interesting to this, but Arizona State just hit shots. For the most part they weren't good shots, advisable shots, well-coached shots, well-worked shots, or shots that revealed a fatal weakness in the defense. They just ran around until they thought they had a spot, put it up, and it went down. On the off chance it didn't rattle, roll, or bip bim bounce in, it caromed back out to a shooter who threw it or himself at the basket again, and that went in.
Okay, here's a couple: Frankie Collins put freshmen Jett Howard and Tarris Reed in a blender to create that shot at the rim. And after getting chased around the court by Jace Howard for an entire shot clock, DJ Horne made one off his chest at the horn. Jace Howard: not a guard. Frankie Collins: Still Frankie Collins. Analysis!
Michigan did have trouble against those defenders finding the types of shots they prefer. Frankie Collins in particular had an inspired night shutting down the guy he thought was recruited over him, Jaelin Llewellyn, who wasn't recruited over him. Lanes around the perimeter that were open in Michigan's first three games found Sun Devil arms tipping their passes out of bounds. Joey Baker couldn't get set up. Jett Howard's length made him somewhat immune from all this; everyone else found themselves dribbling until they could get rid of it.
This did not go in. [Wilcomes]
Michigan's guards especially struggled to find Dickinson at the rim, as Arizona State worked to deny him the ball and swarmed when it arrived. That and how luck was running contributed to Michigan getting a bagel from their star for the first 12 minutes. There was a missed dunk, and a bucket that ASU goaltended without a call along the way, but ASU's length and attention also helped hold Michigan's big man to an awful night. Tarris Reed entered with energy, ripping down three boards and drawing two fouls in 4 first-half minutes, but could only make 1/4 of the resulting free throws, part of another awful night at the line for this team. His defense was also hit and miss (see: blender).
Nobody had a more miserable night than Kobe Bufkin, who was 1/9 from the field, with three assists that could have been nine if his teammates didn't clang everything in the first half. He also drew ASU's DJ Horne (19 points, on 14 shots), and Austin Nunez (15 points on 10), neither of whom seemed to miss no matter how ridiculous their attempts. Michigan chipped the lead down to 14 in the first four minutes after the half, with Bufkin finally getting on the board with a layup/and-1 opportunity. But ASU countered with an alley-oop when everyone assumed Horne was taking another contested two from the top of the lane.
That's not to put the scoring on Bufkin. Michigan's strategy of going zone early against a traditionally bad shooting team backfired by getting Horne and Desmond Cambridge Jr. (who was 0/10 from three coming into this game) locked in. That pushed ASU's lead to ten, where it hovered until Nunez entered and hit a horizontal contested jack off the dribble over Bufkin to push the score out to 25-10.
Attempts to whittle away after the half were thwarted by Cambridge, who took over the second half. Out of the under-16 timeout he hit a contested triple, then hit a heat check on their next trip to push ASU's lead back up to 58-39. As Cambridge sat, Horne took over again.
As the baskets piled up for ASU, and Michigan's shooters were more likely to hit the heel than the rim, Dickinson started trying to put Michigan back in it himself. A few tough post moves drew buckets, but he also allowed himself to get swarmed, giving up a block/tie-up, and then several late turnovers.
Michigan finally put it a couple of three-pointers late when Dug McDaniel took a 30-foot heat check, and then Youssef Khayat put up a 35-footer that rattled in off a bank.
Drawing conclusions from this kind of game is beyond my skills. Bobby Hurley's going to conclude this means he's right to just have his career 29% shooters just jack up anything they feel like. QED.
[A cursed box score after the jump.]
November 18th, 2022 at 12:47 AM ^
Biff
/takes
November 18th, 2022 at 8:33 AM ^
Poggi
November 18th, 2022 at 12:47 AM ^
I agree. Throwaway game.
November 18th, 2022 at 12:57 AM ^
Definitely a flush it in the toilet game and no reason to believe that's "who we are" any more than last night's 72% shooting second half did. Even so, it underscored some existing concerns:
- Getting nothing from Bufkin and Llewellyn is a real problem when the rest of the back court is freshman Dug and air.
- Hunter struggled with the double/triple teams that he's gonna be dealing with all season, so we're gonna have to keep finding ways to pay that off elsewhere. Making shots helps.
The optimistic view...
- Up-transferring is an adjustment and Lewellyn should become a plus on the offensive end as the year goes on. We saw Devante evolve from absolute disaster to a key part of the tourney push last year, and Mike Smith improved substantially the year before.
- I'm entertaining the idea that Bufkin can be a respectable defender.
- Hunter is going to be one of the best in the conference regardless of the double/triple teams.
November 18th, 2022 at 1:35 AM ^
What about Baker’s down-transferring?
- Chatty Clown Crispin
November 18th, 2022 at 12:08 PM ^
Agree with this take. The shooting will improve and the team will gel over time.
My biggest concerns are that the team looked very slow (both ends), almost plodding, and looked not very bouncy and athletic (other than Bufkin). Let's hope that was a circumstance thing. Lewellyn and Dug looked okay but I am concerned with Jett, Baker, Hunter, TWill (looked less athletic than normal), that we have a plodding team with sluggish defense that will struggle to rebound.
November 18th, 2022 at 12:56 PM ^
Good defenses don't give up 87 to bad offenses no matter how unlucky. We have a bad defense, which isn't surprising at all given that we had a bad defense last year and lost our two best defensive players (Brooks and Moussa).
The only question is just how bad it'll be (and how much the offense can make up for it). Torvik has us in the 100s right now. Kenpom is a bit more generous at 83rd. Those are down there with Beileins worst defenses but there's still a lot of preseason expectations propping that up. If we keep having games like EMU and ASU, that's defensive futility not seen since the Ellerbe days.
November 18th, 2022 at 6:42 AM ^
nope just some of us. you, specifically, but that’s not exactly a surprise.
November 18th, 2022 at 1:15 AM ^
I blame Twitter imploding
November 18th, 2022 at 1:34 AM ^
While it would have been nice to have kept Frankie around, this game illustrates why the staff clearly wasn't willing to anoint him as the chosen one.
November 18th, 2022 at 9:52 AM ^
For the Princeton transfer that is 0-11 from 3, 60% from the line and a 2:1 turnover to assist rate?
Or Bufkin, who is 1-13 from 3 and also a 2:1 turnover to assist rate?
I'm not saying Frankie is the "chosen one" but our turnstile PG system has been uninspiring the last two seasons and can we name 1 guard in Juwan's 4 years that has been developed so far? I think those are very real concerns.
November 18th, 2022 at 10:17 AM ^
Frankie Collins is averaging 4.8 assists...against 4.4 turnovers. Thats significantly worse than 2:1. There are valid reasons to wish we had kept Frankie (I certainly do). Assist to turnover ratio isn't one.
November 18th, 2022 at 12:06 PM ^
He's saying they have a 2:1 turnover to assist rate, suggesting twice as many TOs as assists. Which isn't the case for Michigan players. Bufkin and Lllewellen have pretty low assist rates but they also both have very low TO rates on the season (12 and 14 respectively).
Lllewellen is 0-11 from three and still has an Ortg almost the same as Frankie (87 to 90 - both very bad). He's shooting a very good 60% from two. That three point percent is a small sample fluke. He'll start hitting.
He's less likely to start creating for others though. He's probably not going to be an assist machine.
November 18th, 2022 at 1:18 PM ^
"can we name 1 guard in Juwan's 4 years that has been developed so far?"
Yes, Mike Smith (unless you are talking only about new recruits). Smith arrived as a scoring PG and transformed his game substantially during the year, becoming a pretty good PG by the end (with some defensive limits based on height). Juwan at least deserves some credit for that.
Juwan really has not had the opportunity to develop many multi-year PGs so the jury is out.
I would like Frankie on this team but it's not clear that he would be substantially better overall and also not clear that he would not have left anyway even if we gave him the keys.
November 18th, 2022 at 8:18 PM ^
Do you not consider Eli Brooks to have been developed?
Of course you could reasonably argue that beilein holdovers don’t count. But if you don’t count beilein holdovers then the premise of questioning whether a coach can develop guards when he hasn’t had a chance to coach a single recruiting class through senior year yet is an absurd premise.
November 18th, 2022 at 2:32 AM ^
Two issues which the team can work on based on the last three games: perimeter defense and rebounding.
There is no defensive scheme which can account for the guards and wings not being able to stay in-front of their man, not being aware of where the ball is, and not getting up on the ball handler. This has been a huge issue. It’s a hustle and awareness thing so it can, and probably will, get better. Some of the leaders on the team need to make sure Kobe and Jett know the level of effort which is expected on the defensive end. I’m giving Llewelyn a pass for now as I think he needs a title time to adapt.
I really thought T Williams would be a dog on the boards, but that has not developed. There have been many missed box outs (from everyone) and currently Juwan is not having anyone crash the offensive glass. Again, this is an effort and awareness thing.
I’m really puzzled as to why the staff didn’t get Bufkin more experience last year because he looks like someone still adjusting to the college game.
This can all be worked on and get better. The question is can the coaches and team leaders make it happen.
November 18th, 2022 at 1:01 PM ^
I mean, being aware of the ball is correctable but being able to stay in front of players on the perimeter is largely and athleticism issue. You can slightly help yourself out with hustle and savvy but it's mostly about how quickly you can move your feet. Michigan doesn't have good perimeter athleticism (which is why they tried the zone early).
November 18th, 2022 at 3:43 AM ^
10 minutes in I was already laughing at the absurdity of this game. “Watch this”, I’d say to my wife as an ASU guy took another crazy shot, “this is going in”. “No way,” she’d say and then the thing would arc perfectly into the net. At the other end: brick brick brick.
It’s not unusual to see one team have a wildly divergent game, but it’s pretty rare to see both teams have one but in opposite directions. Oh well.
November 18th, 2022 at 4:55 AM ^
That was EMBARRASING...Hey Michigan how about playing some FUKING DEFENSE
November 18th, 2022 at 5:33 AM ^
This entire recap is very dismissive. It reads as if Arizona State was lucky and Michigan played equal or better but was just unlucky. That was definitely not the case. Michigan played very poorly.
Arizona State played hard. You could tell they had some extra juice and the team seemed to rally behind Frankie. Michigan got run off the court and they looked scared the entire game. On trips where Michigan had to get a bucket, they settled for terrible shots or went up weak for a layup and got blocked. Defense was really bad. Yes, Arizona State made some tough shots but they made a lot of easy ones too. It was ugly.
November 18th, 2022 at 6:27 AM ^
I don't know man, maybe it's somewhere in between. I didn't watch the 2nd half, but the first half was absolutely ASU chucking up contested shots (not good shot selections either) and draining them. When you pull up for two just inside the top of the key with a guy in your face, not a good choice. But then to drain it and then do it over and over...it gets to a ridiculous level. There was some poor play mixed in with a lot of ASU ridiculousness.
November 18th, 2022 at 8:37 AM ^
They looked like they did against Arizona last year. Just completely shook on the court.
November 18th, 2022 at 10:00 AM ^
Seth's schtick of "the other team isn't well-coached, but Michigan's is so they got lucky for winning" gets very old. Yes, Bobby Hurley is a bad coach that is true. It is also true that he thoroughly kicked Juwan's ass last night in every facet of the game.
November 18th, 2022 at 10:03 AM ^
The idea that Frankie was any kind of factor in that game is ridiculous. He was 2-5 from the field with 5 turnovers and 4 fouls in 18 minutes. He was completely ineffectual. He is not missed.
November 18th, 2022 at 1:26 PM ^
He played some solid defense, but that's not the point. No one mentioned that his play was a factor. I said his teammates rallied around him.
The "he is not missed" line cracks me up. I'm sure he's real disappointed right now after his new team absolutely dominated his old one on both ends of the court. He's probably really broken up about not being missed here as his team just set a program record for largest margin of victory over a ranked opponent.
You're right though, we didn't need someone that was ineffectual last night. We had that role covered by literally every single player on our team.
November 18th, 2022 at 3:00 PM ^
Llewellyn couldn't do anything against him on offense though .
November 18th, 2022 at 8:29 PM ^
This reads like like someone who didn’t watch the game and only looked at the box score.
Collins was a force on the defensive end and was largely responsible for a lot of turnovers that turned into efficient transition offense.
The foul trouble took him off the court but by then the game was mostly out of reach anyways
November 18th, 2022 at 6:19 AM ^
Pretty obvious Michigan players have not bought into defense yet. Sure they guard there man and look the part, but the intensity, mindset, and aggressiveness is lacking. ASU looked like a team that wanted to play defense and made it tough on Michigan.
Michigan looked like a team that had to play defense. The problem with that mindset is twofold: it means you lose for sure if your offense isn’t clicking and it often can carry over to the offensive end.
They better buy in soon because the offense isn’t anything to hang your hat on.
November 18th, 2022 at 6:35 AM ^
Nobody is going to want to hear this, but I must shoulder the majority of the blame: I didn't watch the game. I'm an older guy who keeps early first shift hours. I tried, I couldn't do it. I'm sorry 😞
November 18th, 2022 at 6:42 AM ^
The game was silly. Everything shot by ASU was crisp, contested, and silly. They all went in...
November 18th, 2022 at 7:11 AM ^
It's too easy to just dismiss this blowout loss as being due to the other team shooting lights out. Yes, even if we had played better, we probably still don't win this game. But Michigan is showing some significant consistent flaws that unless addressed, will limit the teams ceiling:
Defense, or lack thereof is a big problem. Too many shots last night were poorly contested.
Free throw shooting. It stinks.
Offensive rebounding. Basically, there isn't any. Most outside shots, there's nobody even near the badket.
Consistency. Key players not named Dickinson need to show up every night and at least do something. Williams and Bufkin look good one night, and nonexistent the next.
Shot creation if Dickinson is double covered. We have to have some other options than jacking up 3's and hoping they go in.
Good news is, the season is young and there's time to get a lot better.
November 18th, 2022 at 7:14 AM ^
Sometimes when you're on. You're really fuckin' on.
I'm willing to write this off as that at this point.
November 18th, 2022 at 9:12 AM ^
No one likes streaky shooters. You don't like 'em when you got 'em, because they'll have a night like what ASU was having and then go ice-cold the next night. And you don't like going against 'em, because they'll have a night like what ASU was having and then go ice-cold the next night.
No one likes streaky shooters, is what I'm saying.
November 18th, 2022 at 7:23 AM ^
I was all set to lambast this team for last night-but thought I should, at least, review some tape first. Okay. There are nights like this. Michigan did not play well offensively but when everything the opposition throws in the direction of their hoop goes in-sometimes there just isn't much you can do. This was one of those nights.
November 18th, 2022 at 7:25 AM ^
how to make shots? (skip to 1:53 ...)
November 18th, 2022 at 7:36 AM ^
ASU shot absurdly well for shot quality. However, Michigan played very poorly on both ends. I think Bufkin is an average defender, and he might be their best right now. Jett has no interest in it, and he got pulled for it on the second half after giving up back to back plays where he lost his man and the ball. When I played, you always watched man and ball to help if needed. Anyway, defense is effort and intensity, which can make up for a lack of lateral quickness a bit. Michigan will either get interested or be a very average team this year
November 18th, 2022 at 7:39 AM ^
I forced myself to watch the whole game and it really was just a dumb situation where one team could not hit open shots and the other team did. ASU played fine defense but weren't fantastic; this wasn't the other Arizona school last year that just manhandled UM. People keep talking about the lack of athleticism for UM but they played (and beat) way more athletic teams last year with a less athletic team. ASU looked "good" because the dumb shots they took went in, and that type of "holy shit, this is working" leads to increased confidence and a looseness that lets you fly around on defense, hack guys seemingly with impunity, and goaltend at least twice.
ASU deserved to win this game but I noted elsewhere that if ASU simply hit a normal number of threes (7/19 for 36% instead of 11/19) and UM hit the same average (8/22 instead of 4/22) this is a 1-point game. And it's not hard to find 8 of those shots out of the 41 3s attempted in this game.
Ah well, they gotta move on and hopefully blow out the next two opponents and get ready for UVa, and actually very good defense that will be a bear to break most likely.
November 18th, 2022 at 9:29 PM ^
Yes, luck could have made this a closer game. So could skill. Michigan played like shit. Dickinson, in particular, worried me. He is skilled; he is not athletic.
November 18th, 2022 at 7:49 AM ^
Improved defense presumably stops ASU a little bit more but to some extent what could you do.
The other end however…
November 18th, 2022 at 7:50 AM ^
Roster composition is a big problem for Juwan right now. Almost no shooters, not very athletic, dearth of guards. Not sure who is pulling the strings on the recruiting front, but I think Juwan needs to make some changes in philosophy or personnel.
November 18th, 2022 at 8:32 AM ^
This team has plenty of shooters. Jett, baker, llewelyn, and bufkin are all guys who should be 35%+ from three. Terrance Williams is also probably there.
What they don’t have and tried to get with Llewelyn is a guy who can create his own shot off the dribble when something breaks down. It’s hard to run your offense through a big.
November 18th, 2022 at 9:32 PM ^
You had me until no shooters--oh, that was where you started. I think that's what we do have. If the shooters are completely awful (which it looks like long, athletic teams may sometimes do), nothing else is going to work. The defense will come, slowly. Lllewellyn will, hopefully, come. We all need to pray.
November 18th, 2022 at 7:54 AM ^
That Nunez double dribble three from the top of the key was my breaking point.
November 18th, 2022 at 2:59 PM ^
I usually hate ref bitching and they aren't why Michigan lost but man they were bad. That was the most obvious double dribble ever.
I think Seth is dismissing this game too much. Michigan isn't going to be this bad and we've seen big time improvement through the seasons with Juwan, and ASU did hit some tough shots , but this was really ugly. And I'm sure ASU isn't as good as Arizona was last year.
November 18th, 2022 at 10:07 PM ^
Kobe's lack of response is part of the issue here also. Had he suddenly started pointing and yelling double dribble, I'm guessing the ref thinks twice and calls it. Or at least goes to review, which I think they are allowed to do for a double dribble.
Kobe just backed off, watched the shot go in and started running back for offense.
This is the little shit that makes a difference over time. Hopefully Kobe learns.
November 18th, 2022 at 8:29 AM ^
Frankie was absolutely recruited over here. I don’t know why that’s a controversial take. The staff saw him in action and made the decision the team needed a better starting pg. that’s getting recruited over
probably going to have to do it again with dug next year and hope he handles it better
November 18th, 2022 at 10:18 AM ^
I always read that situation more as they didn't have a ton of faith that Collins + Bufkin would be able to hold up offensively so they needed to get a shooter in the backcourt, especially with Dug also coming in with limited offensive upside early on. Collins wasn't going to get 30 minutes a game but I watched him in this game and he looked not unlike last year; a strong defender with a questionable shot and not the best court vision.
November 18th, 2022 at 1:33 PM ^
Maybe but I think labelling it that way is a wrong take. I like Frankie's game but offensively he was very rough last year. If you wanted Juwan to simply add Dug and no one else after losing Jones and Brooks, that would be borderline coaching malpractice because of depth and because Frankie was/is a risky endeavor for a team with tourney aspirations (especially with HD and the need for outside shooting). If Frankie's offensive game does not grow, you are sinking the whole season.
It's unfortunate but I think that Juwan made the right call under the circumstances. As MattD indicates, it's relatively easy to address team depth at guard with transfers and that will likely happen going forward for many teams.
November 18th, 2022 at 8:38 AM ^
Teams fluctuate within a certain range in their shooting from game to game. Maybe within a 10-12% range (5-6% up or down) of their average on threes, a little less on overall fg, and a smaller range on their free throws. Even great, or bad nights shooting the basketball rarely see such a wide divergence from the average, and to have both teams do so on the same night, in different directions, will give you stupid results like this game.
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