MGoPodcast 15.9: The 2023-'24 Hoops Preview Comment Count

BlueBarron November 2nd, 2023 at 7:00 AM

1 hour and 40 minutes

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1. The Latest on Signgate

Starts at 1:00

The developments that have developed are basically nothing. Feels like we know pretty much what there is to know, it's just a matter of what happens next from the NCAA. Michigan could be the first program hit with the NCAA's new rule of "if a staffer gets in trouble, the head coach also gets in trouble". There's some failure on the part of Warde Manuel. What is the actual competitive advantage of stolen signals? College football coaches are the most paranoid people in America. Based on how the NCAA has handled these issues, it seems extremely unlikely that anything will happen to Michigan this season. Worst case scenario would be Jim Harbaugh gets a show-cause a year or two down the road.

[The rest of the writeup and the player after THE JUMP]

2. Michigan Men's Basketball Backcourt

Starts at 22:37

Dug McDaniel is the most established guard. Freshmen point guards can be shaky, McDaniel's trajectory for his sophomore year is encouraging. Jaelin Llewellyn is your next most established guard. We didn't see a lot of him last year since he tore his ACL but he should be full go by now. Hard to know how much we're getting back from him after his injury. Nimari Burnett transfers as a rotation player from an Alabama team that was the 3rd best defense in college basketball last year. His offensive upside is unknown, Charles Matthews is a good comparison. George Washington III was described by Dug McDaniels as a good shooter but probably won't see more than 10 minutes per game. Jace Howard is listed as a guard but it's unlikely that he'll be a lot more than he was last year. 

3. Michigan Men's Basketball Frontcourt

Starts at 45:38

Takes hotter than Edward Norton Jr. after seeing Connor Stalions on the sidelines at CMU and he's like "I GOT THIS ROLE. THIS IS ALL ME, BABY". Tarris Reed is your starter, who is also Not Hunter Dickinson. He was slightly better defensively than Hunter Dickinson but the offensive drop-off was much bigger. Also needs to be better than 40% at free throws! Olivier Nkamhoua was a big contributor for the #1 defense in the country last year. That is already a huge upgrade defensively at the 4. He won't solve all your problems but is a very good, veteran basketball player. Seth thinks the final starting spot is Terrance Williams II, Brian thinks it's Tray Jackson. Will Tschetter: exists. Youssef Khayat could be a guy. 

4. 2023-2024 Men's Basketball Overview

Starts at 1:21:19

Making the tournament is a reasonable goal for this team. Where is Michigan going to get their points from? This gets made up by the massive defensive improvements. Michigan loses Jett Howard to the NBA but Michigan was a better team without Jett Howard. Juwan Howard is still recovering from heart surgery and has not been available in the pre-season coaching. There are going to be some hiccups with this team but all the transfers coming in are very experienced players from good teams. The vibes were awful last year but should be much better this year. 
 

MUSIC:

  • “U-Love”— J Dilla
  • “Crosshairs”— Dangerdoom, MFDoom
  • “Smooth Aisles”—  Michael Nau
  • “Across 110th Street”
THE USUAL LINKS:

 


"Nobody puts Connor on the sideline."

Comments

outsidethebox

November 2nd, 2023 at 7:26 AM ^

Luckily, basketball is a very highly nuanced game and all the hot takes in the world will not define how a specific team will perform in an upcoming season. It is fair to say that any predictions about this year's Michigan, at this time, are pure conjecture. To me, it seems safe to say that they will likely perform above expectations-it will be difficult not to. (It would have been nice to have Bufkin back.)

dragonchild

November 2nd, 2023 at 8:08 AM ^

It's telling that the first program likely to get hit with the NCAA's "buck stops at the top" rule is getting witch-hunted over signs.  Not an abuse scandal, not a hazing scandal, not an academic fraud scandal. . . it's fucking signs.

HTV

November 2nd, 2023 at 8:09 AM ^

What about Connor Stallions would have come up to say not to hire this guy?  Did he have sign stealing stuff on his social media prior to him being hired?

LSA91

November 2nd, 2023 at 8:59 AM ^

I think Brian is using hindsight a little bit, and saying that Stalions was so intense that the staff should have passed on him. I don't agree, but I'm very interested to see what kind of compliance program Michigan had.  

If you put your people under pressure to perform, you need to train and watch them, because some will cut corners. Hopefully, we did.

Shorty the Bea…

November 2nd, 2023 at 10:03 AM ^

With the Shemy hire and now Stalions it sure looks like Harbs and M didn't really care much about compliance. Likely out of naivety that they will simply hire "good people" who can be trusted to do things the right way.

More like lip service and coach speak than active educating, training, and monitoring.

But, let's wait and see until the facts come out..

4th phase

November 2nd, 2023 at 10:35 AM ^

I was thinking about this because rival fans have said things like "Harbaugh had to know when he hired Stalions that no person actually following the rules could have been this good at signs"

But if you think about it, this guy was volunteering to work for free for years, had been paying his own way to fly back to games while he was in school and serving, which in the military usually you have to use your PTO if you leave your home area on the weekends. So your weekends aren't entirely yours. But the point is he showed a lot of dedication and hussle, if you don't know about the unethical stuff, then it just looks like a hard worker. And when you hire him, you are giving him a $55k/year position. Those are probably pretty low level and expendable in something as huge as the Michigan AD. It was a very low risk hire. 

Champeen

November 2nd, 2023 at 8:09 AM ^

What happened to Matt?  Wasn't he the sites basketball guy?

Also, i disagree in regards to the Big Man.  He is not Hunter Dick, thank goodness.  You use 'trajectory for his sophomore year' for Dug but not Tarris? If Tarris was better defensively, as a freshmen, than Junior year Hunter, then with an average sophomore leap, we should get a guy who overall is as good as Hunter was as a junior.  Hunter was horrible defensively last year and no stat you pull out will change what my eyes know.  Is there a stat to show how many times he jogged to loose ball only to be out-hustled by 4 of the other teams players who should have had no chance and getting it over him? His switching was lazy, and his effort on blocks was equally.

My bet is that yes, we will still miss Hunter on offense.  But Tarris will make up for that discrepancy on the defensive side of the ball, and intangibles.

 

4th phase

November 2nd, 2023 at 10:38 AM ^

I am forever the optimist, but I think the sophmore leaps from Dug and Tarris can propel this team to the tournament. Last year having inconsisent at best guard play was a huge problem. Add in Nkamhoua and that is at least a decent top 3 players. In college you don't need a roster littered with NBA players to win games. 

alum96

November 2nd, 2023 at 1:45 PM ^

I see Dug making a big leap.  I am not so optimistic on Harris - we all love him for his effort but his game is like a very poor man's Dennis Rodman.  As in he has no offensive moves and just is a garbage cleanup guy at the rim from what I saw last year.  Hopefully Juwan had him developing some offensive game this offseason.  Also when he is out we are going to be very small in the interior and guys like him can pick up 2 fouls in 3 minutes very easily so I'd be thrilled if we even get 20 minutes a game out of Harris based on how he plays.  6-7 pts per game and 5 rebounds is what I see. 

ohaijoe

November 3rd, 2023 at 1:32 PM ^

This logic is questionable. Kansas could be mistaken, could be desperate, or what I think is most likely, could ask Hunter to play a different role. I tend to think many Michigan fans would agree—if you can appeal to authority, I can chime in with my own logical fallacy—that Hunter was not good for us last year. If he can find a better fit with KU, more power to him.

bighouseinmate

November 2nd, 2023 at 9:19 AM ^

Don’t look now but Thamel has another inflammatory article out with “sources” saying B1G coaches are calling on the B1G commissioner to do something this season against UM based on all of the “evidence”. Have to wonder if by “sources” he really means Day and maybe, possibly, Franklin or Lockesly. 

Romeo50

November 2nd, 2023 at 9:23 AM ^

Oh yeah...what did they do wrong? That's why we report these days isn't it?

Seriously, hope Coach is OK and the team features pleasant surprises.

andyburdick72

November 2nd, 2023 at 9:52 AM ^

I have updated my 2023 MGoBlog music playlists with the songs from this episode - here are the links:

FWIW, I went as Harbaugh for Halloween, and it prompted many interesting conversations. :) As always, Go Blue!

MGoGoGo

November 2nd, 2023 at 10:26 AM ^

The claims that "literally everybody knew" of Michigan's sign stealing and that the sign stealing gave Michigan an unfair advantage and is the reason for its success over the past two years (especially against OSU) are only reconcilable if you conclude that the other big 10 teams were too dumb to change their signs before playing Michigan. 

ColoradoBlue

November 2nd, 2023 at 10:38 AM ^

Meh, I'm not as pessimistic on the whole idea that UM is exposed on the policies and procedures front simply due to the assumption that <paraphrasing> "Harbaugh isn't adept that the more bureaucratic aspects of coaching."

This is a lazy take, frankly.  I'm guessing that this description fits a lot of coaches, which is why  there are people on the AD's staff to keep this kind of stuff organized and documented.  I'm not referring to Warde, directly, but his staff.  Based on anecdotal evidence in the recruiting operations, UM is quite adherent to policies and procedures.  All they have to do is show that they checked the box w.r.t. educating the staff on the rules of improper scouting and there is the cover that Harbaugh needs to avoid a show cause.

Shorty the Bea…

November 2nd, 2023 at 10:39 AM ^

That's so hard to get on Manuel because Harbaugh's "nature" doesn't allow him to do his own job correctly.

Harbaugh must engage in compliance whether that's the part of his job he likes or is good at or not.

And Stalions may well have been a great hire. But he was not monitored in the performance of his duties and possibly not educated in rules compliance. However, dressing like a CMU coach and showing up on their sidelines sure seems like he understood enough to know he was breaking rules and wanted to do so. Hence, monitoring your staff is important and dollars to donuts Harbs cares not for that part of his job.

I hope there's no new revelations here. And I hope new processes can be implemented to ensure more effective compliance going forward. But I'd be fired if I did only the parts of the job I enjoyed. And hiring Shemy without vetting and not monitoring your underlings sure seems like that's what Harbs has been doing.

1989 UM GRAD

November 2nd, 2023 at 11:07 AM ^

I am optimistic about this year's team.

I was in a very long text argument with one of my Michigan sports text groups.  My theory that Michigan was hamstrung by being such a young team.  I looked at the top 7 players on each of the Elite Eight teams, and pretty much all of them had 4-6 players who were in their 3rd/4th/5th years.  Typically any of the younger players were top-50 types.

Conversely, Michigan had one experienced major contributor, and he was a defensive liability and mostly one-dimensional on offense.  I was a fan of Hunter, but I think he really limited how the team could play and the type of offensive sets they could run.

The analysis of Jett has been done ad nauseum, so I won't repeat it here.

Really the only "balanced" player on last year's team was Kobe Bufkin...and he still was only a sophomore.

Now, we have two promising sophomores surrounded by a bunch of 4th and 5th year players.  Knowing how to play and knowing where to be, and knowing what to do is just as important as raw talent at the college level.  

Too bad we couldn't get Caleb Love or Terrence Shannon.  Last year's team looks much different with Shannon.  Adds experience and probably pushes Jett to the bench.  And this year's team would be a top 10 team with both of them.  

LSA91

November 2nd, 2023 at 11:18 AM ^

From what I've read, the downside of wristbands is that they slow down tempo by a second or two while the QB looks up the play, so most teams prefer not to use them.  Is that fair?

bronxblue

November 2nd, 2023 at 11:55 AM ^

The basketball breakdown is about where I come down.  I don't think this is a sweet 16 team unless just insanity breaks out but the floor is high enough that they could look like MSU for a number of years where they fart into the play in game.

Also, I find it validating that my feelings last year about Jett were seen by others.  He was by far the worst, most disinterested defender I've seen at Michigan and he wasn't good offensively basically as soon as conference play started and he only shot from outside.  I'm not remotely surprised the team was better with him on the bench.  I harbor no ill will toward him but sometimes it's a bad idea to play for your dad if you aren't able to hold yourself accountable internally.

kehnonymous

November 2nd, 2023 at 12:57 PM ^

I didn't want to add another topic about signgate when we have a new Hot Take being posted every five minutes, but did want to encourage people to peep this podcast ep that I'm currently listening to, and to also just signal boost the podcast in general:

Forever Saturday: Our Very Own Pole Assassin

While IANAL, the hosts are (they're married and he proposed to her on the field after THE 2021 game).  Serena made some very interesting points that I'll (badly) sum up:  the oft-cited NCAA 11.6.1 by-law is about the presumption of a coach's responsibility, in other words, responsible unless proven otherwise. Which means Michigan gets to present its case that they took reasonable steps to promote compliance amongst its staff.  Right now it looks like they're pursuing this defense instead of the "scouting gray area", which makes sense.  Notwithstanding Brian's observation that Harbaugh doesn't seem like a guy who focuses on that stuff, you can make a pretty good case that Michigan took reasonable steps to ensure staffer compliance and didn't count on Stalions being a total wingbat who literally went rogue, especially because the more we hear about him that more plausible that sounds.  If that defense doesn't work with the NCAA then at that point Michigan lawyers up and faces off vs them sometime in 2025-26 and throws everything but the kitchen sink at them.

dcloren2121

November 2nd, 2023 at 1:20 PM ^

Interesting to hear the conversation about hiring malpractices prior to the days news about the other staffer. Gotta think these guys are gonna be even hotter with Warde after hearing that break.

AC1997

November 2nd, 2023 at 6:11 PM ^

Comments on the basketball part....

  • Llewellyn is still not cleared for full contact.  He will likely not be ready by the first game and missed the Marquette scrimmage.  His surgery was about 9 months ago, which is typical for ACL.  (Disagree with Brian calling it a 6mon injury... especially basketball.)
  • I think Burnett was always going to start even if the Caleb Love fiasco doesn't happen....but I say that because I think ideally he's a 3, not a 2.  He will have to play the 2 now and should defend well with his crazy long arms, but dribbling and creation are a total unknown.  
  • Seth.....come on.....Jace isn't better than anyone on this roster.  He isn't a good defender and he's a horrible offensive player.  His best defensive moments are defending bigs, not guards.  He's the spiritual leader as a senior....he should only play in an emergency.  Please don't defend his shooting on a sample size of 17 shots either.  Love Jace as a bench leader....not as an on court player.  

AC1997

November 2nd, 2023 at 6:38 PM ^

Front court comments....

  • Reed is better defensively than the stats show.  Agree with Brian on 60% FT.  For whatever reason the scrimmage upset win over top 10 Marquette wasn't mentioned at all and Reed had 17 points and good FT shooting.  
  • Don't sleep on Nkamhoua threes.  Brian mentioned his mid range game and modest outside shot at UT....but at both the GLeague camp and FIBA championship he took a lot of threes and shot really well.  
  • Tschetter is going to be the third center.....and that's it.  Hopefully he remembers how to hit threes.
  • Jackson might be the wildcard for this team.  If he's a plus shooter at the 3/4 spots....team does well.  If he scuffles, yikes.