MGoPodcast 12.11: Porridge and the Urban Lifestyle
1 hour and 35 minutes
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1. Penn State Recap
starts at 1:00
Wholesale fail. Can we all agree now that running off your starting quarterback is bad? Did they ruin Joe Milton so much in the last six weeks that they would rather stick with Cade when he can't even remove his mouth guard with his throwing arm? Defense just so many things wrong. Let's talk about new coaches.
[The rest of the writeup and the player after The Jump]
2. New Coach Ideas Time
starts at 17:35
We run through the plausible name and then talk about 20 other guys. Bad year to be doing this if they don't get Campbell, probably.
3. Hot Takes and Hockey
starts at 48:20
The slick kids run into the left wing lock. Gonna take more than dumping and chasing to beat a team that plays like Notre Dame, and that takes time and getting used to attacking through the neutral zone with speed and precision.
4. Around the Big Ten wsg Jamie Mac
starts at 1:04:15
Everybody's covering. Michigan State must be the most annoying team to play ever. Scott Frost has a new batch of complaints because his center can't snap the ball.
MUSIC:
- “What's the Matter"—Twin Peaks
- “Do I Have to Talk You Into It”—Spoon
- “It's Too Late”—The Isleys
- “Across 110th Street”
THE USUAL LINKS:
I don't think we should be taking advice from Q-Anon the Fanbase
November 29th, 2020 at 4:23 PM ^
Can someone actually show any evidence that Harbaugh "ran off" Dylan? Everyone bandies about this pronouncement, yet how do we know this is anywhere close to what happened? Was Dylan in prima dona mode that led him to bolt? Was it something in between?
November 29th, 2020 at 4:42 PM ^
Or something completely other. Let's say DM saw the OL, saw the futility of the season, and decided to concentrate on his academics and a new start. Or, let's say he just didn't get along with the coaches, or had some disagreement that made him feel like he was better suited elsewhere. Or, that he was concerned about COVID-19. CRG seems right, absent specific information, that we have no idea that DM was "run off." Maybe he was. Or maybe he wasn't. Maybe he was a prima donna. Maybe not.
November 29th, 2020 at 9:06 PM ^
He was campaigning to restart the season, in person, just a few days before he chose to transfer.
November 29th, 2020 at 11:19 PM ^
It's one of the many conspiracies that gets thrown around here because "bad things sometimes happen" or "college kids make decisions" are apparently not acceptable answers to some.
We'll likely find out at some point what happened but I'd be amazed if it's particularly satisfying to fans.
November 29th, 2020 at 4:56 PM ^
Looking forward to official Searchbits posts
November 29th, 2020 at 4:58 PM ^
Lance Leopold.
November 29th, 2020 at 5:11 PM ^
Scream if from the mountain tops.
November 29th, 2020 at 5:28 PM ^
Is he better or worse than Lance Leipold?
November 29th, 2020 at 5:37 PM ^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt1V61SPI_w
November 29th, 2020 at 5:51 PM ^
Leopold is a real killer.
Leipold. My bad.
November 29th, 2020 at 8:50 PM ^
Just read up on this guy...he definitely needs to go on the candidate list looks like a guy who is used to winning.
November 29th, 2020 at 5:11 PM ^
Brian’s takes on the coaching search are possibly the worst I’ve ever heard and I’ve consumed an absurd amount of football content, playing D1 (FCS) ball, and dipped a toe in coaching. This dudes level of football knowledge outside of Michigan is trash. I know I’ve been a lurker for a shorter amount of time here but god damn. May as well just pay for the athletic and just follow Seth’s posts. This was a gigantic waste of time. Beyond insufferable, good god.
November 29th, 2020 at 5:14 PM ^
Ok. I’m not disagreeing with, but can you provide your perspective on the coach search?
November 29th, 2020 at 5:50 PM ^
To me, it’s
1.) Campbell - program developer. He’s done the most with the least, he also had success at Toledo. He’s been in charge for a long time. Schematically, like Seth mentions in the episode, they play defense there with lesser talent (historically, he’s been doing better in recruiting lately). That’s huge, to me. If you’re able to play consistent quality defense against nuclear powered offenses thats a huge plus. Offensively, more question marks but he did have good offenses when he was at Toledo and he’s put a few guys in the league (Windy, I’m sure you recognize David Montgomery). People point to the recruiting at Iowa state under him, but a lot of the trajectory with recruits is going to come down to how well he does with Harbaugh’s recruits in his first couple years. He’s also from Ohio and the regionalism you need to sustain and succeed in CFB, as pointed out by ace, is huge.
2.) Leipold - he had to usurp one of the greatest, powerful, and most advantaged football programs in D3 while at Whitewater. Mt. Union was stuff of legend. They were averaging a natty every other year of the course of 2 decades and he leveled Whitewater up. He’s from the Midwest (Wisconsin) which is another plus. He’s had success at Buffalo which was as much of a CFB backwater there has ever been outside of Khalil Mack (still not sure how he ended up there). He’s a program builder, plain and simple. He’d bring a game plan and probably do what we’d hope Harbaugh would do after 2017. Win 10 games, give us a shot against OSU every 3-4 years.
3. Hafley - I get why 11W is scared of us hiring him. He has the keys to the launch codes, he’s vicious and successful on the recruiting trail. He has Boston College playing their best football since Matt Ryan was there. He spent a decade in the league as a position coach so he can attest to player development there too. He’s also from New Jersey which happens to be fertile recruiting ground too. He seems to me the Lincoln Riley defensive equivalent. He’s got a very high football IQ, he’s great at recruiting, and like I said he knows the launch codes. The knock isn’t on the year at OSU, it’s on how long he’d stay if he found success here. He seems like a potential Matt Rhule.
You’ve got to get one of those guys no matter what. You’re not going to steal the former Walk-on from his home school in Jim Leonard (who btw is probably the coach in waiting in Madison anyways). You don’t get a guy who’s got one of the easiest recruiting jobs in CFB because of the LDS factor and the fact he can play 25 year olds in Sitake.
Tom Allen would be the same results as Leipold but a lot more money because of the year they’re having.
Fickell isn’t going to come here. Full stop.
So there are your 3 guys. You have 2 cultural fits, from good trees who know what being a part of a sustainable, successful program looks like. You have one guy who has massive amounts of talent and off the field chops, but isn’t as proven. Either one of those 3 would be the way to go, IMO.
November 29th, 2020 at 5:56 PM ^
So you chastize Brian and then name the three most obvious guys out there. Gotcha.
November 29th, 2020 at 7:23 PM ^
Bules, the man offered Kalani Sitake, as a serious candidate. The guy has instant pipeline via the LDS’s presence in Oceania (American Samoa, Hawaii, etc.), they trot out an average player age of 21.4 years because of the 2 year mission 65% (on average) takes because of their faith. The guy is 34-25 at BYU, who while fun to watch and playing well, plays a Mountain West level schedule on average. But the skepticism is there for a guy who coached in the league for a decade and a guy who built a Death Star and got one of the worst D1 programs to competitive for their division.
There’s plenty qualified and obvious candidates. Doesn’t need to be rocket science.
November 29th, 2020 at 7:58 PM ^
I’d add three more names:
1) Bronco Mendenhal - He has made Virginia a respectable program despite the lack of football history at UVA and the high academic standards. He was better at BYU than their current coach when he was there. He is a consistent winning coach and if he could surround himself with ace recruiters, I think he would win 10+ wins each season with fundamentally sound football. We have the talent, but he’d instill the winning culture of accountability and discipline that’s so needed.
2) Pat Fitzgerald - I think he’s a great coach that has made the most of the limited talent that he can attract at Northwestern. Michigan wouldn’t be a sexy program under him, but he’s another coach that would bring consistent 10+ win seasons. The team would play fundamentally sound football. He would also need to hire some ace recruiters.
3) Chris Peterson - He’s a top 5-6 coach if he wants to get back into the game. He was wildly successful at Boise State and brought Washington to the College Football Playoff. He’d be my number #1 if he was available. He would build a winning culture and make Michigan a regular fixture in the Top 10.
November 30th, 2020 at 12:38 AM ^
Would add a few more names to the list
-Dan Mullen would be my first call. I understand he’s probably unlikely to leave the Swamp but offer him Harbaughs compensation package and need to ask him given his track record.
-Cristobol should be on the list as well for reasons we’ve all gone over.
-Kyle Wittingham. Hes been consistently successful at Utah
- would add Bryan Hardin to the list if he hasn’t been mentioned yet.
- Neal Brown and Billy Napier. Along with Hafkey they’re all a little light on coaching experience Relative to the other names thrown out.
-Joe Moorehead. He’s worth taking a chance; with the right defensive hires he would do well here.
Urban isn’t coming here, neither is Chris Peterson (retired from UW because that place was too much of a grind) or Pat Fitzgerald.
Campbell, Leopold, Hafley, Fickell, Mullen, Cristobal, Wittingham, Harsin, Moorehead, Neal Brown and Billy Napier. Are there others who should be on that list?
Hafleywould be my choice
November 30th, 2020 at 12:57 AM ^
I should add I didn’t include Bronco Mendenhall just out of personal preference (his success at UVA has come at the expense of an incredibly weak ACC), and I don’t think he’s a better coach than Wittingham.
however I could see why Bronco is worth considering/researching
November 29th, 2020 at 9:09 PM ^
-1 for “natty”
November 29th, 2020 at 11:36 PM ^
Hafley would be interesting if a bit of a gamble. I'm not remotely inspired by Campbell, who seems like a solid plugger but not someone who dramatically changes the trajectory of Michigan. I'm sure Leipold is a good coach, but history is littered with guys who failed to make the jump up when the competition got harder. It wouldn't make much sense to take a shot on him especially after Harbaugh.
There is no perfect fit out there, and honestly none of the guys named seem very inspiring. That's a big reason I'm not particularly excited about a coaching transition; you don't need a sure-thing but all the names thrown around are guys with unremarkable resumes, meaningful checkmarks, or clear red flags.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:54 AM ^
Hafley is going to be a rock-star, potential hall of fame coach. But... it might be too early for him to take over a program like UM. He might need a few years at BC to figure some stuff out.
But if I were the AD, I'd swing for the fences with him anyway. Try to run interference for him and shoulder some of the criticism while he comes completely up to speed.
I suspect UM will not do that. I think Hafley winds up being hugely successful at whatever blue blood has a vacancy 3 or 4 years from now.
November 29th, 2020 at 8:32 PM ^
Brian is way too hung up on having a long resume and someone being “worthy” of the Michigan job, possibly because he spent so many years using that argument against obviously terrible Michigan Man candidates with light resumes.
But the reality is, coaches who succeed in college football at major programs rarely have a long head coaching resume. Mack Brown and Urban Meyer are the exceptions to the rule, not the rule. There’s a lot more Barry Switzers and Tom Osbornes and Schnellenbergers and Lincoln Riley’s or Ryan Days and Bob Stoops and Dabo Swinneys who were mostly unknown or had minimal head coach experience before they became legends.
hiring a great head coach is less about looking at a resume and more about having a feel for what your program is and whether a young energetic coach has the ability to fit your program and bring it to the level it needs to be at.
November 30th, 2020 at 6:08 PM ^
Thank you for pointing this out. In the podcast they were dismissive of Hafley because he's only in his first year as a head coach.
But that would be one more year of head coaching experience than Dabo Swinney, Ryan Day, Lincoln Riley, and Kirby Smart had before taking their current jobs, and those guys arguably coach 4 of the 5 best programs in the country.
November 29th, 2020 at 5:48 PM ^
Lmao. Relax. I took a lot of what he said with sarcasm given that there are actually a dearth of experienced options once you’re past Campbell, Fickell...
November 29th, 2020 at 5:54 PM ^
Don’t buy that at all. There are 3 legit guys who aren’t Fickell who would point the ship in the right direction and have success here. The approach to football at Michigan (amongst the fan base and the program itself) is so fucking behind the times it’s insane. You’re positing, that amongst all of the football being played at the FBS/FCS and its orbit that there isn’t one guy after Fickell or Campbell that would have success here and is available?
November 29th, 2020 at 6:05 PM ^
That requires a deep search and taking a risk. Michigan, with the huge losses from the pandemic, may not see itself being in a position to take a significant risk.
November 29th, 2020 at 7:50 PM ^
I really don’t think there’s a candidate out there that ISN’T a significant risk for one reason or another. Even if you go after the “obvious” guys, they all come with their fair share of risks.
I’ll use Matt Campbell as an example since he seems to be the early fan favorite. Let me preface this by saying Campbell IS in my top 3 personal choices (along with Hafley and Bryan Harsin).
33-27 overall record, albeit at a bad football school and have been improving year to year. 0-4 record against his main rival. Big question mark in regards to his recruiting chops, considering he never coached as an assistant at a major program and only has signed four 4* players in his time at Iowa State. Michigan can recruit itself to an extent, but does he have the ability to go head to head regionally against OSU, ND, and PSU for top talent? Not to mention nationally. Something that HAS to be done to truly compete at that next level that Harbaugh couldn’t get us to. Then the fact that the majority of his staff has been with him since his time at Toledo, does he have the connections to piece together an upper level P5 staff or does Michigan roll the dice on an Iowa State staff? Do THEY have the recruiting chops to compete against upper level P5 programs?
Now these are the kinds of questions you can ask with any of these candidates. There really is no clear-cut “this is THE guy” candidate out there. Each and every name that gets brought up comes with risks.
November 29th, 2020 at 9:12 PM ^
Also what does Campbell have to sell when chasing top recruits? He seems more than competent and maybe very good. But he’s not terribly exciting and his offenses aren’t either. I don’t see him suddenly landing stellar recruiting classes. He’d have to do it the slow and steady way.
November 29th, 2020 at 8:33 PM ^
There is also significant risk in doing nothing.
November 30th, 2020 at 7:08 AM ^
”If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”
November 29th, 2020 at 6:56 PM ^
Definitely the first time I've had someone say they're gonna read my posts and ignore Brian. Been a lot of the reverse.
November 29th, 2020 at 7:03 PM ^
You’ve been keeping this MGoShip afloat for quite some time now.
November 29th, 2020 at 7:13 PM ^
Agreed. You seem to be the one keeping this site running, Seth.
November 29th, 2020 at 7:57 PM ^
If it makes you feel better, your decimated defense is one of the things that brought me to Mgoblog.
November 29th, 2020 at 6:04 PM ^
I'd point out to Brian, Ace and Seth, that despite Franklin's awful clock management, Michigan somehow managed to lose to him...
Not to mention, Harbaugh is 3-3 versus Franklin...
November 29th, 2020 at 6:24 PM ^
Havent gotten to the podcast yet but I'd venture to say that's the point - Franklin's game management is arguably a fireable offense itself and he still outcoaches us evenso.
November 29th, 2020 at 6:28 PM ^
Did you miss the part where they discussed Harbaugh’s replacement options?
November 29th, 2020 at 8:54 PM ^
Something's wrong when Mel Tucker can beat Michigan AND a Top 10 team in his first year with less talent than Harbaugh. How the heck does that even happen?
November 29th, 2020 at 9:04 PM ^
He was also outscored 73-7 (or something like that) against Indiana and Iowa the previous two weeks. In case you haven’t noticed, it’s 2020 and weird things are happening across the college football landscape. Not a whole lot is making sense.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:58 PM ^
Top 10 team is a funny way to say NW that went 3-9 last year
November 29th, 2020 at 11:42 PM ^
I'm a little done with the re-imaging of Joe Milton's past couple of games. He didn't have a particularly good game against MSU or Indiana, was awful against Wisconsin and Rutgers, and was 1/3 against PSU with his 1 basically being a short toss to Bell who turned it into 21 yards. His other two throws were both really off AND really easy ones to complete; I can absolutely see why the coaches figured a broken Cade McNamara was still a better option.
Again, this is not to slag on Milton who has made strides as a player, but we've all watched these games.
November 30th, 2020 at 12:22 AM ^
Maybe this is just me, but why can’t anyone see there’s more to it than a head coach? As I’ve stressed before, it’s the culture...
Is Ryan Day a good coach? Absolutely. But he had a culture where OSU is humming along great after Urban, and they just needed to plug and play a guy that was above average. Did they get lucky and maybe he’s even better than that? Possibly the case too.
What I’m getting at is it’s chicken or the egg - you need a head coach to inspire a change and catalyze a program, but once that identity is in place like it is at OSU and Bama and Clemson, I wouldn’t be surprised if these teams keep humming along at above average levels years after Saban or Dabo are gone, because they’ve built up the system.
We do need that head coach to establish a program’s identity, but I fear with the AD and regents and people who make the athletic decisions (ahem - Lloyd influencing Rich Rod’s tenure) being more concerned about how Michigan manages the pandemic than they are with winning, our mediocrity will continue ad Infinitum.
Just my $0.02.
November 30th, 2020 at 10:05 AM ^
Thing about a coach like Campbell looking good on paper is that RichRod and Hoke had success at smaller programs as well.
Michigan is in a weird spot because it's a hell job. There's still some institutional arrogance but I think it's overstated after the RichRod/Hoke years humbled most fans. The external factors, on the other hand, are in plain view of every HC out there. You've got resources but the program hasn't been elite in a generation and yet everyone's still gunning for it. The NCAA hates Michigan. The B1G hates Michigan. More programs hate Michigan, on a frenzied level, than any other. Ohio State is on another level and still practices throughout the season just for Michigan. Harbaugh was the best possible cultural fit and the job broke him.
Is there anyone in the country that can handle this job? I don't know. Campbell might be good, but I don't know if there's a coach in the country that can handle the scrutiny and seething hatred that's heaped upon the program.
November 30th, 2020 at 12:00 PM ^
While I don't know that fans around the country hate Michigan any more than they might hate some other supposedly blue blood programs, your point about the Michigan head coaching job being hell is well taken. Despite 20+ years of underperformance, our history as the 'all-time winningest program' creates unrealistic expectations. And FWIW I disagree with you that we are less arrogant than before; although we should be more humble, I don't think that we are. I choose to believe that we continue to try and compete for Big 10 and National Championships without offering bags of cash or similar illicit goodies to recruits. Maybe I'm naive about that but it seems pretty clear that many or perhaps most of the other top programs do those things. If we are trying to do things the right way--which I suspect most of us believe we should--then we're competing on the proverbial uneven playing field. Finding the right head coach is enormously difficult in any case--look at what's happened at Nebraska, Texas, USC, and even Alabama before Saban. There are innumerable obstacles in the way of consistent success on a national level, and on top of that Michigan expects their players to take their academics seriously. If Harbaugh leaves, and I for one think he will after this season is over, the next coach faces an enormous challenge, as hard or perhaps more so than at any other school in the country.
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