Much more that 16 than the other 16.

Hello: Jayden Denegal Comment Count

Seth June 24th, 2021 at 12:24 PM

Michigan got a quarterback commit from California. No, not that one—Maalik Murphy wasn't going to be in the class right after JJ McCarthy. Not AJ Duffy, the IMG kid McCarthy pushed aside. Nor is it Nate Johnson, the QB they were zeroed in on until he suddenly committed to Utah. And not the 4-star Cal commit we’ve been talking about—Justyn Martin has a new crystal ball from an Ole Miss guy but otherwise hasn’t moved. And no, it's not that Boise State commit, Katin Houser, that MSU is recruiting hard and I wanted Michigan to take a look at. But this guy was an MSU target as well, and also ranked above Houser, barely.

GURU RATINGS

Rivals ESPN 247 247 Comp
3*, 5.7, NR Ovr,
#19 Pro, #26 CA
4*, 83, #163 Ovr,
#9 Pro, #17 West, #11 CA
3*, 89, #330 Ovr
#17 QB, #34 CA
4*, .9045, #267 Ovr,
#19 QB, #19 CA
3.91 4.38 3.97 4.05

That averages out to a 4.02 on my scale, placing him below Cade McNamara (4.11) and Joe Milton (4.10), and just above Nate Holdren (4.07), Alex Malzone (4.07), and John Navarre (4.04). Like Milton, ESPN is much higher on him than the other two services, which is usually a bad sign.*

Denegal started out among the cycle’s national elites, but by the time the QB dominoes began falling last spring, he was suspiciously absent from the conversation. Last April 24/7 dropped him from a 90 (4-star) to an 89. Michigan, who'd been focused on Nate Johnson since the dominoes, suddenly expanded its board in June. They caught Denegal in a camp, had him and his dad up for an unofficial visit and throwing session, offered, and Denegal accepted just like that. Word is Michigan State isn't all that upset about it.

There's probably a good reason for all the falling rankings at the two sites that do reevaluations. It's probably the reason it looks like on the surface. It might also have something to do with ESPN saying he’s 6-5/230, while the other two sites agree on 6-4/215, while insiders report he was playing an unsanctioned club football season closer to 240.

*[I had to go through 15 guys ESPN was most bullish on relative to the other two services before I found one—Josh Metellus—where they were right.]

[Hit THE JUMP for scouting, video, and the rest.]

SCOUTING

I kind of want to do this chronologically, if you’ll bear with me through the epic. As of February 24, 2020, Denegal was a fixture at every Western QB event, and drew plenty of attention at the Pylon 7v7 championship, as well as offers from Georgia, Utah, Arkansas, and Colorado, to go with the one from Auburn, his first. He was making some kid Cristian Dixon look really good.

As the class rankings solidified a few weeks later, Denegal was a top-250 player, the #11 QB, and 229th overall to 24/7, who described him as “a big pocket passer with the ability to make downfield throws off of play action and designed rollouts.”

He shot up considerably from there. By last September he was a top-100 prospect, 90th overall, and talking about Arkansas and Michigan State showing him love, though the Spartisans were wary of Utah because Denegal’s brother went there.

The 6-foot-4, 215-pound Denegal describes himself as: "A pocket passer but I can take off."

He was the last guy mentioned out of 17 after the Elite 11 Regional in El Camino, CA last November:

Big bodied signal caller who can get the ball down the field and throws the deep ball with touch and accuracy as well. '

Denegal’s quarterback trainer Danny Hernandez, who has relationships with Gattis and Weiss, described his trainee’s weird junior season, or seasons, because Denegal was winning more California titles per year than any guy since Stanford, San Jose State, and Lowell High School won their respective championships with the same head coach in 1900.

"This is a weird offseason with COVID. He had a successful season. He played in a rogue spring league and went undefeated. Once they started playing in California, he led his team to an undefeated season as well."

EJ Holland shared Denegal played that season “north of 230 pounds” (video) according to EJ Holland:

Everyone’s talking about him being a high ceiling guy, but he also has a high floor. He trains with Danny Hernandez who’s one of the top quarterback trainers in the country, so mechanically he’s fine. He has the big arm. He’s a guy that has a high IQ; he’s going to be a contributor to the quarterback room in general. Michigan wanted an upside prospect with an appealing athletic profile, and that’s, for the most part, what they got in Denegal.

In March the dominoes began to fall. Before the end of the month, 15 of the top 20 quarterbacks in the country were off the board and Denegal was now now the #11 pro-style and #264 overall to 24/7. The rest were guys with questionable offers, like the top-100 QB from Kentucky who’s going to Rutgers. By April Denegal was the #12 Pro-style, #18 QB overall, on the edge of falling out of the top 250, and had some crystal balls to Michigan State. This evaluation by UCLA’s “BRO STAFF” after a workout with the Bruins is enlightening:

Denegal has the frame of a prototypical pocket quarterback, with wide shoulders and a sturdy base. He showed an inconsistent delivery throughout the day, and it was noticeable how far he would cock the ball behind his head as part of his elongated throwing motion. Denegal looked flat-footed at times during the footwork drills and when taking drops, and struggled to find his balance and throw off his front foot when on the move. This inconsistency continued during the one-on-ones, as he was able to connect on some shorter passes but nearly had one deep throw intercepted after underthrowing his receiver.

Earlier this month he hit up a 24/7 camp in LA and finished just outside the top ring:

Jayden Denegal, '22, Apple Valley (Calif.) had a good day and just missed making our top five. Physically, he has leaned out and dropped over 10 pounds since last year and physically looks good. He's a very consistent thrower, accurate down the field and threw one of the best deep balls in the camp. He just threw for UCLA and heads to the MW tonight and will camp with Northwestern and Michigan early this week.

Alpha dog was a soft Boise State commit that MSU is looking at, followed by Texas commit Maalik Murphy and Nate Johnson, then two 5-11 guys and an Oregon State commit. Denegal did not make the Elite 11 finals roster.

UCLA’s 24/7 guy Tracy Pierson elaborated($):

We were told that Denegal measured at 6-5 recently. To his credit, he's improved his body in the last year, trimming some weight, going from 225-ish to a much better-looking 215-ish now. The thinner Denegal moves easier than he used to, clearly, so the weight loss helped. He's still on the thicker side

Denegal's motion is a longer one, with him taking the ball back pretty far and taking a little longer to come out of his hand. It's not a quick release, while it is smooth and seamless. He throws a nice ball, spins it well, and showed nice accuracy Sunday and a catchability to his throws. He does tend to release the ball a little early his motion at times, which can make the ball sail a little once in a while. His arm strength is good -- on the higher end -- while he showed nice touch and feel for when to take something off. In going through cones, he showed some improvement in his agility, but he's still not greatly quick. His action from when he takes a snap and gets the ball off -- with the slightly slower feet and the long motion -- takes some time. But he seems more agile and quicker being slimmer now.

And this came with video:

Recently he threw for the Michigan coaches, first Matt Weiss at the Redlands camp, then Jim Harbaugh in Ann Arbor, with a session in East Lansing the day before. Holland admits Denegal “didn’t have many options to choose from outside of Michigan.”

24/7’s Western analyst Greg Biggens offered his analysis:

Denegal is a pure pocket passer with a nice natural feel for the position. He understands throwing with timing and anticipation. He’s able to change speeds, shows touch and is one of the more accurate quarterbacks in the region. He’s been one of the state’s most productive quarterbacks since his sophomore year and is little better athlete then given credit for. He’s not a super twitchy kid but isn’t a statue either. He has good arm strength, can get the ball down the field and has improved mechanically in getting the ball out quicker with less of a windup. He’s a 4.0 student off the field and shows a cerebral nature between the lines as well. He’s someone we think can come in and pickup a complex playbook quicker then the majority of incoming quarterbacks. He’s a worker who spends a ton of time on his game and we have seen the improvements, even in the last few months.

He later added Denegal has huge hands before sharing the thoughts of QB coach Danny Hernandez:

"He had an up and down junior year but has really come on and I like the changes he has made to his body and you're seeing him play with a lot more suddenness right now. He's a pure thrower and he's a really smart kid. He's a 4.0 student and has football intelligence too. He can pick up things quickly and I think he's a kid who will go in to a college, learn the playbook quickly and be ready to compete right away."

Rivals EJ Holland also spoke to Hernandez about what Michigan saw($):

"He played this last season too heavy. He played at 227. At that weight, he lost his twitch and explosion. We've focused on slimming down. He's at 213 right now. His body looks good. His throws are cleaner. This offseason, a big focus will be getting more twitchy and sudden. He has a big arm and is smart, so we're trying to add athleticism while staying mechanically sound. That's the goal."

Areas for improvement were mobility, tightening that release, speeding everything up, and losing more weight.

HIGH SCHOOL

Denegal is the only 3*+ in the Rivals era to come from Apple Valley, a desert town on the opposite side of the mountains from Los Angeles proper. If you were the kind of idiot who rented a Tesla to drive from Pasadena to Vegas, you might end up that way by thinking a road called “Happy Trails Highway” will take you to a charging station. Just, you know, hypothetically. Not even a person named Jason could be that dumb.

Other "Team Dime LA” quarterbacks to work with Hernandez since he got his program underway a few years ago include PSU’s Micah Bowens, and Ryan Hilinski, the South Carolina transfer who’s probably going to start at Northwestern this year.

The “rogue league” was called the Champions League club tackle football league, and the inaugural championship went to double overtime.

STATS

Denegal's junior stats are harder to come by but he reportedly threw for 2,260 yards (11.5 yards per attempt) and 34 touchdowns against eight interceptions as a sophomore. Needless to say we'll be keeping an eye on his senior year production.

FAKE 40 TIME

His Hudl page lists a 4.9, which is probably however many seconds this is:

I’m just guessing, but it gets FIVE fakes out of five because I've seen the footage, and the first rule in fudgy stats is a ".9" means they want your brain to consider the first digit and pay no attention to the rest.

VIDEO

This is a reel from the Champions League:

Single game reels and a few more muti-game ones, plus his junior and sophomore Apple Valley highlights are on his Hudl page.

ETC

Owns a baby tortoise, who will probably outlive all of us.

PREDICTION BASED ON FLIMSY EVIDENCE

Five-star quarterback recruits tend to cast a shadow, at least here. After Drew Henson committed they settled for John Navarre and Andy Mignery in the class after, and Jermaine Gonzalez in the class after that. Henne was followed by Antonio Bass, whom we planned to move to receiver, and 3-star Jason Forcier, with David Cone the class after that. Before the whole Rich Rod thing went down, Ryan Mallett’s shadow begat John Weinke and Georgia Tech transfer Steven Threet. Shane Morris committed so early to the class of 2013 he cast a shadow in 2012, and three-star Wilton Speight was lined up for the class after him.

That’s what we’re doing here. Sometimes you need a polished guy with a great smile in hopes he can put your program on its back, and sometimes you need a good solid fellow behind him you can trust to do the thing he does well.

The funny (not funny) thing is the guys who committed in the shadow of a five-star often found tons of playing time available. Things happen in football, way too quickly for you to guess what the future beholds based on something as ephemeral as the current depth chart. One minute you're fighting with Mignery to be the redshirt freshman who gets to sit behind Drew Henson until they bring in the next Henson to compete for your job in 2002. The next, Henson is hobbling into Pizza Bob's on crutches wearing a Yankees workout shirt while you're standing in the middle of the Rose Bowl trying to lead a comeback. Life comes at you fast, especially when you live in Michigan's quarterbacks room.

Michigan was circling in on Nate Johnson this class after a lot of other targets went off the board, but wasn't willing to do whatever Utah was to seal it. I loved the Johnson offer because of the positional flexibility and the Denard things. Remaining options were prying Justyn Martin out of a Cal commitment, or the academically minded Alabama kid, Conner Harrell, who's been talking to UNC much longer. In this case I believe the Spartans who said they cooled on Denegal, because the other schools did too, and as much as we make fun of them, if this was a guy Mel Tucker wanted for the centerpiece of his class I think Denegal wouldn't be committing on the offer from Michigan. I don’t know what Michigan's thinking was exactly, but I have a pretty good guess that the coaches decided they needed a guy who’ll stick around and be a backup for awhile in case they need a guy to not be a backup.

Those searching for a reason to keep calling him a 4-star are focusing on the recent weight loss, but I'm too well versed in my FQB history to think that would be an issue unless the guy is literally Jared Lorenzen. Belleville's quarterback I would believe it. But Denegal is a Navarre. A Speight. A guy who gets half-disparaging remarks in preview magazines for a few years until you’ve convinced yourself you’re dead meat if they get to him, and then it turns out he’s kind of alright. Navarre is the closer comparison when we’re talking about long windups and no mobility, but an accurate hose and the right brain and demeanor to use it appropriately…eventually. Like Navarre, he's deliberate, understated, and intelligent. He's probably not going to game you to wins on his own, but (as long as you don't throw him against UCLA in year 2) also the type who won't lose you games. If you surround that guy with a lot of talent he will let you access it, the way Navarre's brain allowed them to run Air Raid "sight reads" (option routes) to great effect with Braylon Edwards and Jason Avant. The dumb fans who blamed Navarre for not being Henson tragically became a part of Navarre's story as well. They were also blaming the last non-Denard quarterback to lead Michigan to a win over Ohio State, and last non-Henne to win the Big Ten.

Speight is a good comp too because neither he nor Denegal is trying to put a hole in his receivers' chests. Worst case scenario you get David Cone, whom nobody who reads this blog will complain about. Best case scenario, you’ve got a smart, developmental California quarterback who won't be scrolling through other FBS teams' depth charts when he finds himself sitting between a third-year McCarthy and (Denard willing) true freshman Dante Moore in a few years.

UPSHOT FOR THE REST OF THE CLASS

They could take another quarterback with different skills but they’re probably going to rest here and focus on the rest of their targets. They’ll also keep up pursuit of their 2023 whale, 5-star Detroit King QB Dante Moore, who already knows Denegal well from the QB circuit. Michigan’s also upped their California presence since bringing back Courtney Morgan, and have lately been trying to move up in the eyes of San Diego CB Jahlil Florence and ATH Jalil Tucker, while staying in contact for some Southern California elites in 2023.

Comments

Wallaby Court

June 24th, 2021 at 1:33 PM ^

Based on Seth's write-up, the scouting does not match the ranking. This could be another effect of a COVID-mangled scouting and recruiting season. In normal years, a lot recruits would climb the rankings later in the cycle as their film circulates and the recruiting industry gets more data. Guys that started as unrated three-stars can turn into highly ranked four-stars. On the flip side, recruits that started high in the rankings start falling because their new film does not show any progress or because they lag in comparison to the late risers.

But because of last year's weirdness, recruiting services have not enjoyed their ordinary buffet of film, camps, and in-person evaluations. I suspect that the net result will be stickier recruiting rankings. Late bloomers will stay more hidden and early favorites will cling tighter to their original rankings.

We all got excited by Aaron Alexander and CJ Stokes because it seemed like Michigan might have found some late risers. Jayden Denegal could be the flip side.

Indiana Blue

June 24th, 2021 at 4:29 PM ^

I'm tending to discount Seth's ratings (and inferences) due to his "MCS" (Matt Campbell Syndrome).  I've also totally erased COVID FOOTBALL from my system, which hasn't occurred on MGo yet ... so I'm very excited that REAL football returns in September.  Naming every other California potential recruit prior to focusing on Jayden was unnecessary and was "woe is me" writing.

Welcome to Michigan Mr. Denegal !

Go Blue!

schreibee

June 24th, 2021 at 4:51 PM ^

Good God Vic, could Seth have been any clearer?!

A very reasonable comp is a QB who beat osu, won the B10, went to the Rose, led 1 of Michigan's greatest comebacks ever (even catching a TD pass in the process!)

In other words, you should expect a guy we all hope never starts a game & who we heap with disrespect for being good enough to accomplish all those things yet not good enough to win a NC (remember when that was our expectation?!)

Got it?!

teldar

June 25th, 2021 at 8:09 AM ^

Probably as perfect response. I would be ecstatic if he were Navarre. Navarre held the school passing yards record. He won a lot of games. He was a very solid college QB. If Michigan's floor for qb was Navarre for the next 5 years, it would be a complete 180 from the continuous incompetence we've been seeing. I'd have taken Navarre over every qb Harbaugh has had. 

Joby

June 24th, 2021 at 7:05 PM ^

I strongly agree. Definitely some technical flaws (front foot thrower, looping release), but he had a 4:1 TD:INT ratio. That is excellent, even for HS. And I’ll take a 4.0 GPA kid with Milton’s frame and Henne’s accuracy at QB all day (and twice on fall Saturdays). At worst, if he sticks, he’s a high-floor backup who makes the program proud. 

BursleysFinest

June 24th, 2021 at 1:33 PM ^

1. Let's go Blue!! good choices Jayden.

2. With the speedy, YAC getting receivers we're recruiting lately, an accurate QB with touch (mobility not withstanding), would do us just fine.

bronxblue

June 24th, 2021 at 1:50 PM ^

This reads like a fair enough analysis (though I do think the actual comments from scouts point to a perfectly fine college football QB, not the Island of Misfit Toys-esque characterization that seems to be the theme here), but I don't mind him as the guy you take a swing at.  This site spent millions of 1's and 0's trying to convince us all that a guy from a small-ish town who couldn't complete 50% of his passes in HS but was a big guy with okay athleticism was a diamond in the rough, yet Denegal sounds like a perfectly competent QB who can read a playbook and execute effectively and that's probably what this team needs as a backup option.  Again, credit to Milton for getting to where he was at the beginning of last year but his ranking felt based way more on potential as an NFL guy while Denegal's ranking feels more like a decent college QB.  The Navarre comparison feels apt on that point.

I also more generally don't worry about QB recruiting because of the transfer portal; there are at least 100 QBs in the transfer portal this season and so if you really don't like the depth on your roster you can probably find a guy with a decent floor from that group if necessary.  

njvictor

June 24th, 2021 at 2:33 PM ^

This site spent millions of 1's and 0's trying to convince us all that a guy from a small-ish town who couldn't complete 50% of his passes in HS but was a big guy with okay athleticism was a diamond in the rough, yet Denegal sounds like a perfectly competent QB who can read a playbook and execute effectively

I mean take a look at Milton's HS film and Denegal's HS film. They're not remotely similar. There was a reason people were super excited about Milton's potential

bronxblue

June 24th, 2021 at 3:10 PM ^

No, I saw both of their films.  Milton had a live arm but I was never as blown away with his potential as others because at the end of the day I saw a guy who had mediocre mechanics and not-great vision trying to throw the ball through defenders to his receivers.  He felt not unlike a prospect who can hit mammoth HRs but also hit .230.  That's basically what his Hello post said.

I've heard all the reasons why he struggled being accurate in HS (poor talent around him, poor coaching, etc.), but he was also playing in a not-great league around Orlando and even a lot of his highlights in HS film looked like they relied as much on his receivers picking up YAC as good throws in traffic and in stride.  Credit to him getting to being a P5-level QB from that start, but even before his finger injury I thought he struggled as defenses got better at taking away his first options and his escape lanes.  Maybe he bounces back at Tennessee under Huepel and does well; I hope he does because I harbor no ill will toward him.  

Again, I don't think Denegal is a future star; he looks like a project who turns into a serviceable upper-classmen QB.  A Navarre/Speight type is the ceiling, and that's not bad.  People get "excited" for guys with raw tools because there's a perception that those tools will be harnessed only for good when in fact most guys who have fatal flaws (in this case, accuracy) but potential wind up as ... guys with fatal flaws and potential.  Shane Morris comes to mind as a similar player, though with better HS stats, who had a lot of raw talent but struggled to put it all together.

Quailman

June 24th, 2021 at 2:16 PM ^

"That averages out to a 4.02 on my scale, placing him below Cade McNamara (4.11) and Joe Milton (4.10), and just above Nate Holdren (4.07), Alex Malzone (4.07), and John Navarre (4.04)"

Anyone else super confused by this? How is a 4.02 above a 4.07 or 4.04? What am I not understanding? 

Blue Vet

June 24th, 2021 at 2:30 PM ^

Info and clever: two mints in one.

Thanks, Seth.

P. S. Congratulations on your blazing speed. Based on your account I give it 1 Fakes out of 5.

Totally2

June 24th, 2021 at 3:03 PM ^

Welcome Jayden Denegal!

This QB is talented, smart, hard working, a winner... and as busy as he is, he's getting down and dirty for tortoise housing upgrades. Hey, even that he has a tortoise... I've found that generally, people engaged with animals people are high quality people. (Interviewed a few prominent ones.) 

Major Props All Around Jayden. Go get 'em man...

dragonchild

June 24th, 2021 at 3:13 PM ^

I loved the Johnson because of the positional flexibility

Nothing wrong with that. No, the only thing wrong here is the phrasing. Phrasing, and relevance to football — two things.

m9tt

June 24th, 2021 at 3:28 PM ^

I don't understand the appeal of an immobile QB, especially as a developmental prospect.  

Fingers crossed that Jayden proves me to be very, very wrong.

ERdocLSA2004

June 24th, 2021 at 4:30 PM ^

Immobile?  Seems a bit harsh.  I could refer you to either the most recent CFP winning qb, or the most recent super bowl winning qb.  This kid isn’t being recruited to replace or surpass our current QBs.  How long do you think a 5* would hang out on our roster behind JJ?  He’s basically being recruited to be a reliable backup.

Magnus

June 24th, 2021 at 5:24 PM ^

I think that's kind of the point. You're not going to get a 5-star, so take an athlete.

Alabama can win with mobile QB's and immobile QB's, because there's so much talent around him. Mac Jones didn't NEED to be mobile to be successful. Having a mobile QB is an equalizer for offenses when you can't run the ball organically or create mismatches/get guys open in the passing game.

bronxblue

June 24th, 2021 at 6:12 PM ^

Comparing any situation to Alabama is almost always going to lead to outlier results.  Alabama has won national titles with Blake Sims, Jake Coker, and AJ McCarron, amongst others.  But mobile QBs who can't throw the ball don't "equalize" nearly as much anymore, at least against the better defenses in the league.  Having a QB who can run a but but struggles to throw the ball is a recipe for stalled drives and turnovers at least as much as people assume an "immobile" QB is.  If your offense struggles to get guys open in the passing game that's an indictment of the talent around the QB as much as the QB himself, and if given a chance I'd rather get a guy who can throw the ball accurately to my athletes out in space versus hoping to beat a DE or LB to the edge 12 times a game.YMMV but there's no reason to believe that Denegal can't get a little faster after being in a college S&C program and be a decent threat to pick up a couple of yards if given to him.  I mean, that was sort of the goal with Milton last year.

And of the list of comps listed by Seth, John Navarre and Wilton Speight aren't the worst ceilings for a guy; I'd have taken the first years of Speight or Navarre over what we saw the past couple of years at QB.  

Magnus

June 26th, 2021 at 12:46 PM ^

A team with Michigan's talent (right now) is not going to win at an appreciable level without a QB who can tuck it and run. Michigan doesn't have the OL or receivers to have an immobile QB behind center.

Sure, we can have a Speight- or Navarre-like QB and he can do okay if all you want is an 8-4 or 9-3 season. But Michigan isn't going to be a threat to beat the big boys, because the pass rush is going to overcome the OL, and they can't even be kept honest by the threat of Navarre/Speight running.

bronxblue

June 26th, 2021 at 3:53 PM ^

But they had a threat of a running QB with Shea only 2 years ago and the offense finished with SP+ efficiency rankings of 35.5 (2018) and 35.7(2019).  With Speight at the helm in 2017 the offense was 34.8.  We're talking less than a point difference and I'd argue the offensive line Speight played behind was worse than the one Patterson played behind.  But even ignoring that we're talking about less than a point, and with Patterson you're also talking about a guy who was pretty accurate at least in his first year.  

Michigan isn't going to be a threat to any of the big boys for reasons far beyond QB play, and taking an athletic 3* guy who you hope turns into a serviceable passer vs. a 3* reasonably accurate passer with limited athleticism doesn't read like a noticeable difference to me when it comes to reaching that echelon.  

I am curious who you'd want UM to get instead of Denegal in this case.  I don't follow recruiting deep enough to know who they possibly passed on here.

byrd390

June 24th, 2021 at 4:38 PM ^

A 6'-5" 230# pro-style quarterback with a 4.0 GPA? That sure seems like a good thing to me. Welcome to the family Jayden and thanks for choosing the University of Michigan!