offer coming in a month, most likely
Fall Roster Overanalysis
In the spring I combed through the roster for weight changes in an effort to read the portents included therein. Today, on National Overreact To A Tiny Slice Of Information Day, we return to the Ouija board.
Unfortunately, the spring roster has been obliterated in favor of the official fall roster so I can only do the full comparison on players whose weight changes from fall 2009 to spring 2010 were deemed "significant." I do have the previous fall roster and have included any players of note from that; anyone who didn't appear in the last edition was one or two pounds off.
Presenting MANY NUMBERS. Projected starters are in bold; I didn't bother trying to guess at QB and RB:
| QB | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Player | 2009 | Spring | 2010 | Fall to Spring | Spring To Fall | 2009 to 2010 |
| Denard Robinson | 185 | -- | 193 | -- | -- | 8 |
| Tate Forcier | 188 | 194 | 192 | 6 | -2 | 4 |
| RUNNING BACK | ||||||
| Player | 2009 | Spring | 2010 | Fall to Spring | Spring To Fall | 2009 to 2010 |
| John McColgan | 227 | -- | 231 | -- | -- | 4 |
| Fitzgerald Toussaint | 185 | -- | 200 | -- | -- | 15 |
| Michael Cox | 208 | -- | 211 | -- | -- | 3 |
| Michael Shaw | 178 | -- | 187 | -- | -- | 9 |
| Vincent Smith | 168 | -- | 180 | -- | -- | 12 |
| WIDE RECEIVER | ||||||
| Player | 2009 | Spring | 2010 | Fall to Spring | Spring To Fall | 2009 to 2010 |
| Junior Hemingway | 220 | 227 | 225 | 7 | -2 | 5 |
| Darryl Stonum | 196 | 193 | 195 | -3 | 2 | -1 |
| Je'Ron Stokes | 181 | 187 | 193 | 6 | 6 | 12 |
| Jeremy Gallon | 165 | 171 | 180 | 6 | 9 | 15 |
| Kelvin Grady | 168 | -- | 176 | -- | -- | 8 |
| Martavious Odoms | 172 | -- | 175 | -- | -- | 3 |
| Roy Roundtree | 170 | 169 | 176 | -1 | 7 | 6 |
| Terrence Robinson | 171 | -- | 175 | -- | -- | 4 |
| TIGHT END | ||||||
| Player | 2009 | Spring | 2010 | Fall to Spring | Spring To Fall | 2009 to 2010 |
| Kevin Koger | 249 | -- | 255 | -- | -- | 6 |
| Martell Webb | 245 | 257 | 255 | 12 | -2 | 10 |
| Brandon Moore | 243 | 260 | 250 | 17 | -10 | 7 |
| OFFENSIVE LINE | ||||||
| Player | 2009 | Spring | 2010 | Fall to Spring | Spring To Fall | 2009 to 2010 |
| Mark Huyge | 288 | 305 | 306 | 17 | 1 | 18 |
| Michael Schofield | 268 | 281 | 293 | 13 | 12 | 25 |
| Quinton Washington | 325 | 307 | 315 | -18 | 8 | -10 |
| Ricky Barnum | 275 | 282 | 286 | 7 | 4 | 11 |
| Rocko Khoury | 283 | 291 | 295 | 8 | 4 | 12 |
| Taylor Lewan | 268 | 283 | 294 | 15 | 11 | 26 |
| David Molk | 275 | 270 | 285 | -5 | 15 | 10 |
| Elliott Mealer | 299 | 310 | 313 | 11 | 3 | 14 |
| Stephen Schilling | 304 | -- | 308 | -- | -- | 4 |
| John Ferrara | 279 | -- | 286 | -- | -- | 7 |
| Patrick Omameh | 276 | 293 | 299 | 17 | 6 | 23 |
| Perry Dorrestein | 306 | -- | 321 | -- | -- | 15 |
| DEFENSIVE LINE | ||||||
| Player | 2009 | Spring | 2010 | Fall to Spring | Spring To Fall | 2009 to 2010 |
| Adam Patterson | 263 | 272 | 276 | 9 | 4 | 13 |
| Anthony LaLota | 256 | 263 | 270 | 7 | 7 | 14 |
| Greg Banks | 266 | 274 | 285 | 8 | 11 | 19 |
| Craig Roh | 238 | 249 | 251 | 11 | 2 | 13 |
| Will Heininger | 261 | 271 | 267 | 10 | -4 | 6 |
| William Campbell | 318 | 324 | 333 | 6 | 9 | 15 |
| Ryan Van Bergen | 271 | 280 | 283 | 9 | 3 | 12 |
| Steve Watson | 257 | -- | 268 | -- | -- | 11 |
| Mike Martin | 292 | -- | 299 | -- | -- | 7 |
| Renaldo Sagesse | 279 | 285 | 289 | 6 | 4 | 10 |
| LINEBACKER | ||||||
| Player | 2009 | Spring | 2010 | Fall to Spring | Spring To Fall | 2009 to 2010 |
| Brandon Herron | 220 | -- | 220 | -- | -- | 0 |
| Isaiah Bell | 220 | 237 | 245 | 17 | 8 | 25 |
| J.B. Fitzgerald | 232 | 239 | 244 | 7 | 5 | 12 |
| Kenny Demens | 236 | 244 | 250 | 8 | 6 | 14 |
| Jonas Mouton | 228 | -- | 240 | -- | -- | 12 |
| Kevin Leach | 206 | 200 | 205 | -6 | 5 | -1 |
| Mark Moundros | 233 | -- | 233 | -- | -- | 0 |
| Mike Jones | 203 | 207 | 208 | 4 | 1 | 5 |
| Obi Ezeh | 243 | 240 | 250 | -3 | 10 | 7 |
| CORNERBACK | ||||||
| Player | 2009 | Spring | 2010 | Fall to Spring | Spring To Fall | 2009 to 2010 |
| J.T. Floyd | 183 | -- | 183 | -- | -- | 0 |
| J.T. Turner | 187 | 197 | 198 | 10 | 1 | 11 |
| Troy Woolfolk | 193 | -- | 195 | -- | -- | 2 |
| James Rogers | 182 | -- | 183 | -- | -- | 1 |
| SAFETY | ||||||
| Player | 2009 | Spring | 2010 | Fall to Spring | Spring To Fall | 2009 to 2010 |
| Brandin Hawthorne | 198 | -- | 203 | -- | -- | 5 |
| Floyd Simmons | 185 | -- | 200 | -- | -- | 15 |
| Jordan Kovacs | 194 | 200 | 195 | 6 | -5 | 1 |
| Cameron Gordon | 208 | -- | 207 | -- | -- | -1 |
| Mike Williams | 188 | -- | 200 | -- | -- | 12 |
| Teric Jones | 193 | -- | 195 | -- | -- | 2 |
| Thomas Gordon | 205 | -- | 205 | -- | -- | 0 |
| Vladimir Emilien | 198 | -- | 204 | -- | -- | 6 |
Bullets on the contents herein:
- Holy productive summer (and previous fall), offensive line. Molk bounced back from his injury-caused loss and is now at a respectable 285. The kids, meanwhile, are all pushing 300 after coming in significantly smaller than that. They're still a little light in the shorts, but they'll be significantly bigger than they were a year ago.
- Similarly, the front seven is going to be a lot bigger even if it's Greg Banks taking over for Brandon Graham. The three returning starters put on an average of 11 pounds and Banks is 17 pounds heavier than Graham was. Not that anyone's happy about losing Graham. The linebackers, meanwhile, are all up significantly, with Isaiah Bell well on his way to becoming his own country.
- Jeremy Gallon wins the Biggest Anti-Loser award for gaining more weight as a percentage of his starting weight than anyone else.
- Fitzgerald Toussaint and Vincent Smith are getting up there for guys their size; hopefully they'll have the durability to last after putting on 15 and 12 pounds, respectively.
- Turners extra 11 pounds may be the reason he's stuck behind Floyd.
- The beefy tight ends must have been a bit too beefy; they've started backing down.
- Not sure what to make of Quinton Washington and Will Campbell going back up after freshman years spent shedding weight. Similarly, Perry Dorrestein's 321 seems too heavy, especially for a guy who had plenty of trouble pass blocking last year and is trying to lock down the left tackle job. The other seniors-to be put on a few pounds here and there; Dorrestein's 15 is out of proportion. The Lewan-Dorrestein battle may be over before it even starts.
- All college teams increase the size of their players year-to-year but if I had to bet, Michigan's has to be near the top in terms of beef added on. A symptom of youth.
August 10th, 2010 at 2:44 PM | 
A couple more quick bullets:
A couple more quick bullets:
August 10th, 2010 at 2:52 PM |
O-Line / running backs
O-Line / running backs
Our O-line is significanty more beefcake than it was last year. With the exception of Molk (who I do not have ANY concerns about, barring injury), we we have 2 guys just under 300 and 2 guys just over.
How does this compare to the bohemeths at Wisco and OSU?
Also, on the running backs, I am concerned about some of our wee little guys putting on so much weight. Hope this doesn't affect their speed / agility.
Oh, also, EEeeeeeee, Barwis.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:43 PM |
UW, OSU and Nebraska
UW, OSU and Nebraska
Source is msg board post.
Wisconsin
...only one of their offensive linemen (a RFr) weighed in at less than 300 pounds at 272 lbs. The maximum weight on the line is 350 lbs. With 18 total offensive linemen on their roster, the total weight is 5,745 lbs with an average weight of 319.16 lbs.
Nebraska
...have 26 total OLinemen on the roster, with a combined weight of 7,665 lbs. The average weight, however, is 294.81 lbs. We have 15 players below 300, a minimum weight of 260, and a maximum of 325.
OSU
...have 17 OLinemen on their roster with a combined weight of 4,990 lbs, a minimum of 234 and a maxiumum of 321. tOSU's average weight is 293.52 lbs. So out of the 3, they have the least depth based on numbers, AND the lightest OL. Yet they don't seem to have many problems.
I love a hoppy ending!
August 10th, 2010 at 2:53 PM |
Weight
Weight
Projected starting OL coming in at an average weight of 298.4 lbs. Not bad considering Rodriguez's reputation for having small guys on the line. Good weight and solid mobility sounds like a winning combination to me.
Somewhere, Mike Gittleson eats a pizza and wonders how Barwis does it...
August 10th, 2010 at 3:09 PM |
" Not bad considering
" Not bad considering
" Not bad considering Rodriguez's reputation for having small guys on the line"
What is your support for this? Can anyone who believes this point me to a single RR quote in which he says that he wants tiny little linemen? In fact, didn't RR say in yesterday's presser, that as long as they can move, the bigger the better?
August 10th, 2010 at 3:15 PM |
I believe that was Chollis'
I believe that was Chollis'
I believe that was Chollis' point.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:23 PM |
Perhaps I missed the point,
Perhaps I missed the point,
Perhaps I missed the point, then. I read Chollis as saying that he was impressed with RR having such a large line, given his propensity for having a smaller line. I am also happy about our line size. It was the belief that RR has such a proponsity - for a smaller line - that I was taking issue with.
August 10th, 2010 at 4:43 PM |
Propensity is NOT the same as reputation
Propensity is NOT the same as reputation
see: Freep Jihad
In Freep-world, RR is a classless bass-turd who hates families and works his players 80-90 hrs/wk. This is reputation. The propensity of RR is to support his players while trying, along with his staff and some wolves, to maximize their potential.
Wasting away in Ohio, a Wolverine in a sea of red and grey
August 10th, 2010 at 3:21 PM |
i don't think he's developed
i don't think he's developed
i don't think he's developed the reputation by saying it. i think he's developed the reputation by actually having lineman on the smaller side.
to me, what he said yesterday indicates that he has always focused on guys who can move and at WVA he couldn't get the guys who could move AND were big.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:29 PM |
That's Chollis' point ...
That's Chollis' point ...
Ah, beat to the punch ...
I think chollis is refering to the shrimpy but fast lineman meme which floats around the spread won't work in the Big Ten crowd.
I have been contemplating a comparison of two deep weights by position group across the Big Ten, and including RIch's last two teams at WVU - but never seem to get enough time to really get started on the analysis and post up the findings. My thinking is, if we could show that our "power" position groups (O Line, Ends, D Line and MLBs) are in the ball park of our competition it would give us a decimated defense-like comeback to this stupid wimpy-spread-won't-work argument.
Even with Barwis, big linemen that can move probably takes an extra year to develop, over the pizza eating type. Our guys are finally arriving at trajectory, now if we can sustain ...
August 10th, 2010 at 3:35 PM |
Yes
Yes
Apologies to all for not spelling that out better in my initial comment. Had to type fast. Free pizza in the office.
I'm with you all: a big, mobile, physical line is something that can only serve to make this team better, as well as help dispel those rumors that the spread needs glorified TE's manning the line. As maizebluenc said, the trajectory is where RR wants it to be, now it's all about sustaining while continuing development.
August 10th, 2010 at 2:57 PM |
240-250 is NFL linebacker sized. and that is awesome.
240-250 is NFL linebacker sized. and that is awesome.
As long as they bring NFL linebacker speed with that size.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:07 PM |
LB's
LB's
Size is the least of my concerns at this position. After last years dread display, I just hope we have competent LB's.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:14 PM |
Bell
Bell
Is there any word on how Bell is progressing other than the weight gain? I remember espn being pretty high on him and he played well in the UA game but I dont recall hearing much from him since.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:54 PM |
Guessing he won't contribute much this year....
Guessing he won't contribute much this year....
In the Wolverine preview magazine, the coaches tend to find at least one positive thing to say about a player before making the motivational statements. Not in Bell's case... all Robinson had to say was "the kid has a lot of work ahead of him" or something to that effect. Speculating that he may have effort issues. He looked a little out of shape to me in some spring photos - wondering if he gained too much bad weight his first year.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:23 PM |
This.
This.
I'm hoping most of their weight gains are from extra grey matter.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:00 PM |
"Follow your dreams. You can
"Follow your dreams. You can
"Follow your dreams. You can meet your goals. I am living proof. Beefcake! BEEFCAKE!!!" - Perry Dorrestein
Journal Entry - Day 782 of living amongst inbreds - Actually heard this today, "I don't see what the big deal is. All he was doin' was protectin' the players. What's wrong with that?"
August 10th, 2010 at 3:09 PM |
Our starting d line
Our starting d line
Is averaging 279 with Roh and without Campbell. And none of the starters appear fat or out of shape. I am really excited when fans of other teams first realize that RRs small lineman are a myth.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest." -Mark Twain
August 10th, 2010 at 3:05 PM |
Please god, let Molk stay
Please god, let Molk stay
Please god, let Molk stay healthy this year.. I see our Line pushing people around and allowing V smith and Toussaint to run wild hopefully.. Also if Shaw and Cox can contribute, but for some reason I really think Toussaint will be the surprise of the year.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:06 PM |
I don't llike Big Will being
I don't llike Big Will being
I don't llike Big Will being that "Big". I liked the thought of him being a 300 pounder who can move and has litlle definition in his body. I like to see the little fella's bulking up a bit.
toomer18
August 10th, 2010 at 3:12 PM |
Not to be that guy but...
Not to be that guy but...
I think Isiah Bell wins the Biggest Anti-Loser Award by gaining over 10% of his original body weight compared to Gallon's 9%.
Edit: As always, I enjoy the free pass to engage in wild and rampant speculation.
"Nowhere is there a better university, in any way, than this Michigan of ours."
August 10th, 2010 at 3:13 PM |
the gospel of barwis says you
the gospel of barwis says you
the gospel of barwis says you shall shed weight before putting it back on correctly.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:21 PM |
Weight is one thing, but how
Weight is one thing, but how
Weight is one thing, but how Barwis got Roh to grow an inch from last year is something special.
Let's eat Grandpa.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:31 PM |
All of that chocolate milk
All of that chocolate milk
All of that chocolate milk baby!
August 10th, 2010 at 3:32 PM |
John Clay is at 250ish
John Clay is at 250ish
so I am happy with Big Will standing in his way at 330ish.
August 10th, 2010 at 4:48 PM |
That and
That and
was Watson that tall? I don't know that I remember him being 6'5"
Seems to me that Branch was probably that tall.
Wasting away in Ohio, a Wolverine in a sea of red and grey
August 10th, 2010 at 7:20 PM |
the cardinals
the cardinals
Arizona listed Watson at 6'3" and 330 lbs down from 360.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:26 PM |
JT Turner
JT Turner
Why is it that everyone is freaked out that he is "too big" for corner? According to this he only out weighs T-Wolf by 3 lbs. Am I missing something?
August 10th, 2010 at 3:32 PM |
Height. The dude seriously
Height. The dude seriously
Height. The dude seriously looks like he's as tall as DG.
I miss King of Belch.
August 10th, 2010 at 4:19 PM |
According to Mgoblue
According to Mgoblue
JT is (6.2) 2" taller than T-Wolf, JT Floyd, and Cullen Christian. He is only 1" taller than James Rodgers. Is 2" a big deal at corner? Or was he just overrated?
August 10th, 2010 at 5:25 PM |
Of course JT was overrated.
Of course JT was overrated.
Of course JT was overrated. He's already a bust. I mean every good player in CFB history contributed immediately as a freshmen. None of them need adjustment time to the college game or academic life or dealing with the social pressures of being a student athlete at a major institution.
/sarcasm(although I hope to God you already could tell)
" I want to win Big 10 titles. Multiply. Consecutively. I just made that word up (multiply). I'm like that. I'm good at Scrabble."
August 10th, 2010 at 9:21 PM |
Incredibly. one year ago
Incredibly. one year ago
Incredibly. one year ago today we were still awaiting word on Witty, JT Turner and Jason Forcier. Perhaps we should give Turner a bit more time to develop. I'm willing to wait until at least the Indiana game
August 10th, 2010 at 4:20 PM |
But why is his height a bad thing?
But why is his height a bad thing?
But why is his height a bad thing?
Hes 6'2. Isn't that the kind of height you want guarding Michael Floyd, Devier Posey, etc?
Keep believing
August 10th, 2010 at 5:22 PM |
From what I understand it
From what I understand it
From what I understand it makes leverage difficult if the CB is too tall. That's why you don't see 6'4 CB running around the NFL.
" I want to win Big 10 titles. Multiply. Consecutively. I just made that word up (multiply). I'm like that. I'm good at Scrabble."
August 10th, 2010 at 6:10 PM |
I sincerly doubt
I sincerly doubt
that he's 6'2", I swear he looks taller than that.
Regarding tall CBs, it's harder for CB to get down low in backpedal and get out of the break as quickly as possible. Height matters when there's a jumpball situtation or in the red zone. Ideally, you want CB to be 6' or 6'1" yet have loose hips and is a good athlete.
August 10th, 2010 at 6:54 PM |
Center of gravity
Center of gravity
is higher and it takes longer for you to turn your body. Reason for agile slot ninjas and corners to be under 6'.
August 11th, 2010 at 7:55 AM |
Deion Sanders
Deion Sanders
PrimeTime was/is 6' 1". I fail to see how one inch makes a world of difference. I think it may have more to do with athletic ability.
August 11th, 2010 at 3:07 PM |
Deion
Deion
has fluid hips and quick feet which is why he was able to keep up with WRs.
it's not about athletic ability but more about fluid hips. I rather have CB who has average speed but has fluid hips and quick feet than CB who is a great athlete but has stiff hips.
August 11th, 2010 at 9:51 PM |
the exception
the exception
not the rule. Just because Dwight Howard is7' tall and runs like a deer does not mean every 7' should be able too.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:27 PM |
I'm going to assume listing
I'm going to assume listing
I'm going to assume listing Robinson first indicates sensitive insider knowledge. We're on to your game, sir!
August 10th, 2010 at 3:33 PM |
Poor Dantonio. He must be
Poor Dantonio. He must be
Poor Dantonio. He must be tired of hearing about Mike Barwis:
http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2010/08/michigan_state_coach_mark_dant_6.html
August 10th, 2010 at 8:34 PM |
Snidely Whiplash
Snidely Whiplash
is the MSU strength coach?
August 10th, 2010 at 3:36 PM |
Not sure what to make of
Not sure what to make of
Not sure what to make of Quinton Washington and Will Campbell going back up after freshman years spent shedding weight. Similarly, Perry Dorrestein's 321 seems too heavy, especially for a guy who had plenty of trouble pass blocking last year and is trying to lock down the left tackle job. The other seniors-to be put on a few pounds here and there; Dorrestein's 15 is out of proportion. The Lewan-Dorrestein battle may be over before it even starts.
Here's what we can probably make out of Washington and Campbell's weight changes.
2009: losing fat.
2010: gaining muscle.
It's Barwis getting rid of bad weight, and putting on good weight.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:43 PM |
Another Gabe?
Another Gabe?
Is Campbell related to Gabe Watson? It's starting to sound like the same story all over again.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:45 PM |
Somebody
Somebody
Somebody get Omameh a burger with the works and chili cheese fries or something, STAT
We can have three OL over 300 with a little extra push and quiet one of the herpy-derpiest memes on the Rodriguez era.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:47 PM |
Who do we think RR was refering to as needing to do more work?
Who do we think RR was refering to as needing to do more work?
Candidates:
Perry Dorrestein
Will Campbell
"Relax you panic monger" -Megatron
August 10th, 2010 at 4:01 PM |
I wonder if this is evidence
I wonder if this is evidence
I wonder if this is evidence that Dorrestein's back injury has really effected him?
August 10th, 2010 at 9:43 PM |
Daryl Stonum
Will
Daryl Stonum
Will
Daryl Stonum
Will Campbell
Obi Ezeh
Jr. Hemmingway
August 10th, 2010 at 3:48 PM |
don't think it was ever
don't think it was ever
don't think it was ever advisable or realistic to get the Big Fella under 300. More concerned about his technique.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:50 PM |
weight gains since spring
weight gains since spring
I sent Brian the weight changes since spring (I had saved that roster), so he can fill this out more completely. Another big gainer on the O-line is Christian Pace, who's put on 21 lbs and is up to 280.
Someone needs to create a Barwis metric. Something like: weight * #225 bench presses * max squat / shuttle run time.
I am greatly looking forward to a team that is simultaneously bigger, more physical, and faster.
the Team, the Team, the Team!
Our LBs put on some lbs. In a good way. 240-250 is NFL linebacker sized. and that is awesome.
It doesnt seem like anyone really let themselves go this offseason. I was looking for someone who put on like, 15 lbs fall-spring, then had to lose 10 spring to now. I know Turner, Washington, and Campbell are all of concern... but I didnt see any glaring yo-yo-ing.
Holy Barwisising... we're gonna maul some people this year
"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"