this, but with points up for grabs [Marc-Gregor Campredon]

Bring Back Kickoff Field Goals Comment Count

Ace July 14th, 2020 at 12:13 PM

While watching college football games from the mid-80s to mid-90s for the "Let's Remember Some Games" series, one of the most difficult—and fun—parts of the game to track has been the myriad tweaks to the kicking rules. For instance, from 1948-88, placekickers were allowed to use a tee on extra points and field goals in the NCAA. The goalposts were also five feet wider from 1959-90 than the current standard.

As we saw in the 1985 Notre Dame game, these rules made kickers like John Carney serious threats once their offenses crossed midfield. They were even bigger long-range threats before 1978, when all missed field goals were treated like touchbacks—opponent's ball at their 20-yard line—instead of giving the opponent the ball at the previous line of scrimmage. Watching that game led me to look up the kicking tee rules, which in turn led me to this incredibly comprehensive page of the longest field goals in history, one that also details rule changes and how each kick was made. They even have high school kicks.

You can get lost in that page and looking up related tidbits for hours. Before I get into the ostensible purpose of this post, a quick and not at all comprehensive list of amazing facts contained therein:

  1. As you'd suspect, most of the longest field goals come from prior to 1978, when kickers used two-inch tees (they'd been one inch until 1964) and teams didn't face huge field position consequences for attempting long bombs. The record across all divisions is a nice 69 yards by NAIA Abilene Christian's Ove Johansson in 1976, the Swede's only season playing college ball after transitioning from soccer. He went 1-for-4 on field goals for the Philadelphia Eagles before moving on to a career in business.
  2. The very next person on the list is Dirk Borgognone, who crushed a 68-yarder for Reno High School in 1985. It was the only field goal of his football career.
  3. This passage: "In early 1920's Cornell had players build a hill of dirt and more than one player thus held the ball higher for the placekicker. Referees eventually called this a penalty."
  4. Steve Rainey, playing on a 7-on-7 flag football team in 1991, made a 67-yard field goal off a one-inch wood block tee—barefoot. It's the longest barefoot kick on record. Also, I told you this list was comprehensive.
  5. I urge you to read the newspaper report after Princeton's John Triplett Haxall booted a 65-yarder against Yale at the Polo Grounds in 1882.
  6. Ten years later, Birmingham A.C.'s J.P. Ross connected from 65 yards on a drop kick, the longest such kick in history. They beat Alabama, 5-4. The Tide's occasional run-in with horrible kicking luck dates back to the 19th century.
  7. In 2002, Ola Kimrin made a 65-yard field goal in the preseason for the Denver Broncos, which would be an NFL record if it had occurred in the regular season. Denver released him after the game.
  8. Big Ten, baby: "62 yards Pat O'Dea, Wisconsin (W 47-0) at Northwestern, 11/24/1898 (drop-kick)  [in blizzard] (also has never to be broken longest punt: 110 yards, 1898)  [also kicked 60 yarder in Australia, see below, • Only player to do so in both lands.]"
  9. A semi-pro player named Fabrizio Scaccia had a 62-yarder wiped out by an illegal formation penalty. No word on whether he quit on the spot, unfortunately.
  10. Michigan State's Ralf Mojsiejenko had a 60-yard kick nullified by a penalty in the 1984 Cherry Bowl, held at the Pontiac Silverdome. He missed the ensuing 65-yarder. State lost to Army, 10-6.

I could go on for ages, but it's time to focus on the real point of this post: 1940s Wisconsin high school football.

Yes, in Wisconsin, for a period of time, you could get three points for hitting the ball through the uprights on a kickoff. This was far-fetched but doable for high schoolers with the tee at the 40-yard line and goalposts on the goal line instead of the back of the end zone.

[Hit THE JUMP for PLEASE DO THIS now updated with STATISTICAL JUSTIFICATION]

What began as a whimsical thought about a weird rule has turned into a real desire to see this in modern football. For college and NFL kickers, it's 75 yards from tee to goalposts, and that crossbar is ten feet off the ground. Even the best kickoff specialists have a hard time getting the distance to split the uprights, let alone the accuracy to do it with any regularity.

The strategic ramifications are wide-ranging and contain great comedic potential. The possibility of a kickoff field goal—raising a touchdown drive to a potential eleven points if you make a two-point conversion—would prevent teams from sitting on a small lead and keep comebacks in play for many more games. The calculus for late-game strategy changes dramatically. Coaches like James Franklin would have to account for all of this. Let that sink in.

imagine if this counted

Mostly, though, it boils down to this: how chaotically fun would it be to see a kickoff specialist line up with one second on the clock knowing his team's only hope of victory is to accurately boot the everloving piss out of the ball. The kicker's team has just driven the field to score a touchdown to even make this possible. The specialist has been recruited out of high school, or perhaps borrowed from the soccer team, specifically for this purpose.

We may have a long time to wait before football comes back. We might as well use it to make this wild sport even better.

UPDATE: Shoutout to friend of the blog Geoff, who did the math I'm incapable of calculating myself. I'm even more in support of this after seeing that it'd only be a good idea if you either had an incredible kicker or it's a desperation late-game scenario.

If you must devise a way to make this less impactful, you can lower the point value to one or two, as a commenter suggested. Just find a way to get this into my life, please.

Comments

Teeba

July 14th, 2020 at 12:23 PM ^

Barefoot kickers were more common years ago when I was a kid. I can’t remember the last time I saw one. 
I remember being jealous of MSU for having Ralf Mojsienko. He was the first kicker I remember who was a serious threat from 50+. I don’t remember his last name being spelled like that, but good luck googling the correct spelling of “Mojsienko” if I’m right.

EDIT: I miraculously found him: 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralf_Mojsiejenko

German of Ukrainian descent who went on to be an NFL pro bowl punter. The guy had a massive leg. Ray Guy/Reggie Roby quality leg.

Unsalted

July 14th, 2020 at 12:57 PM ^

In fairness to the Denver Broncos regarding Ola Kimrin, they had the great Jason Elam who already kicked a 63 yd FG in a real game.

I do like the idea of the kick-off FG. It would give great significance to a 15-yard penalty that is enforced on the kick-off. Taking the kick-off FG completely out of play or making it considerably more probable depending on the who the penalty was against.

rolstonb

July 14th, 2020 at 1:05 PM ^

(longtime lurker) On a personal note I love this option.  My son is a HS kicker and had a KO FG last year (wind aided but he has a cannon for a leg).  The top HS kickers routinely hit around 70yard kickoffs. You would need to hit about a 73 yard KO to have a chance. Our state still has a free end of half kick rule after a KO. Our coach is waiting for a team to squib a kickoff prior to end of a half so my son can have a free chance for a FG unrushed from the spot of the downed ball

Also not noted in the article but also occasionally in play. A penalty by the Defense taken not on the XP but on the kickoff would make this a kick from even closer. It would actually be a reasonable expectation for the 3pts in HS if you had a real kicker (I know many teams don't). I'd expect my son to make a free kick from 55yards.

MGoShorts

July 14th, 2020 at 1:07 PM ^

I've never really been a fan of giving bad teams more chances to win in wonky ways. Football should be won in the trenches, not on a gimmick 75-yard prayer kick.

jmblue

July 14th, 2020 at 2:51 PM ^

Why would this be any more gimmicky than kicking regular field goals for three points, or kicking after every touchdown for one?  Kicking for points has always been part of the game.

What I would like about this is that it would probably reduce the number of tie scores in general.  Say we adopt this rule for one point.  A touchdown wouldn’t consistently end up meaning seven points, it could be a broader range of scores.  You could have anywhere from six to nine points after a TD.  30-21 could be a one-score game.  I think it could add a lot of extra drama.

MGoShorts

July 14th, 2020 at 2:59 PM ^

Just because we could change the rule to add more drama doesn't mean we should. Adding a 3-point kickoff doesn't fix any glaring issue, and it only adds another way for the inferior team to pull off an undeserved comeback. The argument for this is just "it would be cool bro!" which is just..... meh.

I'm all for meaningful change, but this is just change for the sake of change.

jmblue

July 14th, 2020 at 6:35 PM ^

There is reason to do something like this.  Kickoffs are the most dangerous play in the game and the sport is already trying to phase them out.  Moreover, there is also the concern about overtime games lasting too long.  We're seeing more and more shootout games where the two teams trade touchdowns and seem headed for overtime.  This adds a new variable that would probably reduce the likelihood of overtime significantly. 

If anything, I'd say this is less of a gimmick than the introduction of overtime (which eliminates field position and the clock) was.

I would make it worth a single point, though.  Three is pushing it.

(BTW, this brings up an old idea I've had: make the player who scored a TD kick his own PAT.  You can have placekickers for field goals and kickoffs, but a PAT must be attempted by the TD scorer.  It would be fantastic.)

befuggled

July 16th, 2020 at 9:54 AM ^

My first thought was that Tom Harmon would have been fine with that.

My second thought is that an alternate approach would be to just tighten up substitution rules so that you have to keep the same lineup on the field after a touchdown. You score a touchdown, then somebody that was on the field for the scoring play has to kick the extra point or you have to go for two.

You would have to do something to prevent a team from putting a kicker on the field after an injury on the scoring play, though, to prevent faked injuries.

ScottGoBlue

July 14th, 2020 at 1:22 PM ^

I've had a similar thought before. It would make kick-offs more interesting and many of them less dangerous since return teams wouldn't actually get to return as many kick-offs.

But I think it would better to award 1 point, not 3. Without looking up hard numbers (don't have time to go looking for data at the moment), I'd guess a team kicks off on average between 4-7 times per game. That's a lot of points that could be scored on kick offs if 3 points are awarded. 1 is still more interesting and rewards kickers, but doesn't drastically alter scoring.

My 2 cents.

MDSup3rDup3

July 14th, 2020 at 2:11 PM ^

In total agreement here. I've wanted a single point for kickoff FGs for years. It makes penalties on scoring plays/XPs meaningful (a kick from the 50 vs. the 35 is no difference now). You could play with the point total based on expected points and potentially play with where kickoffs would be from. This makes having a KOS an advantage again (you would need someone with the leg to make the kick but also decent accuracy). 

I think you would also have to put in an edge case rule for free kicks from safeties (if you make it 3 points) so you don't get a team trailing by 1 taking an intentional safety to blast a free kick for the tie.

ca_prophet

July 14th, 2020 at 2:37 PM ^

Kicking from your own 20 after a safety, you'd need 90 yards just to get it to the goal posts, much less over the crossbar.  Even if you're backed up far enough that an intentional safety is realistic, that can hardly be better odds than trying to score normally - I'd guess that a Hail Mary from anywhere is better odds than a 90-yd field goal.

 

carolina blue

July 14th, 2020 at 10:08 PM ^

Uh, yes. You’d be right. Mainly because a 90 yard FG is literally impossible, at least by any currently known person. Even on a tee and with a 30mph tail wind, I’m betting the absolute best a kicker could hope for is landing it somewhere in the first couple yard last if the end zone. 
 

 

Chris S

July 14th, 2020 at 1:44 PM ^

This write-up was fantastic! I would definitely be opposed to Kickoff Field Goals - the prospect of losing a game to Sparty or Indiana on this does not outweigh the benefits of having it. And you know it would happen to us.

That being said, the references in this post are awesome. Great stuff Ace.

Wolv in OR

July 14th, 2020 at 1:54 PM ^

Let's have real fun with it. 2 points but "make it-take it" rules in effect. If you score on a kickoff FG, you get to kickoff again, since you were the last team to score naturally. What kind of streaks would we see?

MDSup3rDup3

July 14th, 2020 at 2:13 PM ^

If you do make it-take it, this could go on forever. You would also need some kind of progressive challenge where the point total decreases or you kickoff from further back. Make it 1 point and start at the 35. If you make it, move to the 30. Although this has gimmick potential and also could be game-breaking as far as clock management goes.

lsjtre

July 14th, 2020 at 2:10 PM ^

I have wanted this since a foreign player on our high school team was baffled as to why we didn't get any points on a kick-off that went through the uprights. I had never thought of it before, but after, there is not a moment that goes by that I don't.

Vasav

July 14th, 2020 at 2:31 PM ^

I forget what book I was reading, but Pat O'Dea was one of the original stars of the Big Ten. It's wild that at the time, punters/kickers were the QBs of the day - they scored the points, they moved the ball downfield and the ball was live so it worked a bit like a pass play (ruggers are familiar with this), and turnovers were more frequent back when as well, so field position mattered more, making kickers even more BMOC.

Vasav

July 14th, 2020 at 2:34 PM ^

Also Ace, I love the way you're using your quarantine. This was excellent. I also don't hate it. Even if I did, it's excellent. 

I have my own weird tweak to special teams - get the kicking out of football. It's a relic of the past. Replace it by "throwing" field goal. Sure, it's easy to throw it between the uprights - so instead, why not make the target to HIT the upright with a throw? 

(punting can stay I guess, because i can't think of a better way to change possession)

MDSup3rDup3

July 15th, 2020 at 9:12 AM ^

Punting is less risky than the standard kick (at least kickoff) mostly because the LOS is still standard block/rush from linemen. Greg Schiano (yes, I know he's problematic) proposed a change to kickoffs where the "kicking team" gets the ball on their 35 with a 4th and 15. From there, play scrimmage football. This reduces the high impact collisions we see on kickoffs that injured players like Eric LeGrand and Berkley Edwards. This would also add the variation people want to see and allow for some insane comebacks (either via Hail Marys or a team that gets a hot streak and starts converting a bunch of 4th and 15s to never go on defense).

https://newyork.sbnation.com/rutgers-scarlet-knights/2011/6/10/2218221/greg-schiano-eliminate-kickoffs-proposal-ncaa-football-rules-nfl-lockout

TheLastStraw

July 14th, 2020 at 3:03 PM ^

To have any chance that this rules change would be adopted, you'd have to pitch it as a player safety initiative. We all know that kickoffs are the most dangerous plays in the game. If, however, the kicking team was always kicking it out the back of the endzone, the risk of injury would drop substantially as we wouldn't see nearly as many kick returns attempted.

By making it 2 points, we would keep the value high enough that people would go for it and still decrease the likelihood of overtime games as teams would be scoring 6 points on a TD, 3 points on a FG, 2 points for a KOFG, 2 points on a 2-pt conversion, and 1 point for an extra point. Anything to increase the variability of football scores decreases the likelihood of overtime and decreases injuries.

johacket

July 14th, 2020 at 3:04 PM ^

I love this idea, since they modified kickoffs to prevent return injuries, this would give them more purpose again.

Also, anything beyond half-court should be 4 points in basketball...

 

...change my mind!

Kevin C

July 14th, 2020 at 4:46 PM ^

A kickoff takes no time off the clock if it goes out of the end zone.  So, if the rules stipulated that a kickoff field goal is followed by another kickoff (just as a normal field goal is followed by a kickoff), a team could overcome a 35 point deficit with 1 second left by kicking 12 consecutive 75-yard field goals.

SyracuseWolvrine

July 14th, 2020 at 6:03 PM ^

I could be mistaken (probably am), but I feel like I've seen a Michigan kicker put it through the uprights on a kickoff in fairly recent memory. Possibly Hayden Epstein? Maybe even Jay Feely as well?

umchicago

July 14th, 2020 at 8:07 PM ^

to hell with FG. in fact, i would make it more difficult; ie. decreasing the length of the cross bar.  the game should be about TDs; not decided by the little shits.

RobGoBlue

July 14th, 2020 at 11:28 PM ^

  1. In 2002, Ola Kimrin made a 65-yard field goal in the preseason for the Denver Broncos, which would be an NFL record if it had occurred in the regular season. Denver released him after the game.

Thus cementing my long-held opinion that there exists no greater waste of time in sports than NFL preseason.

Sons of Louis Elbel

July 15th, 2020 at 7:03 AM ^

To those of us old enough to remember the kicking FGs off a tee/wide goal posts era, who can forget Texas' legendary Russell Erxleben, who hit a 67 yarder, became a 1st round (!) draft pick of the (of course) Saints, and was largely a bust as a pro. 

And was later convicted of securities fraud and then investment fraud. 

oriental andrew

July 15th, 2020 at 9:34 AM ^

Are we all ignoring the fact that Dick Tracy was apparently a great HS kicker in Wisconsin? He could probably dropkick Flattop's noggin from here to Lake Michigan. Lines up, since he works in The City, which is probably modeled after Chicago. Coincidence? I think not.