OT: Report - Tigers trade Justin Wilson and Alex Avila to the Cubs
About 5-7 years ago we had 3 CAN'T-MISS!!!!! shortstop prospects.....and they missed about as badly as Brandon Inge swinging at a curveball. Brent Dlugach, Danny Worth and Cale Iorg, anyone?
My initial impression is that Candelario might be another Castellanos. Decent stick, below average fielder.
Paredes is in A-ball. He could be the next Omar Vizquel. He could hit .135 in high-A next year and never be heard from again. He's a complete crapshoot.
Well Avila did trade for his son this year... nevermind, it wasn't a trade and he then gave him away for yet another shortstop. If he's worried about Kinsler's longevity, shouldn't he expand his vision and maybe get, you know, a second baseman? And what about backup catching now that McCann is there full time with his lifetime .242 BA?
And what about backup catching now that McCann is there full time with his lifetime .242 BA?Hicks.
that it is the most difficult defensive position on the spectrum so often times if a guy isn't good enough or if he is blocked it's much easier to slide him down the scale to another position - 2B and CF are 2 of the most frequent moves. Problem is that if the bat isn't premium then they are limited to the middle of the field because the power guys play the corners.
That's why if you look at the international free agent signings a majority of guys coming from Latin America are SS.
You know like the comment right below said the same exact thing......
For the fucking life of me I can't imagine why we're stocking middle infielders in the minors.
I asked myself the same question when the entire return on JD was infielders. It turns out that our infield pipeline is absolute horseshit. Or was. Toledo didn't have an infielder under 30. Kody Eaves is the only one hitting in Erie. The shortstop situation in Lakeland was unspeakably shitty. West Michigan started off the season with decent hopes and that crashed and burned by June.
We're stocking middle infielders in the minors because on July 1 there was literally nobody you could expect to make any kind of real major-league contribution within three years (that would be Eaves, who is nothing close to a guarantee, after which, zip, zilch, nada), and Kinsler won't be around forever and Castellanos probably isn't a long-term solution at third.
If you can't imagine why we're loading up on infielders, realize that it's because our infield up and down the farm system was the absolute worst in baseball, probably by a very long distance.
Sounds like Avila subscribes to the old adage that you need to be "strong up the middle" to win championships. Years of "reloading" a team that couldn't quite get it done have taken their toll on the farm system.
Sadly, the Tigers are going to have to go through a year or two of being an "AAA team for contenders" for a year or two: maybe even three. When they finally hire a new manager, he will hopefully be set up to succeed like Joe Maddon was in Tampa Bay before they pulled the plug on him.
The next manager will also get something Maddon never had in Tampa Bay: a high payroll to attract free agents.
Sounds like Avila subscribes to the old adage that you need to be "strong up the middle" to win championships.
I wouldn't say that necessarily; the top two prospects (Lugo and Candelario) are third basemen. Plus, minor league shortstops are like high school quarterbacks - often they're playing short because they're the best athlete (or infielder) on the team. Later on they might move somewhere else. I think it's just that the infield stinks up and down the farm system and Avila has decided to use this opportunity to restock it.
Is set in stone. Jose Ramirez made it to the majors as a SS before Francisco Lindor did. It all worked out, Jose plays 3rd and 2nd base when needed, and Frankie is playing SS because he was obviously better in the field.
Odds are that an infielder who is good enough to play SS could easily get moved over to 3rd or 2nd.
Obviously not every player turns out exactly like they are supposed to, so you stack the deck and just bet that one of them will.
Part II
The thing about having excessing shortstops is this: if it's done PROPERLY (no warranty is implied here with our front office), you can move them in the infield. A SS can be moved to 3B or 2B. It's much easier to do that than to move a 2B, or especially a 3B, to shortstop. You can buy yourself some flexibility there.
Other teams will want those prospects, though. They will have trade value.
Exactly. I had this discussion with my girlfriend, who couldn't understand why the Tigers would trade for so many players at the same position, and at the cost of their best relief pitcher.
I appealed to her degree in Economics (UM, Class of 1985), and told her not to think of them as "players," but as "assets." The more valuable assets you have, the more other teams will want them, and the more you can spin them off for players at positions you need.
But isn't that a big gamble?, she asked.
Sure, I replied. Isn't that a big part of Economics?
She's not speaking to me now.
And 8 players at 3rd base ain't gonna win you any gallgames. Assets be damned.
so you are talking about the best relief pitcher in the WORST bullpen in the MLB.
that infield may be fine if you had harper and trout in the OF.
You're an optimist.
I remember the Tigers being 5-10 years away from contention......in 2005.
I remember Jhonny Peralta being about to be released because he had a bad first 10 days of spring training.....and then playing here another 3 years.
I remember Joba getting that 5 year, $50 mil contract that SOMEONE was sure to give him.
Lynn Henning wrote all three of those things, in between columns about how the fences were TOO FAR!!! That guy hit the ball a whopping 380 feet and it didn't go into the 14th row!!! No one will EVER hit a home run in Comerica Park......and then Miggy went and won 4 batting titles, 2 HR titles and a Triple Crown.
I think Henning is on balance a pretty good writer, but I lost a lot of respect for him over his HoF tantrum in which he refuses to send in any ballot at all because he can't name more than 10 players. Most local writers will carry the water a little bit for their local players, if they're deserving; the fact that Alan Trammell had no local-media champion was almost certainly a factor in his failure to be enshrined. Crossing my fingers and hoping that the Veterans' Committee is smarter than the media and brings Lou along for the ride.
Not an Avila fan by any measure but I think he did solid here as the market certainly doesnt look as glamorous as it did last year, look no further than Lucroy. The Rangers traded Brinson and Ortiz last year for him and now theyre getting a PTBNL for him, the market dictates the prices and with that said I think Al did what he could for 1.5 years of Wilson and 2 more months of his son.
His son is a backup catcher. His value is minimal.
Wilson was our biggest trading chip. Any other deals we make will likely net us relatively little in return.
Verlander could net an interesting prospect or two if the Tigers are willing to eat a bunch of the remaining $$$ on his contract.
The only reason Cabrera doesn't have the worst contract in baseball is because Albert Pujols exists. I mean, look at this thing. He's arguably the second-most untradable player in the game.
I think a lot of Tigers fans overrate the value of JD Martinez. Yes, his offense is fantastic but his defense is a liability. You're not gonna get a lot of value out of a rental player who can hit but can't play defense (essentially a DH).
He did get a good value out of a BP arm who has 1.5 year left in his contract and rental backup C who happen to play well this season.
Martinez is also going to be a free agent this year. Bat-first guys about to hit free agency aren't generally worth much in the trade market.
don't fetch a whole of money in the FA market because it severely restrict the roster flexibility.
"Arguably the Cubs #1 prospect" doesn't meant what it meant three years ago. He's a back end of the top 100 guy (midseason MLB rankings had him at 92). Obviously not bad, but people shouldn't think he's Kris Bryant just because he's the Cubs' top guy.
Nice OBP and OPS numbers in the minors, all the way up to AAA, but he's yet to show much in the majors. He's 23 now, so pretty soon it's going to be time to shit or get off the pot.
Ah yes, the man who popped out to Gary Templeton in Game Four of the 1984 NLCS. We will always remember him.
Of course, here in metro Detroit, for those unaware, we'll remember him a little better for making us appreciate Alan Trammell even more once Veryzer was traded to Cleveland.
Because the Cubs traded all of their top prospects and a few others got promoted. He isn't a bad player, but he wasn't even in their top 10 last year.
Paredes is the bigger prospect. It will also be years before he makes the league.
who happen to be pitchers. It's not the time to be upgrading for bullpen when they're playing for the future. Plus they have Fulmer who is young.
Bullpen pitchers are pretty much crapshoot from year to year anyway.
Well, thank goodness this team doesn't need any relief pitching....
when they're building for the future? That's a bad strategy, if you ask me.
Yeah, it would be a terrible strategy, but it wouldn't be a real Tigers fan if he wasn't bitching and moaningabout the bullpen