OT: Trouble in Spartyland- Warrants Submitted to Ingham County Prosecutor For MSU Football Players
https://twitter.com/mattcharboneau/status/832218595518193664
Apparently these are arrest warrants:
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2017/02/16/prosecut…
February 16th, 2017 at 11:06 AM ^
If MSU handled these issues properly, then the program's long term punishment should (and will) be less than that of Penn State.
However there is at least *some* evidence that this *could* be a systematic issue as MSU also has a gymnastic coach and band director who have also been investigated for sexual harassment and criminal activity.
My criticism is more towards those who believe that the best way to respond to these situations is to "think about the victims". While I agree that we should be mindful towards the privacy of survivors and also the rights of those accused, it is also well within the public's jurisdiction to criticize and and express outrage at those whos systematically allow these types of atrocities to happen. *Just* thinking doesn't accomplish these goals.
Empowering survivors and taking away power from systematic enablers of sexual abuse can (and often) happen concurrently.
February 16th, 2017 at 10:29 AM ^
You are not alone. The story is about 3 football players raping a female student. The concern should be for the victim, not whether MSU or PSU has more wins.
February 16th, 2017 at 10:36 AM ^
People can both be concerned about victims and carry on a separate conversation linked to the original topic at the same time. Great that you are standing up for what is right, but your outrage is misplaced at people on here discussing other things as well.
February 16th, 2017 at 10:38 AM ^
Magnus pointed to the example where PSU's decades long pedophile case had minimal impact on its football program. WD pointed out the strength of the progams is different.
There are other places on the internet where one can discuss improving upon societal issues indepently of sports.
I'm pretty sure nobody here has any "concern" for the MSU or PSU programs.
February 16th, 2017 at 10:53 AM ^
Magnus made the point that the sanctions and issues with henuos (sp?) crimes did not affect PSU in the long run as they won the BIG this year and went to the Rose Bowl. WD responded that it is not an apples to apples comparison as PSU has a history of on field success that helped a quicker than expected recovery that MSU does not share.
February 16th, 2017 at 11:01 AM ^
sanctions were also lifted long before they were supposed to be which certainly did not hurt PSU either.
I just don't think that what is being reported at MSU, if it is just an isolated occurence of a henious act by a few players, would result in NCAA sanctions. If they fire the coach who had knowledge of it but didn't report it we are talking about a grand total of 1 month of coverup by one coach who has been terminated.
Unless there are greater issues of institutional control, I am not certain why this would be a sanctionable offense by the football program. Awful, awful incident, but not, on its face, any reason for NCAA intervention.
February 16th, 2017 at 11:04 AM ^
I agree that Blackwell + 3, as a one-off, is not a PSU situation. However, in light of the Larry Nassar (MSU Gymnastics Dr.) allegations, it starts to look like greater issues of institutional control.
The Athletic Department starts to look rotten from the top, which brings more investigations, which typically brings out more dirty laundry.
February 16th, 2017 at 11:10 AM ^
agree with this. However, it is a really big leap (and frankly one that I don't even want to consider in my head) to conclude that this had anything to do with Nassar, directly or even tangentially. As I said above, if it did or there are other issues involved, they would be wise to just fess up and plead for mercy, but I guess it all depends on what actually happened with the players and Blackwell.
February 16th, 2017 at 11:25 AM ^
I don't think there is any suggestion out there of a direct connection between Nassar and Blackwell + 3. But arguably there is a connection.
To wit, all of this is happening in the MSU Athletic Department, and it's all happening under Hollis's leadership. We now have two stories of coaches allegedly helping sexual predators get away with sexual assault (Blackwell and Coach Kathy Klages). The Nassar/Klages situation is warranting an outside law firm audit, and those typically aren't great for the school audited. Ask PSU and Baylor. And those investigations could touch on Winston, Appling, Payne, Dorm Vikings, etc. Because it will be incumbent on MSU to explain, credibly, how they handle investigation of claims and discipline within the athletic department and within the university as a whole.
So it starts to look like Hollis is either fostering (at worst) or suffering (at best) an environment where women students are not being protected at the school. Should Hollis have known about either of these situations before they blew up? I don't know - I'm a magic 8 ball. But the buck stops squarely with him, and you've got to think the Trustees are furious about this whole Charlie Foxtrot.
February 16th, 2017 at 11:37 AM ^
The football situation, as an isolated event, sounds very bad, but mostly affects the 5 people involved (3 football players, the victim, and the coach cover up). If there is no proof of a coverup by the rest of the staff, I can see at most Dantonio recieving what RR got with a lack to monitor minor violation. It would hurt the team in loss of talent of the 3 potential players, but that's not really anything anyone should be concerned with. In isolation I see this as no more worse than the Gibbins (which was bad as well) in regards to the institution.
The band director thing I see as a non-issue. The texts were inappropriate (not criminal), the director appoligized and was properly punished, and it looks like matters were taken to protect the student.
Where the current scenario might hurt MSU is if it is systematic of the department in relation to the Gymnastics situation. Lack of Institutional Control could limit some scholarships. I guess we will see if something comes up that links a lot more to knowing what went on and an inappropriate coverup was there beyond the coach mentioned.
February 16th, 2017 at 11:26 AM ^
Stuart Dunning II in the rotten group. I am so glad he is gone.
I am still bitter that he was the prosecutor when the whole Appling.Payne "incident" happened.
February 16th, 2017 at 11:40 AM ^
He's omitted because he was not an MSU employee, but I can't think of a nice thing to say about him. His refusal to authorize issuance of a warrant against Appling and Payne is absolutely stunning - especially in light of the fact that Appling's statement to the police was essentially an admission of rape.
Stuart Dunning II is worthy of our disgust. 100%.
February 16th, 2017 at 1:17 PM ^
February 16th, 2017 at 12:13 PM ^
WD naivete as much as the next guy, but youre blowing things way out of proportion. He's making a simple poing about PSU history and resources. Get a grip.
February 16th, 2017 at 11:30 AM ^
You're wrong. The death penalty for the PSU football program would have been ridiculous. Those were criminal acts by a couple of old guys, one of which is dead. The NCAA had no right to pass sanctions on PSU. The police officers and FBI had the rights to get involved.
February 16th, 2017 at 11:41 AM ^
The NCAA has every right to get involved when one of it's members acts against its core values. The criminal acts by the AD, President, and ex-DC coach, were all done under the NCAAs watch. The cover up was there to protect an coach and program that put winning and records above child safety for over 20 years. The NCAA punishing that program is absolutely correct.
February 16th, 2017 at 12:00 PM ^
is never any resolution to this particular debate. I have seen it go on for hours, and have been involved in the debate on a number of occassions and neither side is persuaded by the other. There are valid beliefs and perspectives on both sides as to the whether or not the incidents were "related to the football program" aside from being performed by a staff member, and whether the NCAA sanctions have any deterrent nexus to the outlandish events that transpired at Penn State.
There really isn't one "right" answer, which is why I think the NCAA took the very odd step of issuing drastic sanctions and then backing off them. I don't even think they knew whether they were dealing with things outside of their "jurisdiction" or purview.
February 16th, 2017 at 4:46 PM ^
Oh, you called for it. Why don't people listen to you?
February 16th, 2017 at 10:39 AM ^
If you count years where they split the Big Ten championship, they have six since 1967. They also have three since 2010.
February 16th, 2017 at 10:54 AM ^
My bad, they had a piece in the 1990 4-way tie where they tripped Desmond.
So 3 from 1967-2007. Very impressive. As many as Gary Moeller had in 5 seasons.
Either way, since 1967 to 2016 they still have 6. Whoopie. We have 21.
February 16th, 2017 at 12:51 PM ^
February 16th, 2017 at 3:57 PM ^
not called. The ball landed lonely by itself on the turf with Dez on the ground. Forever burned into my memory.
February 16th, 2017 at 9:52 AM ^
February 16th, 2017 at 10:07 AM ^
Careful, String. Izzo gonna start crying about you at his next presser.
February 16th, 2017 at 11:11 AM ^
on the idea that he'll wait for the presser.
February 16th, 2017 at 10:13 AM ^
Being that the penn state coaching staff turned a blind eye and enabled another staff member to openly rape young boys, Penn State's football program should have been discontinued period. There are enablers still coaching at osu and ucla. Just garbage not men.
February 16th, 2017 at 10:21 AM ^
We are talking about the alleged raping of a young lady by three football thugs. Who cares what their football records are.
February 16th, 2017 at 10:27 AM ^
Scroll up. Dude basically said: This is going to hurt their recruiting. Magnus responded with: It didn't really hurt Penn State. Stringer said: Penn State had a history to fall back on.
They're talking about football recruiting, not rape. They're alowed to do that.
February 16th, 2017 at 12:54 PM ^
February 16th, 2017 at 3:20 PM ^
If MD gets fired, MSU FB program goes straight to the gutter for years to come. If he doesn't, it's hard to say. Sure, the public can forget things after a couple years, but recruiters won't, they'll be happy to remind parents of recruits that MSU doesn't foster a very family friendly environment. MSU may need some bagmen to save them from recruiting ruin.
February 16th, 2017 at 11:01 AM ^