Mlive: Cole and Hurst are leans to come back (for now)
Would be huge if both of them came back.
http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2016/12/mason_cole_will_look_…
December 4th, 2016 at 8:52 PM ^
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December 4th, 2016 at 9:46 PM ^
He's definitely in between it.
With his dad being a fromer NFL player that will surely allow him to get a accurate picture of the pros/cons of going versus staying.
I mean, in Jake Butt and Jourdan Lewis's case, it's absolutely helped their case in getting into the first round.
December 5th, 2016 at 12:15 AM ^
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December 5th, 2016 at 2:35 AM ^
you'd be surprised that both aren't projected as a 1st round pick by the NFL scouts. They don't view them as a first rounder.
December 5th, 2016 at 6:52 AM ^
December 5th, 2016 at 11:02 AM ^
December 5th, 2016 at 9:18 AM ^
you'd be surprised that Jake Butt is projected in the 28 slot of the first round by draftsite.com. Peppers is #5 to the Jets. Taco is the 3rd pick in the 2nd round (35th overall) with Wormley 56th in the same round. Lewis drops to the 3rd round to San Fran.
December 5th, 2016 at 9:34 AM ^
A great all-around type guy. But, is he really worth the #5 pick? If teams are looking to use hiim mostly as a linebacker, he's got some serious concerns about his ability to cover and tackle in open space. Re-watching some of the Iowa game, the dude flat out arm tackled over and over again and had a ton of trouble getting to the RB.
How many guys in the NFL really excel at that "everything" type game? When you get to the next level, you better be flipping exceptional at one specific thing. So at the end of the day, is a team going to be spending a top 5 pick on someone who's really good at punt returns? Kick returns are null in the NFL.
December 5th, 2016 at 11:51 AM ^
The NFL loves pass rushers and DLmen right now. His advisors will weigh this year's market vs next year. If Hurst is middle 2nd round this year, he's in for a tough decision.
December 5th, 2016 at 12:13 PM ^
aren't the same as what NFL thinks. Jake Butt is stuck in a deep TE class and isn't an explosive athlete like other TEs are (Engram, Howard, Leggett, etc.).
Taco is likely going to be the first Michigan defender drafted and from what I've been hearing, he's almost a lock to go top 15.
December 5th, 2016 at 12:32 PM ^
Neither of those guys are going in the 1st.
However, regardless of round, Taco Charlton is a much better example. He absolutely improved his draft stock by coming back.
December 4th, 2016 at 8:52 PM ^
I'm kinda surprise Cole is an option to jump to the NFL. He's been good, but I thought he'd need another year or two before the NFL was really interested
December 4th, 2016 at 8:57 PM ^
Cole needs to come back.
December 4th, 2016 at 9:25 PM ^
and slow.
Need more time at the M training table and working on speed with Harbaugh.
December 5th, 2016 at 9:51 AM ^
Both had very good seasons, but both would benefit greatly from another year of college ball.
December 4th, 2016 at 9:43 PM ^
He would not be able to come back for 2 years as he has played 3 full seasons already.
December 5th, 2016 at 8:07 AM ^
That kind of sucks if you think Cole needs two more years to be NFL ready. Eligibility is a real impediment under these circumstances.
December 4th, 2016 at 8:54 PM ^
December 4th, 2016 at 8:56 PM ^
Aren't there only three real threats? These two and Jabrill. Pretty sure no one thinks Peppers comes back, nor should he.
December 4th, 2016 at 9:00 PM ^
It's a shame the sport is so injury-prone. Even guys that are not desperate for the early money and would like to come back, feel that they have to leave. The risk of career-ending injury is too great.
December 4th, 2016 at 10:01 PM ^
December 4th, 2016 at 11:19 PM ^
Says the millionaire who doesn't have a job.
December 5th, 2016 at 7:33 AM ^
Only people with money say this.
December 5th, 2016 at 10:08 AM ^
His quote, "All (that having a lot of) money makes possible is for you to stop worrying about money. Then you have freedom to live your life."
It's why college kids like Andrew Luck can come back for a 4th year -- the media prattled on about his love of architecture and his degree at Stanford, but he could come back b/c his dad is a well-off former NFL player/current big-time AD. He didn't have to worry about money.
So...with that in mind, hopefully Mo Hurst Jr has a good relationship with his dad, who I would guess made some nice money in the NFL. But for Cole, I have no idea of his money situation; I think more important is the fact he does not seem NFL-ready and does not seem like he'd be a Day 1 or even Day 2 draft pick, right now.
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/paul_stanley.html
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/paul_stanley.html
December 5th, 2016 at 12:28 PM ^
December 4th, 2016 at 9:00 PM ^
December 4th, 2016 at 9:02 PM ^
Yeah, but the NFL needs to be inclined too.
They are so not ready
December 4th, 2016 at 9:01 PM ^
I feel like we are screwed if either leaves.
December 4th, 2016 at 9:06 PM ^
Mo Hurst is NFL ready. I think he may be undervalued in the draft due to the limited number of snaps he gets. Next year, he will get more opportunities. Mason Cole is not NFL ready in my eyes and would benefit from an extra year.
December 4th, 2016 at 9:19 PM ^
December 5th, 2016 at 2:36 AM ^
neither of them are ever projected as a first rounder.
December 4th, 2016 at 9:19 PM ^
Hurst could definitely be a useful piece in the NFL already but I'd guess mid round pick. Could probably play himself into a pretty high draft pick next year if he comes back though. His decision is tough. Agree on Cole.
December 4th, 2016 at 9:19 PM ^
So Peppers is coming back too????
December 4th, 2016 at 9:22 PM ^
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December 4th, 2016 at 11:05 PM ^
I wouldn't be so down on the O-line next year. Bredeson and Onwenu both make the freshman-to-sophomore leap, which is likely to be huge given how much playing time they got this year. Huge upside to those two.
December 4th, 2016 at 11:24 PM ^
I agree and am feeling optimism tonight. That's a first huh boys? I like this offensive line next year if... they land a few of these big fish recruits they are looking at. All I want for xmas this year is a kick ass running attack next season with young stud offensive lineman and running backs. That includes Najeee Harris. Please Jim make this happen!
December 4th, 2016 at 11:45 PM ^
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December 5th, 2016 at 12:32 AM ^
Drevno's son got an offer from USF today. Graduates from Saline in 2018, but with Taggart being considered....Drevno to USF??? (please no)
December 5th, 2016 at 3:03 AM ^
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December 5th, 2016 at 11:42 AM ^
December 5th, 2016 at 2:20 PM ^
certain we take a substantial step back in the o-line next year. Assuming for a moment that true freshmen are very unlikely to help, we're losing three starters (RG, LG, RT). I think Onwenu is the only guy on the roster with a substantial shot to replace a player (RG?) and be roughly as good.
I wrote an absurdly long email about this to some friends recently. Probably firmly in the tldr category, but what the heck..Summary-
If Cole stays, and is at Center:
LT - Newsome
LG - Bredesen
C - Cole
RG - Onwenu
RT - JBB/Ulizio
If he moves to RT:
LT - Newsome
LG - Bredesen
C - Kugler
RG - Onwenu
RT - Cole
This, of course, assumes Newsome is healthy.
Rob
========
Lots of good material on mgoblog, but some of the most interesting is how effective linemen (especially OL) are as their careers progress. Freshmen OL are rarely (very rarely) of any use whatsoever. In the last 5 years, Michigan has had two guys that were able to play any substantial snaps as true freshmen and be of value, and really, only one was a starter who was decent (Mason Cole). You're talking a lot of guys, and only two (the other is Ben Bredesen this year) were of any value. Bredesen filled in after multiple injuries, but was pretty mediocre to poor. Which (btw) predicts that he will probably be an excellent OL in the future, but he was not that as a freshman. Why do I stress this? Because it is HIGHLY unlikely that any OL that we recruit for next year (and we're in on some excellent ones, though none are committed yet) will be of value in next years line.
For information's sake, there are currently 4 (!) guys committed to UM as offensive tackles. One 4* and 3 3*. I see no chance that any of the currently committed guys play useful snaps next year. None are as good as Cole/Bredesen.
This link is one I'm leaning on for some of the remaining talk.
Depth Chart by class
It just so happens that the only guys we have back next year that played substantial snaps are Mason Cole (average 4*, 2017 Senior), Ben Bredesen (very high 4*, 2017 Sophomore), and maybe Grant Newsome (high 4*, 2017 Junior). I say maybe Newsome because he had a knee injury this year that took him out for the year. Not just any knee injury, but one that had him *in the hospital* for 38 days. It's questionable whether he ever plays again, much less is an effective OL at the most important spot, left tackle.
Let's assume we get lucky and Newsome is healthy and back to full strength. We'd probably do:
LT - Newsome
LG - Bredesen (he played there this year)
C - Cole
RG - ??
RT - ??
Who else is out there who might take one of the remaining (at minimum) two slots?
Tackles: We need to replace Erik Magnuson, who played RT. While not a great player, Magnuson is projected to go in the 5th round of the draft, so that makes him a solid to good college tackle.
Juwann Bushnell-Beatty - JBB was a mediocre 3* project guy who is going to be a junior next year. In 2014/2015/2016, he's been a non-factor. They tried him at LT when Newsome went down, but it was a disaster. That's in his third year in the program. There is literally 0 chance that JBB will be better than Magnuson (RT) or Braden (who moved from guard to play the remaining games at LT) was this year.
Nolan Ulizio - Ulizio was a 2* tackle that Harbaugh grabbed in the month after he took over, so will be a junior. He has played mop-up time the last two years, and has never had his name mentioned in a UFR. The best thing I can say about Ulizio is that he's a big guy that Jim Harbaugh wanted on his football team. No other signs that you would ever want him as a starter on a big time college football offensive line. It would be an amazing upset if Nolan Ulizio was as good in 2017 as Magnuson or Braden.
Patrick Kugler - High 4* who will be a senior in 2017.. It's conceivable that Kugler could replace Cole at center, and Cole could move to RT. Or Cole goes to LT and Newsome to RT. I think Newsome is a more natural LT. I don't think Cole/Kugler/Newsome would be better than Cole/Magnuson/Newsome, so again, no upgrade here.
That's it. Nobody else recruited as a tackle. Ben Bredesen has played LT briefly, and it didn't go well, so they swapped him with Braden to his natural position, guard. So either one of the two guys above takes over as RT, or it's a freshman.
Guards: We need to replace our RG, Kyle Kalis. This year, Kalis was a good to very good RG, consistently among the most effective run and pass blockers according to the UFRs and to PFF. He's projected to go 6th round.
David Dawson - Dawson will be a senior (2013 middling 4* recruit) who has basically never played meaningful snaps. Given our line play in 2014, the fact that he couldn't crack the line in his sophomore year is pretty scary. I don't think it's as clear that he would be a disaster as JBB, but again, he's going to be a senior, and he doesn't ever play. This indicates something about his skill relative to the guys who are playing. Expecting him to be an upgrade over Kalis is not reasonable.
Mike Onwenu - Onwenu is the best news here. He will be a sophomore in 2017. He's an absolute monster physically, and was a high 4* recruited by every major program, much like Bredesen. He's actually played some as OG and on the d-line occasionally this year. Best case, I think it's possible that he's as good as a sophomore as Kalis was as a senior. It's REALLY hard to imagine him being better in 2017 than Kalis in 2016, though it's easy to imagine him far surpassing Kalis in 2018/19.
Stephen Spanellis - High 3* who will be a sophomore in 2017. Very, very large. Not highly regarded, but is a Harbaugh guy. It would not be awful if Spanellis played, but it would mean the ceiling for RG was lowered substantially from Onwenu. I can't imagine Spanellis being a superior RG to Kalis in 2017, or anywhere close to as good.
Patrick Kugler - High 4* who will be a senior in 2017 - Kugler has seen more snaps in replacing injured guys in non-garbage time than Dawson, but he is another guy who hasn't really played in 3 years in the program. He was highly regarded, but just never beat anyone out. If he was going to be a superior RG to Kyle Kalis, then why didn't he do it this year?
So IMO, rational best case (where a freshman isn't magically excellent) in 2017 is this:
LT - Newsome
LG - Bredesen (he played there this year)
C - Kugler
RG - Onwenu
RT - Cole
I just don't see any chance for that line to as good as 2016, much less significantly superior. We're replacing 3 seniors, 2 of which will surely go to the NFL with 2 promising sophomores and a not at all promising senior in Kugler. Could this line (with 2017 recruits replacing Kugler/Cole) be better in 2018 than the 2016 line. YES. But not in 2017.
Also possible:
LT - Newsome
LG - Bredesen (he played there this year)
C - Cole
RG - Onwenu
RT - JBB/Ulizio
Eeek.
If you see Dawson beat out Onwenu, then things are even worse. If Newsome is done, and we need to replace two tackles, then we're taking a flyer on a true freshman, and things are MUCH worse.
December 5th, 2016 at 12:16 AM ^
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December 4th, 2016 at 9:25 PM ^
Cole I'd be surprised if he left, as centers aren't in high demand and he's not necessarily an elite option at either guard or tackle. Might as well stick around. Hurst could go pro, but I'd like to see where he grades out at. From the little I've seen, he's a top-10 tackle, but that might mean 3-4th round, which isn't a sure thing.
December 4th, 2016 at 10:49 PM ^
Centers aren't in high demand, but intelligent, solid centers are in high demand. The issue is that a team with a good one is willing to pay and lock them down for a decade, just plug and forget every year. If he comes back for another year he can possibly become that.
December 5th, 2016 at 6:58 AM ^
December 4th, 2016 at 9:30 PM ^
December 4th, 2016 at 9:34 PM ^
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December 4th, 2016 at 9:37 PM ^
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December 4th, 2016 at 9:36 PM ^
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December 4th, 2016 at 9:46 PM ^