Interesting convo I had with a prominant Chicago HS basketball coach

Submitted by WindyCityBlue on

So, I had the opportunity to speak with a Chicago HS basketball luminary in a casual situation earlier today.  I won't drop his name at this point, but he coached some of Chicago's best talent over the past 30 years at a couple well known Chicago high schools.  He apparently just retired this year.  I asked some very pointed questions about basketball topics, specifically regarding college recruiting, and he (thankfully) did not hold back on giving me some very candid and real answers.  Thought I would share with the board:

1. College bball recruiting is extremely dirty (duh!)

2. While he thinks the NCAA does their best to monitor this, he seems to believe that college coaches are much smarter and can "stay ahead" of the NCAA.  He says there are very sophisticated ways to pay players and their families without suspicion.

3. Coach K - dirty as hell (I was kinda surprised by this)

4. Coach Cal - dirty as hell (duh!)

5. Coach Pitino - dirty as hell (duh!)

5. Izzo - sends his assitants to do his dirty work.  He says he was offered money from Dwayne Stephens on several recent occasions for particular recruits (although I don't know if he actually accepted the money).  He thinks that Izzo is not as bad as others though.  Izzo has a lot of respect in Chicago and is not normally known for playing dirty.  However, his people told him that Izzo's recent recruting success is no doubt from some "below the belt" tactics.

6. The Jabari Parker recruitment was surprising clean on a relative scale.

7. As for Michigan/JB - clean, very clean, but too clean.  Most promimant Chicago HS coaches stay away from Michigan because Michigan won't be part of the "recruiting machine" in Chicago.  They think JB is a good coach but teaches "white boy" basketball.  He basically says Michigan/JB has no respect in Chicago anymore.

I mentioned I was a Michigan fan and talked some more about our program.  He has tons of respect for us becasue he had lots of interaction with Michigan many years ago.  Back in the 90s, Michigan was THE school for Chicago's best talent.  He says we were not a clean program then, but he says that no one was and Michigan was no different than any other major program.  He seems to think we have little to no chance with big time recruits in any major city without getting a little dirty. 

He had some funny things to say about Amaker, but I'll save for later.

Anyway, thought I would share with the board.  What are your thoughts?  Would you be OK with getting a little dirty to get better recruits?  Are you OK with being a super clean program now that can't consistent compete on the big stage?

 

 

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B-Nut-GoBlue

December 27th, 2015 at 11:45 PM ^

More tongue-in-cheek than anything.

Associating Michigan with "white boy ball" must corellate to good shooting...and possibly not having the best caliber of athletes (unfortunately).

Golden State is the most insane shooting team ever so...me stating they're "white boy ball".  They also play good defense.

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BlueMk1690

December 27th, 2015 at 10:19 PM ^

in those comments. It's what the 'eye test' would tell us. That doesn't mean it's true or false of course.

But that's what's good about Beilein's system: you don't need 5 star athletic freaks who can only be purchased through shady avenues to be competitive with it. It's a mid-major system that can be run with mid-major players. It's the perfect fit for this university as I don't think Michigan is willing to have another Fab Five scandal just to get a few more basketball titles.

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snarling wolverine

December 27th, 2015 at 11:49 PM ^

 

The 2011-12 team featured this starting lineup: Tim Hardaway Jr (3-star recruit), Zack Novak, Jordan Morgan, Trey Burke (3-star recruit), and Stu Douglass.  At the time, not many were predicting NBA careers for any of those guys.  

We'll see how many of this year's team end up in the pros.  I'm pretty confident that LeVert is a future NBA guy, and I think Wagner is, too.  For guys like Dawkins, who knows.  

 

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JOHNNAVARREISMYHERO

December 28th, 2015 at 2:56 AM ^

Its the same shit from him everyday.

And besides McGary, none of those players were NBA talent coming in.   To say our team was loaded with NBA talent is delusional.

Kentucky's roster is loaded with NBA talented "guys that are protected as top 10 picks" before they even play a college game.

The only player that was actually wanted by another Big Ten team was Burke.  (He was orginally a Penn State commit).

We had a roster of guys that no one in the fucking Big Ten even recruited and they were NBA talent?

They were developed into NBA talent, they did not come to Michigan NBA talent.  

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gwkrlghl

December 28th, 2015 at 11:54 AM ^

To say our team was loaded with NBA talent is delusional.
How can you say that? That team was loaded with NBA talent. 4 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder in the starting 5. Hard to say for sure it was development. Maybe it was just elite scouting because no one has really developed in the same way since that one class

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93Grad

December 27th, 2015 at 11:53 PM ^

That we can't win with mid major talent which is exactly what I said so I'm not sure why you had trouble understanding me. Now as to your unrelated point about the fact that JB recruited that talent, of course that is correct. It is also a total fluke. JB has never recruited that level of talent before or since. Which is why he has never made another final four appearance.



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Voltron Blue

December 28th, 2015 at 1:31 PM ^

Yeah, he *never* made another Final Four appearance...in TWO whole Final Fours subsequent to that one.  Good f-ing God, do you realize how dumb that is?  And in the one after it, he had Michigan in a down-to-the-wire game in the Elite Eight.

 

It's certainly possible that we will not reach those heights again, but you are making complete non-sequitor arguments while using reasons that are asinine and apply to 99% of college basketball (not making a Final Four in the past two years, or even not making more than one Final Four across a career).

 

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Section6

December 27th, 2015 at 10:20 PM ^

In regard to number 5, I heard from a prominent class A HS coach and former D1 player, who is connected in multiple big cities in Michigan, that there was definitely dirty tactics that got Bridges to flip to MSU. This coach would not tell me specifics but gave me that look and implied some very obvious things.



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Zoltanrules

December 27th, 2015 at 10:21 PM ^

Calipari, Pitino, Calhoun, Beiheim, Pearl, Tarkanian et al got kids who have no business in college to come in droves to their relatively unappealing schools in disproportionate numbers and all have done it with $. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect the dots as see that many AAU coaches are basically pimping their players in return for influencing their players to choose certain schools.

Izzo openly has said that he lost recruits to bag men. Next year may be their best recruiting class in ages. I wish only pain on MSU right now, but hope to believe that it is based on recruits seeing their history of success, not because Izzo became dirty. If he became Calipari like I would hope the rest of the big10 hire the best detectives and get MSU on probation.

Living through the Ed Martin years, I NEVER want UM to again tarnish the school image even if that means losing some more games.

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xtramelanin

December 27th, 2015 at 10:44 PM ^

something about this since he is on the ethics panel.   its not like any of what we're kicking around on this discussion would be a revelation to him.  i'd be very curious to have a candid conversation with him about the depth and breadth of the problem, and what he thinks might be a/some solution to it.   i'd love to hear his candid comments too about some recruits he's lost when he knew that somebody's coach/family/business got some $/benefit/lease/car from a 'very nice' person who just happened to be connected to the university that the lost target ended up attending.

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Richard75

December 27th, 2015 at 10:55 PM ^

JB is the new Gary Williams. Different tactical philosophy, of course, but very much the same in terms of recruiting clean and living with the consequences. Similarly confounding success arc, too. Instead of getting better recruits on the heels of its tourney runs, Maryland got worse—it became a .500 ACC team that was on the bubble every year.



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93Grad

December 27th, 2015 at 11:11 PM ^

I'm surprised that you are surprised about coach K. There have long been rumors about him. Of course Coach Wooden may have been the dirtiest of them all but only perceptions matter I guess



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StephenRKass

December 27th, 2015 at 11:18 PM ^

Is "White Boy" a racist term? If you can say "White Boy," does that mean that "Black Boy" is fair game? And I'd like to hear a definition of "White Boy" vs. "Black Boy."

Personally, I would say that "White Boy" is derogatory and racist. I can live with that . . . but I'd take a gander that anyone using another term contrasted with "White Boy" would earn a trip to Bolivia at the least, and possibly board banning at the worst. PC speech run amok.

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schreibee

December 28th, 2015 at 1:51 AM ^

What does your ENTIRE post even mean cp4?!?!

I truly do not understand your point, or what point you are trying to make?

What if you didn't play HS hoops? Just forget it, you won't understand? And if you did, no explanation necessary?

Where should political correctness be applied? The whole term has become so pejorative I can't think of anyplace anyone would want it applied anymore,,, yet it still has some basic meaning, like don't call women skirts, or Jews Kikes, or blacks any number of terms used in the past (of course in the present when referring to themselves it must be totally OK?).

Which term should white males take offense to? Any? Where is the proper place to employ political correctness? Anyplace at all valid anymore?

Enlighten me. I personally could give a shit if someone called me white boy back in my HS hoops days, but some have simply asked what if the color descriptor was changed from white to another color... what would the result be here or in society in general?

 

 

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cp4three2

December 28th, 2015 at 4:37 AM ^

You literally explain it in your post. White guys who play aren't offended by the term. Playing the game of "what about if you switched it to a different race" is changing the term. Not too complicated. When there's anything, ever, that a talented white person isn't allowed to do because of their race, let me know.



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