Blue_sophie

September 9th, 2015 at 1:18 PM ^

but it sounds like this was a common way for Hoke to start his team meetings.

[edit: reading back to my earlier post, I realize it sounds like I am desparaging Hoke. That was not intended. Both could be seen as somewhat ridiculous. However, I am struck by how you can pretty easily assign a description to a coach even devoid of context. Also, I would be pretty scared to be held personally accountable by Harbaugh; I've had tough bosses in the past, but I cannot imagine he pulls any punches. Much respect to the seniors and captains—I bet they will be key in helping the team make sense of the cultural change.]

Joined: 02/22/2015

MGoPoints: 2766

theyellowdart

September 9th, 2015 at 11:46 AM ^

Reading the quotes from the players, I don't really know if that's all that accurate.  I think, if anything, Harbaugh may have been more aggressive/rough with them than Hoke.

It is, of course, possible Hoke didn't.  Especially when you factor in the play on the field.  Just the process of watching film with the entire offense/defense is a very very common/basic thing.  I'd be surprised if anyone who has played organized football hasn't experienced it.

 

Joined: 09/03/2008

MGoPoints: 1569

Hannibal.

September 9th, 2015 at 12:36 PM ^

If that's the case then you're talking 2018, at the earliest, before we can have a good offensive line and at least one more year before it can be a dominant one. 

There are some tools here to work with.  Harbaugh has got to get something out of the 2012 and 2013 recruiting classes.  It's an absolute must. In this case, patience is not a virtue. 

Joined: 09/09/2008

MGoPoints: 9051

reshp1

September 9th, 2015 at 11:51 AM ^

That 1) Hoke somehow didn't point out mistakes in film study and 2) its going to make a difference on the field. How many of these "I never ID'ed the MIKE" or "Coach Drevno's teaching us how to roll guys 10 yards downfield" anecdotes have we heard? Proof positive of coaching malpractice until the team goes out and gets sacked by letting the MLB go unblocked, or getting moonwalked 2 yards into the backfield, just like they were doing under the last guy. When you're losing, every little thing you're doing is wrong no matter what and therefore everything the new guy does differently, even if it's not actually different, is treated as a revelation. In reality, that's hardly ever the case. Dont get me wrong, I think Harbaugh is a big upgrade in coaching, but its going to show up over a season in little incremental improvements that won't fit in a fluff piece.

Joined: 10/31/2011

MGoPoints: 34170

bgoblue02

September 9th, 2015 at 11:58 AM ^

you mean we go undefeated and win a national championship? 

we were bad last year, real bad.  We gave up sack after sack after sack.  Did we look great vs. Utah?  definitely not.  Did we look improved on the field?  I think we absolutely did especially in areas like pass blocking and receivers getting seperation or heck even have 11 players on the field!   

Joined: 11/12/2009

MGoPoints: 4493

reshp1

September 9th, 2015 at 12:06 PM ^

Our YPC went down, and yes we did actually have a special teams play where we only had 10 players, so... Look, I'm not doubting Harbaugh and I agree we looked better in key ways. It's just that these quotes about how this time is different needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt. Reporters are looking for these quotes 24/7 and what are the players going to do, say, "nah, we aren't changing anything and we expect to suck again?" We fans of course then latch on. Like I said, when you're losing everything you do is wrong and therefore everything that's different is good. I could very easily see people saying how Hoke wasted time by watching film as a whole team and how Harbaugh breaking down immediately into position groups proves he actually knows what he's doing. In reality, both ways are fine and really irrelevant.

Joined: 10/31/2011

MGoPoints: 34170

charblue.

September 9th, 2015 at 12:26 PM ^

madness. First off, I do think he has adopted many of things he learned under Bo. 

And I quote, "You want to be fair with people? Fine. But what are you willing to sacrifice to do it? Do you have the courage to send your top performer packing just because he broke one of your rules? OK, you want to be honest. Who doesn't? But how do you communicate that to your people? How do you show them that you're going to be honest -- no matter what it costs you? 

Everyone wants to set goals, but do you have the guts to let your people, not you, set the standards for your team? I did. It works. And I can show you how." 

Those are the words of Bo on the book jacket of Bo's Lasting Lessons. Now, how does that leadership lesson compare with how Harbaugh is making his players accountable to each other for the standard of expected performance for each game and pointing out their failures when they fall short of that standard and goal. 

I found this most illuminating from a coaching perspective. Of all the press conferences that Harbaugh has given since becoming Michigan's head coach, the one in which he was the most free about talking about details of what he saw, expects and how he feels about certain performance came during his Monday press conference. It was interesting and worth reading the transcript. He wasn't serving as an entertainer, a marketer or an interesting subject. 

He was distilling his throughts about a game that his team played. And he was totally forthcoming, about as candid as he ever gets. And that was refreshing. If you don't recognize the old coach in this guy's coaching dna, you need to look closer. 

Joined: 05/25/2010

MGoPoints: 11482

Reader71

September 9th, 2015 at 12:26 PM ^

I don't know how Hoke handled film sessions, but I do know that Hall of Fame inductee, National Championship winner, multiple time conference champion Lloyd Carr never did full-team film sessions. We immediately broke off into individual units. Those teams did not suffer from a lack of accountability or good coaching. Those OL rooms, in particular, usually featured multiple All-Conference guys and for a very long stretch of time, at least one All-America. It's different strokes for different folks. This is how Harbaugh operates, and we hope it works. But I'm with you -- not every change is for the better. The vast majority of the time, it's just different.

Joined: 08/30/2009

MGoPoints: 22967

Cranky Dave

September 9th, 2015 at 1:00 PM ^

In business. A new manager comes in and most of the time they will do things their way. It's normal. People some people will like the change and perform better and others won't. Managers will want to get their kind of people in the team over time just like with recruiting. Since Harbaugh has a better track record than Hoke had its likely Michigan will start winning more games. it's fun as fans to hear stories about how things are different in practice or film study but these are only better if they work with this coaching staff and this roster.

Joined: 09/08/2012

MGoPoints: 26325

wahooverine

September 9th, 2015 at 1:23 PM ^

YPC went down compard to what?  Last year's season average? Not sure that's a valid comparison.  We have one data point from this year under a new scheme and against what looks to be a top D line that was selling out on the run. YPC is also a function of RB's not hitting holes or bouncing outside when the end is sealed, interceptions, and missing on a couple wide-open deeps shots.  Some singular (but high impact) events mucking up systemic level stats.  All things that are correctable.

Joined: 11/14/2011

MGoPoints: 6799

HAIL-YEA

September 9th, 2015 at 5:40 PM ^

In 2014 we didn't score an offensive touchdown. Hoke was running against dime defenses in the 4th quarter when we had given up. On top of the it was a home game, and Utah defended us differently. They stacked the box daring us to throw all game this year, which im betting was based on advice from Meyer and D'antoni.

Joined: 07/15/2009

MGoPoints: 10809

JonnyHintz

September 9th, 2015 at 12:32 PM ^

I agree to an extent, but in regards to the sack after sack after sack comment, part of that is because Gardner never used his check downs. Rudock is fantastic at hitting his check downs when the play is breaking down or he feels pressure. That alone is something that is going to drastically decrease our sacks. But I also agree that we looked VASTLY improved over last season. Not where we want/need to be yet, but there were improvements across the board, with the possible exception of running backs.

Joined: 01/11/2015

MGoPoints: 48897

reshp1

September 9th, 2015 at 11:55 AM ^

I believe, I'm just getting sick of people thinking these largely irrelevant changes are proof of how bad the previous staff was and how the team is going to instantly be better because they never had a real film session or a productive practice before.

Joined: 10/31/2011

MGoPoints: 34170

Wendyk5

September 9th, 2015 at 12:10 PM ^

Here's why I believe: because Hoke's answer was always "Fergodssakes, this is Michigan." As if things were just going to magically improve because, well, Michigan. There was a passivity to his approach. I think Harbaugh is a driver - he wants to determine how things change and he's going to change them. Hoke expected things to get better; Harbaugh will make them better. 

Joined: 11/20/2008

MGoPoints: 68561

Everyone Murders

September 9th, 2015 at 12:11 PM ^

I believe in the soul, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent overrated crap.  I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.  I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter.

And I believe it's funny when someone whose avatar says "I WANT TO BELIEVE" begins their comment with "I'll believe it when I see it on the field".

 

(And I also believe that the fanbase is engaging in confirmation bias here, to reinforce their belief that Harbaugh's program is starkly different than Hoke's.  Not without cause, since the players' quotes do indicate that film sessions are more intense under Harbaugh.  While I don't think blunt film sessions are the panacea to what ails Michigan, it was good to read more of Harbaugh instilling a culture of accountability.)

Joined: 12/14/2010

MGoPoints: 65552

Hail-Storm

September 9th, 2015 at 12:23 PM ^

we needed any more proof that the previous coaching staff was bad.  The record spoke plenty to that. You are right though, until wins start cummulating, we don't know what changes will work.  

I did see a big difference in the offense from last few years, mainly in play caling and taking advantage of the defense.  The screens were executed nicely.  They passed when they could not run. There were multiple times when the defense was beat on a play call, yet it wasn't executed, so only half the problem was solved.  The line blocking and run game is still a problem.  

 

Joined: 06/07/2010

MGoPoints: 9955

Firstbase

September 9th, 2015 at 11:39 AM ^

Also, I remind myself that most of these guys are players from the old regimes, many of whom may not necessarily fit the Harbaugh mold.

Certainly a work in process, but a move in the right direction.

Coddling Coaches = Passive Players.

Joined: 09/30/2009

MGoPoints: 9514

RoseBowlBound

September 9th, 2015 at 11:35 AM ^

So, you are telling me this is a new concept?  Losing the game should make players feel worse than watching in slow motion HOW they lost the game.  Learning how NOT to lose the next game may actually help players grow and improve.

Joined: 08/16/2010

MGoPoints: 603

Reader71

September 9th, 2015 at 12:50 PM ^

As the resident blowhard fatso: I saw, for the first time in 3 years, an offensive guard effectively pass his rusher off to the tackle next to him. This is a common thing that happens dozens of times during a game, but Michigan has not done it once in 2 years. Not once! They tried. But one of the OL would not have controlled his depth, or left a big hole in between them. Or the guard would be so preoccupied with the man over him that he latched on for dear life and didn't see the inside rusher coming late. So they were left with the guard blocking, the tackle not blocking anyone, and the QB on the ground. There has been progress. Not just in the ends (0 sacks), but in the means to that end (passing guys off! yippee!!), which is everything when dealing with OL. What is profoundly sad is that I am literally giddy, I punched my brother in the arm when I saw it, about a thing that is so basic, so fundamental, that it should be absolutely routine.

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