Brady Hoke says it takes 5-6 years to build a program
Brady talking on his new XM show. Sorry for the Freep Link.
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverine…
For those who don't want to click some notes:
Hoke says it takes 5-6 years to build a program, especially if you are changing an offensive scheme.
Hoke says he expects Michigan to surprise this year.
However, this was after he referenced how Jim Tressel left Urban Meyer with a loaded football team, so he was able to win quickly.
Hoke then said "The recruiting our staff did really fits to the style of offense and style of defense. That's something that's going to help them."-when asked if Harbaugh will have a good first year.
At first I was glad that he expects Michigan to succeed, but he only made it two sentences after being asked about Harbaugh to reference how his recruits will help Jim, when the question had nothing to do with him.
Is Brady bitter and planning to take credit for any Harbaugh success in year one?
August 19th, 2015 at 1:17 PM ^
August 19th, 2015 at 5:51 PM ^
See, I disagree on the defense. They looked good against bad teams (Hey Penn State!) but got smoked by pretty much every good team. And who can forget getting scored on nearly every single time right before the half? Or getting mauled by Michigan State (after the spike thing?) and Ohio State? Or Notre Dame and Utah pretty much shutting things down in the 3Q cause they didn't have to score anymore? They had decent numbers, but they were pretty hollow numbers.
I dunno about the country club atmosphere, but it definitely seems like Hoke just did not have the right mindset to get these guys to overcome any sort of adversity on the field. And from what we are hearing about practice now, it certainly seems like Harbaugh is on another level (but that could just be because he is a maniac).
But I doubt we ever see completely eye to eye on this. Let's just celebrate being pretty close!
August 19th, 2015 at 6:04 PM ^
August 19th, 2015 at 10:35 AM ^
The mark of a competent head coach is to make sure that his team improves every day, in my opinion Brady Home did not do this, 10 men on the field for punt coverage twice in one season is the most glaring example of this lack of improvement.
There were many others over the duration of his regime and ultimately it led to his demise. I maintain that Hoke was Brandon's puppet, hence the lack of a headset on the sideline.
August 19th, 2015 at 10:35 AM ^
The mark of a competent head coach is to make sure that his team improves every day, in my opinion Brady Home did not do this, 10 men on the field for punt coverage twice in one season is the most glaring example of this lack of improvement.
There were many others over the duration of his regime and ultimately it led to his demise. I maintain that Hoke was Brandon's puppet, hence the lack of a headset on the sideline.
August 18th, 2015 at 8:28 PM ^
I have changed my mind on Brady and his radio gig. At first, I thought he would not come across well as we have seen him be less than articulate at press conferences, especially after losses.
However, on this radio show, he will not only have plenty of time to prep and also probably decide content and guests etc., but the show producers want someone to give them "coach speak". Much like the fact that Ditka and Madden and hell even this "schon of a bisch", so i think he can really do well as when he is comfortable he does and can come across as kind of like a teddy bear.
August 18th, 2015 at 8:47 PM ^
Glad to see you've come around on this. Is your opinion more liberated now that the former staff is out, or have you changed your stance? Seems like you were always very pro-Hoke, as a lot of people were, especially players and former players. I'm just curious.
August 18th, 2015 at 9:04 PM ^
August 18th, 2015 at 9:56 PM ^
for me...
August 18th, 2015 at 10:05 PM ^
I agree with most of the above. I do take a bit of an issue with Hoke's latest comments, only because he should know how he will be perceived for making them. It just comes off as sour grapes, and I guess I expected him to be above that. I also get the sense that he no longer has the affinity for Michigan that he once did, which is understandable.
August 18th, 2015 at 10:33 PM ^
August 18th, 2015 at 6:25 PM ^
The reason why Hoke is no longer employed is because of the latter.
August 18th, 2015 at 6:26 PM ^
W-L record shows it. Maybe he wouldn't have ever dominated the Big 10, but I bet he was going to have some good seasons ahead of him. His offense was pretty good.
Hoke won his first year with RR's recruits and then it took him 3 years to destroy the program.
It may take3 to 5 years to build a program, I believe that to be true, but year by year improvement is mandatory for that to happen.
Hoke just took the program in a different direction, he looked lost, he had no clue, he had no idea what to do, during practice and it was embarrassing to see during the games.
He is a good position coach, no more, no less.
August 18th, 2015 at 7:00 PM ^
August 18th, 2015 at 7:22 PM ^
just false
August 18th, 2015 at 7:47 PM ^
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August 18th, 2015 at 9:06 PM ^
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August 18th, 2015 at 9:58 PM ^
Hell, Hoke even scored more points against OSU, and his offenses were gutter trash. Methinks those "advanced stats" are inflated by running up the score on cupcake opponents like BGSU and Delaware State.
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August 19th, 2015 at 12:36 AM ^
August 19th, 2015 at 10:41 PM ^
One of the FG kickers under RR was actually pretty good under Hoke - Gibbons.
August 20th, 2015 at 12:53 AM ^
Rich Rod offense moved the ball on any defense but couldn't score because they don't have a good FG kicker or they turn the ball over. There is a reason why they were rated at #2 in the country despite the fact they don't score much which attributes to bad luck more than anything.
August 18th, 2015 at 6:27 PM ^
What's his excuse for horrible special teams?
August 18th, 2015 at 6:37 PM ^
He only has 10 fingers!
August 18th, 2015 at 6:27 PM ^
August 18th, 2015 at 7:19 PM ^
you could have given him 20 years and it would not have mattered....highly touted recruits got worse for every year he coached them. There was no "coaching" happening at all by the looks of it....the guy could not teach.....at all.
Kind of an important part of the job if you ask me.
August 18th, 2015 at 8:50 PM ^
By all accounts he's a hell of a dline coach, and we've been moving the right direction there. The problem was no high level vision and control of the team and how to get where they wanted to go. I bet Hoke ends up back coaching dline again, maybe the NFL gives him a shot there, who knows.
August 18th, 2015 at 9:58 PM ^
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August 19th, 2015 at 4:42 PM ^
I respectfully disagree....our D-line has the potential but did not exactly light up opposing offenses. It's nowhere near the D-lines of old.
August 18th, 2015 at 6:27 PM ^
August 18th, 2015 at 6:34 PM ^
See the kids win for a change. Harbaugh!!!!
August 18th, 2015 at 6:38 PM ^
August 18th, 2015 at 6:47 PM ^
Elite coaches dont need 5-6 years.
Utah before Urban and with.
| 1997 | 1997 | Ron McBride | WAC | Mountain | T–2nd | 6–2 | 6–5 | — | — | — |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1998 | 1998 | Ron McBride | WAC | Pacific | T–3rd | 5–3 | 7–4 | — | — | — |
| 1999 | 1999 | Ron McBride | MWC† | T–1st | 5–2 | 9–3 | Won Las Vegas Bowl vs. Fresno State Bulldogs, 17–16^ | — | — | |
| 2000 | 2000 | Ron McBride | MWC | T–5th | 3–4 | 4–7 | — | — | — | |
| 2001 | 2001 | Ron McBride | MWC | T–3rd | 4–3 | 8–4 | Won Las Vegas Bowl vs. USC, 10–6^ | — | — | |
| 2002 | 2002 | Ron McBride | MWC | T–5th | 3–4 | 5–6 | — | — | — | |
| 2003 | 2003 | Urban Meyer# | MWC† | 1st | 6–1 | 10–2 | Won Liberty Bowl vs. Southern Miss, 17–0^ | 21 | 21 | |
| 2004 | 2004 | Urban Meyer# | MWC† | 1st | 7–0 | 12–0 | Won Fiesta Bowl vs. Pittsburgh, 35–7^ | 4 | 5 |
LSU before Saban
| 1995 | Gerry DiNardo | 7-4-1 (4-3-1) | Independence Bowl | |
| 1996 | Gerry DiNardo | 10-2 (6-2) | Peach Bowl | 12 |
| 1997 | Gerry DiNardo | 9-3 (6-2) | Independence Bowl | 13 |
| 1998 | Gerry DiNardo | 4-7 (2-6) | ||
| 1999 | Gerry DiNardo | 3-8 (1-7) |
LSU with Saban
| Season | Coach | Record | Bowl Game | Ranking |
| 2000 | Nick Saban | 8-4 (5-3) | Peach Bowl | 22 |
| 2001 | Nick Saban | 10-3 (6-3) | Sugar Bowl | 7 |
| 2002 | Nick Saban | 8-5 (5-3) | Cotton Bowl | |
| 2003 | Nick Saban | 13-1 (8-1) | Sugar Bowl | 1 |
| 2004 | Nick Saban | 9-3 (6-2) | Capital One Bowl | 16 |
Bama before Saban and with
| 6 | 2010 | SEC | 10 | 3 | 0 | .769 | 18.31 | 4.69 | 1 | 1 | 10 | Nick Saban (10-3) | Capital One Bowl-W | |
| 7 | 2009 | SEC | 14 | 0 | 0 | 1.000 | 23.69 | 6.62 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Nick Saban (14-0) | BCS Championship-W | |
| 8 | 2008 | SEC | 12 | 2 | 0 | .857 | 16.15 | 2.93 | 24 | 1 | 6 | Nick Saban (12-2) | Sugar Bowl-L | |
| 9 | 2007 | SEC | 7 | 6 | 0 | .538 | 8.09 | 4.40 | 16 | Nick Saban (7-6) | Independence Bowl-W | W-L-T adjusted to 2-6 by NCAA. | ||
| 10 | 2006 | SEC | 6 | 7 | 0 | .462 | 5.64 | 4.03 |
Mike Shula (6-6) Joe Kines (0-1) |
Independence Bowl-L | W-L-T adjusted to 0-7 by NCAA. | |||
| 11 | 2005 | SEC | 10 | 2 | 0 | .833 | 12.89 | 1.97 | 4 | 8 | Mike Shula (10-2) | Cotton Bowl-W | W-L-T adjusted to 0-2 by NCAA. | |
| 12 | 2004 | SEC | 6 | 6 | 0 | .500 | 5.77 | 0.68 | Mike Shula (6-6) | Music City Bowl-L | ||||
| 13 | 2003 | SEC | 4 | 9 | 0 | .308 | 5.27 | 7.27 | 21 | Mike Shula (4-9) |
Florida before Spurrier...then with Spurrier
| 1986 | Hall | 6–5 | 2–4 | I | ||||
| 1987 | Hall | 6–6 | 3–3 | L Aloha | ||||
| 1988 | Hall | 7–5 | 4–3 | W All-American | ||||
| 1989 | Hall/Darnell | 7–5 | 4–3 | L Freedom | ||||
| Steve Spurrier (SEC) (1990–2001) | ||||||||
| 1990 | Spurrier | 9–2 | 6–1 | 1st | Ineligible | I | 13 | |
| 1991 | Spurrier | 10–2 | 7–0 | 1st | L Sugar | 7 | 7 | |
| 1992 | Spurrier | 9–4 | 6–2 | East | W Gator | 11 | 10 | |
| 1993 | Spurrier | 11–2 | 7–1 | East | W Sugar | 4 | 5 | |
| 1994 | Spurrier | 10–2–1 | 7–1 | East | L Sugar | 7 | 7 | |
| 1995 | Spurrier | 12–1 | 8–0 | East | L Fiesta | 3 | 2 | |
| 1996 | Spurrier | 12–1 | 8–0 | East | W Sugar | 1 | 1 | |
The formatting for Oklahoma wikipedia page is wacky but the 4 years before Stoops showed up they were 3-8, 4-8, 5-6, 7-5. He had a NC in year 2, followed by three 2 loss seasons immediately after. Same thing Hoke could have done if he was any good.
Ask Bo about waiting 5-6 years for high level success. Yes diff era but all the guys higher up in this post were in the same era as Hoke.
Elite coaches have their mediocre teams - full of 5-6-7 win years before they show up, humming by year 3 at most. Bama, LSU, Florida, Utah, Oklahoma were all in the same position or worse than what Hoke inherited. He is making excuses.
August 18th, 2015 at 6:51 PM ^
Elite coaches usually show great improvement in year 2 when they are taking over a team that hasn't been utter crap.
Yeah, I know Harbaugh didn't do well at Stanford until year 3 and didn't go 12-1 until year 4 but he took over a team that went 1-11, so he was truly starting from scratch.
August 18th, 2015 at 7:04 PM ^
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August 18th, 2015 at 7:04 PM ^
August 18th, 2015 at 7:19 PM ^
August 19th, 2015 at 1:08 PM ^
By that definition of "program building"... I'm just not all that interested in "program building".
I don't care how well a coach prepares the team for after he leaves. I care what he does while he is there.
Guy that average 10 wins a season with a couple national championships then the program crashes when he leaves >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guy who averages 7 wins a season and no BCS games but program continues at same success rate after he leaves
August 19th, 2015 at 1:20 PM ^
August 18th, 2015 at 8:08 PM ^
August 18th, 2015 at 8:01 PM ^
August 18th, 2015 at 9:34 PM ^
My user name at 247sports is "Beer Baron". You can find links to things I've posted here.
Despite the fact that my signiture there links my blog and twitter account, both of which have Space Coyote in them, "Franz Schubert "(who also has a different identity on 247) thinks he's calling me out by calling me "Beer Baron" here. He happens to follow me over here and call me "Beer Baron" every chance he gets here like it's supposed to be some sort of secret.
Franz, who are you on 247? I think I know, but find it funny you only try to call me out over here despite you also having a different user name.
If others are interested in stalking me, here's my account on Eleven Warriors, and SBNation, and my own blog.
August 19th, 2015 at 7:21 AM ^
So what I take from this is that you're the real RollDamnTide?
August 19th, 2015 at 10:55 AM ^
August 19th, 2015 at 12:55 PM ^
So I can't post on Michigan's site. I can only post on the blue board where I did when I had VIP (back when I used to write for the 247 Michigan site). I post content on RCMB to link to my site and get more hits for my site basically, because it's the biggest collection of MSU fans, and therefore, the best for my blog.
Space Coyote and Beer Baron are both The Simpsons references, and my two favorite episodes of The Simpsons. Space Coyote has the added benefit as it is a reference to what I do for a living. Beer Baron has the added benefit of what I like to do sometimes in my free time.
August 19th, 2015 at 1:03 PM ^
It does take 5 or 6 years to build a program.
... but Hoke could have been here 20 years and still wouldn't have built one.
It doesn't take 5 or 6 years to generate a few better than historic norm teams - and Hoke completely failed at that.
Coaches that are going to "build a program" have laid a strong foundation in the first few years, Hoke got worse.
August 18th, 2015 at 6:36 PM ^
Some days I wish Hoke had a Mgoblog account so I could downvote him.
August 18th, 2015 at 8:58 PM ^
I can picture him reading a critical comment and saying "welllll, you know, I wouldn't say that, no" to his monitor.