Would you rather have Rashan Gary or Jaylen Brown?
Why? Are they playing different games?
Yea, that doesn't really make any sense. Does a DT not demand double teams, free up linebackers, and allow for blitzing to be more effective at the professional level too?
April 28th, 2015 at 12:56 AM ^
I agree that DT is a very important position in football, but the comparision to basketball makes it obvious that you're wrong about this. A DT is still just 1 of 11 people on a defense. He's just 1 of 22 starters. It's simply not possible for a football player to have the kind of impact a basketball player can have.
This should be clear just from watching the games. Take the greatest defensive tackle of all time and put him on a bad NFL team and that bad NFL team is still bad. Maybe they approach mediocrity. Take a bad NBA team and put Michael Jordan or Lebron James on it and that is instantly a pretty good team. Lebron is worth 40 wins by himself. We saw this after Lebron left the Cavs. That's the equivalent of 8 NFL games. There is no defensive tackle in history that can turn a 4-12 squad into a 12-4 squad by himself.
We learn this every year in the NBA draft. There is a reason why the NBA has a huge tanking problem even with a lottery while the NFL doesn't even without one. Because a single guy in basketball can make a franchise relevant for a decade. You just can't do that in football. At least not with anything but a QB.
It's really pretty simple. Smaller numbers mean single guys can dominate more.
You also have to keep in mind, underclassmen linemen don't really get a whole lot of playing time in general. A freshman bball player can lead you to a national championship. We are realistically looking at 1-2 years of Brown, and 2-3 years of Gary.
April 28th, 2015 at 12:03 AM ^
Brown without a doubt. 1 elite player in basketball has a bigger impact than 1 elite player in football.
Michigan football in Harbaugh's hands will return to greatness, I have no doubt. Michigan basketball will be great next year with or without Brown but if he does come, we are a truly elite team and I think it establishes us as an elite basketball PROGRAM. We have had a great past 5 years but I'd like to see this be the norm for Michigan basketball.
April 28th, 2015 at 12:03 AM ^
April 28th, 2015 at 12:06 AM ^
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April 28th, 2015 at 12:07 AM ^
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April 28th, 2015 at 12:15 AM ^
April 28th, 2015 at 12:17 AM ^
Gary and here's why:
Jaylen Brown is an incredible talent and would make up 20% of our starting lineup rather than less than 5%. There may be a few aspects of his game that need improving before he goes to the league (left hand is still catching up to the right, can always improve perimeter shooting), but he would have a great impact and make us an even better team. However, I have no qualms with our current roster, nor the future of our program, with John Beilein at the helm and Lavall Jordan waiting in the wings. We have talent to win now and recruiting will take care of itself. We have a top 5 staff (IMO, yeah biased) and coach to be competitive, despite a kid's star rating.
All of the above isn't to say that Harbaugh or anyone on his staff isn't as good at improving talent and we need to bring in kids who need less coaching. Not at all. If Gary didn't play the 3 tech this would be a pretty easy decision in favor of Brown. However, I would argue that a dominant 3 tech is the greatest weapon in college football. The strength of your lines will determine your success every year and the strength of your defensive line will often times be the deciding factor against your most talented opponents. The last two national champions could each make a case for having the best defensive line in the country. Rashan Gary is a freakbeast. He runs a 4.7 forty at 6'4 290lbs. He is as athletic as any pure DE in this class and as big as most DT's. He stops the run and collapses the pocket with equal ferocity. In Durkin's shape-shifting defense (4-3, 4-2-5, 3-4), Gary is a DL that may never have to leave the field.
Another plus of adding Gary is the prestige of the number 1 overall recruit. Yes, Brown holds the same title. However, with more spots in each recruiting class, a star football recruit has a lot greater chance of swaying more recruits to your school than a star basketball kid (especially this year in talent-rich New Jersey as we try to pull Hawkins, Mitchell, Johnson, etc.). Once Peppers reaches stardom and Gary follows, the truly elite talents every year will know that Michigan is again a place that it's okay for stars to go, and that they can reach their potential here.
Final piece: we know we would be getting Gary for at least 3 years, and with his skill, barring any injuries, he would have an impact all 3 of those years. Brown is likely a 1-and-done. Unless that meant a for sure National Championship in Brown's one year (it would give us a shot), I would prefer 3 years of five star contributions to 1.
All that being said, I think we get both. My fandom has had an incredible 2015 and it can't stop now! Long live Jihn Harbaughlein, the greatest two-headed coaching monster in all the land (just don't tell that to Tork Dantonizzo).
1. Get both.
2.???
3. Profit.
April 28th, 2015 at 12:25 AM ^
April 28th, 2015 at 12:27 AM ^
As people have mentioned, a 5 star bball player can make a much bigger impact, plus from the impression's I get, the top bball recruits don't flame out nearly as much as the football ones. Just look at all the high ranked "star's" we've had over the past few years that have proven to be total busts....Campbell, Morris, Kalis, Green, and Pipkins to name a few (and that's just within the past few years). Meanwhile our basketball program turns no-names into great players. (Burke, Morgan, Stauskas, etc.) I'd take a 5* in basketball over football every day of the week and twice on Sunday even though I'm a much bigger Michigan football fan than basketball one.
how you got sent to the deepest, darkest regions of Bolivia. After seeing you trash 4 current members of the Michigan Football Team, your true colors are obvious.
I'm sure all 4 are wonderful human beings who will do great things in life. But football wise, I'm simply calling a spade a spade. Doesn't mean that they are bad people, but has any of them lived up to their hype coming out of high school? absolutely not (and that can't even be argue with) and I'm not sure they've lived up to a 2 or 3 star billing (maybe Green?). Again, I'm not trashing who they are. I'm not sure how what I said is trashing anyway. I've seen tons of comments way worse than mine in the threads on gamedays.So what's the difference?
Auerbach really isn't setting the bar very high.
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A. Aren't
B. Got stuck playing for our programs worst coach in 50 years
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April 28th, 2015 at 12:38 AM ^
easy, Jaylen Gary.
April 28th, 2015 at 12:51 AM ^
Brown. Put Brown on our team and we are instant national title contenders. No football recruit has that kind of immediate impact...even an incredible QB takes time to develop.
And that's assuming you can even identify elite football recruits with the kind of accuracy you can identify elite basketball recruits with, which I don't think matches reality.
Recruiting Profiles of Past 10 #1 Overall NFL Picks (per Rivals)
Clowney - 5*, #1 SDE, #1 overall
Fisher - 2*, unranked
Luck - 4*, #4 P-QB, #68 overall
Newton - 5*, #1 DT-QB, #28 overall
Bradford - 3*, #12 P-QB, unranked
Stafford - 5*, #1 P-QB, #6 overall
Long - 4*, #12 OT, unranked
Russell - 4*, #6 P-QB, #79 overall
Williams - 4*, #11 SDE, unranked
Smith - 2*, unranked
Recruiting Profiles of Past 10 (U.S.-based) #1 Overall NBA Picks (per Rivals)
Wiggins - 5*, #1 SF, #1 overall
Bennett - 5*, #1 PF, #7 overall
Davis - 5*, #1 PF, #2 overall
Irving - 5*, #2 PG, #4 overall
Wall - 5*, #1 PG, #1 overall
Griffin - 5*, #6 PF, #23 overall
Rose - 5*, #1 PG, #3 overall
Oden - 5*, #1 C, #1 overall
Howard - 5*, #1 C, #1 overall
James - 5*, #1 SG, #1 overall
Gary looks every bit the part (seriously, the highlights of him from the NFTC over the weekend are incredible, watch them if you haven't) but this football stuff is not a science the way basketball is.
April 28th, 2015 at 10:37 AM ^
also the only real pick is both
April 28th, 2015 at 12:59 AM ^
You add a top NBA prospect to what we currently have and you're looking at a possible national championship. Gary would be great, but I don't think it's even comparable.
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They both offer so much.
Who the Fuck Cares?
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I mean I would miss eating a perfectly grilled steak, but bacon is a food group onto itself. So the answer is pork. Sorry beef.
It's a pretty easy choice (not that we can make it!)
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Would you rather get an amazing orange, or an amazing apple?
I choose avocado?
There are so many good arguments for both Gary and for Brown. Many of which are above. Honestly, I don't think you can lose with either.
The thing is, I am just thrilled Michigan is in the running for both. That's incredible. I would gladly see either come to Michigan. Football has been down more. However, Brown would be an almost instant impact player.
The first thing I would say is that I am glad to defer to the coaches. I don't know either player, but I would want both to fit into the culture Harbaugh and Beilein are building and already have. If, in terms of character or academics, either weren't a fit, I'd rather have the other.
If I was forced to choose, I would go with Brown. I think he legitimately is interested in a strong school academically. This might mean two years here. More than that, I'd like to see Beilein get a few more top 10 players. IIRC, Mitch McGary has been our only really highly rated player. And Brown is rated even higher. I'd like for Beilein to regularly be in the running and start winning some recruiting battles for players in the top 10 - 20 range. We already know that Beilein is great at finding diamonds in the rough and unknowns that were overlooked elsewhere. Add to that a consensus great player every year, and we're talking about moving up to the same level as the bluebloods of basketball. Lastly, I don't know how much time Beilein has left. I am confident that Harbaugh is going to do well, and be here for a while. I'd like to see Basketball have consistent success now, under Beilein. That would help when we inevitably have to transition to a new coach whenever Beilein retires.