OT: Lionel Messi is Impossible
For all those who are still up for some association football talk, even after the valiant-but-sad exit of Team USA, a data-driven argument for why Messi is the best in the world (and maybe the best ever). From FiveThirtyEight:
By now I’ve studied nearly every aspect of Messi’s game, down to a touch-by-touch level: his shooting and scoring production; where he shoots from; how often he sets up his own shots; what kind of kicks he uses to make those shots; his ability to take on defenders; how accurate his passes are; the kind of passes he makes; how often he creates scoring chances; how often those chances lead to goals; even how his defensive playmaking compares to other high-volume shooters.
And that’s just the stuff that made it into this article. I arrived at a conclusion that I wasn’t really expecting or prepared for: Lionel Messi is impossible.
It’s not possible to shoot more efficiently from outside the penalty area than many players shoot inside it. It’s not possible to lead the world in weak-kick goals and long-range goals. It’s not possible to score on unassisted plays as well as the best players in the world score on assisted ones. It’s not possible to lead the world’s forwards both in taking on defenders and in dishing the ball to others. And it’s certainly not possible to do most of these things by insanely wide margins.
But Messi does all of this and more....
He's always been pretty awesome to watch. If Argentina isn't impressed I'd gladly take him. Yes I know it's against the rules but it wasn't realistic anyway.
That's a charitable view of the US offense. Belgium outshot us something like 16-2 at some point late in regulation.
Belgium's only given up two goals in this World Cup. One was on a penalty kick and the other in the 107th minute today.
Yeah, Belgian has the best central defender in the world and probably a top 3 backline.
They can beat Argentina and I think they will.
I see him like I see Lebron. Is he the best now? Hell yes, will he be the best EVENTUALLY? Probably.
His low center of gravity really helps him work the ball quickly. The guy is amazing how he slips through the tiniest of spaces.
I do not see Lebron surpassing Jordan. I see him as the best of his generation. Bird/Magic, Shaq during his prime, Kobe taking the mantle for a bit, etc… Also, I don't think Tim Duncan gets enough credit for his longevity/career performance in these conversations.
I don't understand the comparison.
Are you saying Kobe > Lebron so Messi > CR7? or the other way?
I like the Kobe comparison, but the Jeter thing is off. Great captain and love him but not a Barry Bonds, Dennis Eckersly, Willie Mays, Roberto Clemente type talent. Messi is in the later category.
Robertson predates MJ not sure being too young is an issue. The Big "O" was the first player to average 10 assists/g and the only player to average a triple double for a season. His lack of rings is due to the Celtics dominance in a league with limited player movement. I am not sure Jordan would have as many rings if the Bulls had to build a team around him with the limited player movement exhibited during Robertson's era. Regardless, they are both great players and being from different era's it's hard to compare the two.
TEAMS win championships. PLAYERS win awards. IMO, i absolutely agree with the above poster, Oscar Robertson was the best ever in the NBA.
If players are gauged on championships, then Barry Sanders and Dan Marino suck. Horrible. Losers.
I simply cannot stand the line of thinking that a player is not great because he did not win a championship, therefore, cannot be included in a 'best all time' conversation. Its naive.
Kobe>>Jeter.
Unless Lebron wins like 5 more championships, including a 3-peat, he ain't passing Jordan. Crazy to think he's turning 30 this year.
This is the argument I never understand about people claiming LeBron is the best player of all time. They "defend" Lebron by caliming Jordan's teams were better than Lebron's. On paper, Bosh and Wade are easily preferred teammates than Pippen and Who exactly? While Pippen is a top 50ish player all-time, the 3rd best player on Jordan's team is a toss-up between Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman, and Steve Kerr. It becomes painfully obvious Jordan is the better player by elevating his teams to greatness.
LOL Chris Bosh is garbage. And Dwayne Wade plays crippled half of the time it seems. Not too mention Jordan had the greatest coach ever.
Let me pull what I believe to be one of the most compelling things in this article:
That goals above average stat was interesting too. He takes fewer shots than Ronaldo, but his typical shot is also an average of about six yards closer to the goal. I admit to not being as in tune with soccer stats as I am with those in other sports, so this relationship was interesting to me.
Very cool analysis actually. Thanks for sharing this.
It is a shame that the team struggles so much to play effectively together. Belgium looked 10 times better than argentina did today. I'm rooting for argentina, but don't know if they can match the consistency and teamwork Belgium brings.
bald eagle ass, i don't see soccer gaining enough popularity for us to be a real contender. it's just not that fun to watch us play terrible quality soccer and fight for our lives on the world stage.
edit: world class field player. howard is world class. but it's not very american to get shelled for 99% of a game.
you're best bet is to sell him to a big time club ship him off to europe
you replied and now i can't edit that terrible missuse of you're
Damn, then I guess he's out of luck, I have no connections rest of EU...Does that mean Jurgen should be pushing for Zelalem to get out of there too?
...given my dislike of the English National Team (sense of entitlement + no rational reason to feel entitled), I don't think it's quite an accurate assessment. The style of play you see the English use is actually quite widespread in European and South American football, and much more common that the possession game employed by Barcelona and Spain.
The difference between England and, say, the Netherlands, isn't so much of tactics, but of effectiveness. England is just bad and Holland is just, well, better.
...is structurally terrible. They have poor-quality youth programs and an insular culture of entitlement and vilification that destroys any progress they do, from time-to-time, make.
I was just saying that the long-derided English tactics (emphasis on running, long crosses, etc.) are quite prevalent now, mostly thanks to the influence of Jose Mourinho. England just happen to be bad at their own preferred style of play.
It may already be too late. The top Latin and European players begin training their kids at conception.
getting shelled on the offensive (ie not on our own soil) is not the same as getting shelled while on defense (ie our own side of the field)
Atrocious figures.
If you are going to use two shades of greys to distinguish your categories, they should never overlap like that.
and in my opinion the two best players in the world by a fairly wide margin, but CR is the better of the two in my books. If you are looking at it from a purely statistical perspective Messi may be better (I don't know because I haven't bother to do that and I don't believe everything I read just because it's a published article) but when I watch the two fo them play I find CR far more fun to watch.
I can't say there is much difference when you look at how well they move without the ball, how well they set up their own shot, how well they finish when given the chance, how well they take free kicks etc. Where I find the difference is when the ball is at their feet and they are runnnig at defenders and how well they are with the ball in the air. That's where I find CR is slightly better than Messi.
Again, I think one can easily make a case for either one to be considered the best in the world but people would be wise to completely ignore any statement that starts off by saying "Messi is better than CR and it isn't even close" or vice versa because those people clearly don't know anything about soccer. Both are great players and this will be debated for a long time to come.