Goodman claims sources from the program say Juwan's culture is bad

Submitted by MGoLow on December 13th, 2023 at 9:31 AM

Here's the link to the discussion with Hummel.

 

Basically, he says sources from the program told him Jace was being a jerk to a trainer. Sanderson didn't like it and said "that's why the culture is how it is around here" or words to that effect. Juwan Howard then went toe-to-toe with Sanderson in full view of the team. Maybe the worst part is Goodman claims his sources in the program say many are unhappy with the culture of the team on and off the court and have been for a while.

Goodman is a bit of a blowhard but Hummel is usually excellent. Don't shoot the messenger.

Basketball

mgogobermouch

December 13th, 2023 at 11:28 AM ^

So we hired a super-popular former player to be our head coach.  At first the program did extremely well, but then there were a couple of disappointing seasons, rumors of a poor culture, and worries that the coach's personality was a detriment to the program.

I have some vague memory of something similar happening in the football program.  Didn't we also hire a super-popular former player who had a lot of initial success.  But the seasons always had disappointing endings and there were rumors that his ultra-competitive and kind of weird personality was driving off players.  And then there was a really bad season and half of this board was extremely angry at the athletic director for not firing him and replacing him with Matt Campbell.

How did that end up?  I wonder if there are perhaps some lessons to be learned from that experience?

 

Joined: 10/23/2017

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mgogobermouch

December 13th, 2023 at 11:29 AM ^

Sarcasm aside, before I'm negged into Bolivia, let just say what I think the lessons are.  It's not that Howard might be as good a coach as Harbaugh.  Harbaugh is one of the all time greats.  It's just statistically unlikely that you get a coach like that, no matter how good your search process is, or how much money you have that you are able to commit to a program.

The lessons as I see it are:

(1) Fans are almost always too impatient to get rid of a coach who has a couple of bad seasons.  It always seems reasonable at the time, and there always seem to be good reasons beyond "It's a bad season", but this is an instance where one should not trust one's instincts.

(2) Judging the football program by the Covid year where normal practice rhythms didn't apply was a particularly bad idea, and judging the basketball program by a year where the coach misses a huge initial chunk of the season due to heart surgery might turn out to be a similarly bad idea for similar reasons.

Frustrating as it is, I think it's probably a bad idea to fire Howard before the end of next season.

Joined: 10/23/2017

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snarling wolverine

December 13th, 2023 at 12:19 PM ^

If Juwan had previously turned around two college basketball programs and then taken an NBA franchise to the Finals before coming here - and if he had never confronted (Maryland) or slapped (Wisconsin) another coach ... then the comparison would be more apt.

The performance trend is not good, but you're completely tap dancing around the actual reason why he might lose his job.  This isn't even about the team's performance (troubling though it is).  This is about the fact that our head basketball coach seems to have an anger problem, which has manifested itself multiple times. 

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mgogobermouch

December 13th, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^

Sure -- I acknowledge the situations are different.  And in particular, there's an argument that Harbaugh deserved a longer time because of there were decades of evidence of him being a outstanding coach while there is nothing comparable with Howard. 

Though to be honest, I'm not 100% sure where I come down on this.  You could also make an argument that rookie coaches are bound to make mistakes as they find their feet as head coaches and ought to be given extra leeway because of this.  Not for the sake of fairness, but because you don't want to fire someone who's has a lot of potential because he's making mistakes that he learns from and won't repeat.

But I don't think I'm tap dancing around the anger issue.  What I'm saying is that with Harbaugh people thought that they were arguing that he had to go because he was an ultra competitive weirdo (and thus building a bad culture).  But in retrospect, it turns out we're all fine with him being an ultra competitive weirdo and so are the players.

For the first few years, the blog was full of stories about how the players absolutely loved Howard, and full of pictures of him doing things like grabbing towels and drying sweat stains from the court like he was a volunteer ball boy, and not an ultrarich highly paid coach.  Right now we think we're upset about anger problems but in a couple of years of winning we might all love his spontaneity, unfiltered personality, and fiery temper.  We just shouldn't trust our gut reactions.

(Don't get me wrong -- obviously if Howard physically hits someone, he has to be fired on the spot.  But there's no accusation of that.)

 

Joined: 10/23/2017

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jmblue

December 13th, 2023 at 12:11 PM ^

This is a reach.

Jim Harbaugh replaced Brady Hoke.  We had gone 7-6 and 5-7 the two previous years.  Every season he's been here (the Covid year excluded) has been better than Hoke's last two seasons.  Even after the notorious Covid year, Harbaugh brought in a loaded recruiting class featuring a star QB.

Juwan Howard succeeded John Beilein.   We had gone 33-8 and 30-7 the two seasons before.  Only one of his four seasons to date has been comparable to that, and the trendline has been quite poor.  Last year we were 18-16, and we're currently 5-5.  We haven't done too strongly on the recruiting front, either.

That's not even getting into the matter of their personal conduct (for which Howard is currently operating under a no-tolerance policy for aggression).

Joined: 11/07/2008

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RobM_24

December 13th, 2023 at 10:51 AM ^

And he left -- because he didn't like the landscape of college basketball.

People act like Beilein got let go. He left, because he didn't like college basketball anymore. The recruiting, early departures, transfers, etc wore him out. He didn't even have to deal with COVID and NIL. The job sucks. Juwan might not be thriving, and he might not be the guy -- but who is the guy? Who wants to sign up for all the problems listed above, while also dealing with the University shooting down half your transfers in an era when transfers keep your program afloat?

Joined: 01/27/2014

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RobM_24

December 13th, 2023 at 11:37 AM ^

People who use terms like "we had a guy" ... or "things were good with the old coach" ... Yeah, that's great. Things were great. Nobody wanted that coach to leave and nobody forced him out. He left, abruptly, with no succession plan. The same guy who built all of that, is the guy that bounced and left the program in this position. And he did so because he didn't want to deal with all the stuff Juwan has been navigating since day 1.

If the culture was so great and the program was so amazing, why did Beilein leave? I would suggest that it's because present-day college basketball is almost impossible to navigate. And it was overly stressful for a guy who was a HC for 40 years or whatever. Imagine being a first time HC, having all those same problems, adding NIL and COVID on top, and then having your own University block transfers from P5 schools. Is Juwan handling the stress well? Probably not. But he's fighting the fight that the last coach didn't want to fight anymore -- and that's why I support him. 

Joined: 01/27/2014

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MightyMatt13

December 13th, 2023 at 9:36 AM ^

Wouldn't have expected Jace to be that type, but entitlement can be a hell of a drug.

I expect Juwan is gone one way or another, probably not for any of this, but eventually for performance related reasons. Just hoping this program doesn't lose Sanderson too.

Joined: 02/26/2012

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MGlobules

December 13th, 2023 at 11:12 AM ^

As always, people are running with shreds of the story, and leaping to the conclusions that please them, lemming-style as becomes sports fans. But they're not even getting the story right! At least watch the stinking video, which comes from Jeff Goodman, who has been harassing Juwan for four-five years now. Has a history with him:

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1734741843009572931

Goodman's story is NOT that Jace got into it with Sanderson, but that he was lashing out in unhappiness at another employee, the trainer and that Sanderson, stumbling on the scene, made the provocative remark that, "This is why the culture is like it is around here."

Now, maybe Sanderson is right or maybe he's wrong, but a statement like that--going to the heart of the program--in front of players, is clearly a shot across Juwan's bow. Juwan heard it and confronted Sanderson. They shouted, they were both furious.

The culture may be bad. It may have deteriorated while Juwan was away (in which case others may also share blame). But clearly, saying that in front of the players is, to my mind, saying something that needs to be said behind closed doors. Or forcing an issue right in the direction it went: open confrontation. 

It may be that at this point it's too late. Often, nowadays, program problems become so public, contribute to the ugly, and salvaging situations becomes harder in part because the glare of scrutiny further poisons the well. Maybe this is a power play by Sanderson. But Juwan was away for months, and what transpired then remains to be told, too. Many of us saw Martelli jawboning at Saddi several times the other night. Making Martelli HC when there were three guys on the bench who had been there for years may or may not have been the right move, esp. when MSU fans and others--then people who might have known better here--were whispering that Martelli was the brains of the outfit.

It's even possible that what Sanderson said was meant less to be wildly negative and more to indicate that people needed to get their shit together.

Martelli, meanwhile, is a light middleweight coach. There's a reason why he was at a small college career-long. The idea that he is some kind of savior is a reach. The assistants will be moving on if Phil is made HC.

Also--to close--lots of Beilein's players chafed under his very authoritarian rules, which also shackled players and their roles. He was not a 'player's coach,' as was quickly proven at Cleveland. Stu Douglass was blunt about his coolness on Beilein. Look back on my posts going back 15 years, you'll see that I adored Beilein. But he got out because he was disgusted with the portal and the way the college game was being reshaped. Fantasies about a return of John Beilein are fantasies.  

There is ZERO in the podcast about Jace somehow coasting because he's Juwan's son. In fact, Goodman is sympathetic with him, because he was bitterly freaking at the fact that he wasn't getting better quickly enough.

Goodman is seen in many quarters as an enemy of the program. I'm much more interested in what Robbie has to say. And Robbie is right that Juwan should have asked Sanderson to step into the office to talk. But I think that Robbie's missing that what Sanderson said was out of bounds to start with.

I think that Phil needs to take a step way back, and leave at the end of the year. That Juwan needs--and will get--the chance to coach to the end of the year, health permitting. But this deal with Martelli should have been ended long ago.

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4th phase

December 13th, 2023 at 11:33 AM ^

I agree with a lot of what you said, especially regarding Martelli. I think he should have moved on a few years ago. It was good when he came in when Juwan had not been a head coach before. But, at the time everyone thought it was going to be a 1 year thing while he waited for another small school to open. Look at what the football team did, used the coaches absence to show case the young coaches who could be future head coaches somewhere else someday.  Martelli isn't that guy. Saddi and Eisley both had HC interest a few years ago. Should have made one of them the interim HC. 

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4th phase

December 13th, 2023 at 11:53 AM ^

And its clearly been a mess because Juwan still stands and yells at the refs as if he is HC. Which led to that technical. The current setup isn't working.

The message it says is that your two young assistants aren't anything more than career assistants. Which if that is the case, why are they still employed. I think Juwan needs to have the Harbaugh come to Jesus moment he had after 2020. Saddi, Eisley, and Martelli are starting to look like Drevno, Pep, and Brown. Go out and get a Yaklich type like Beilein did. 

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Hotel Putingrad

December 13th, 2023 at 9:37 AM ^

Goodman is a hack who has a peculiar fetish for ex-player coaches. He's beefed with both Hardaway and Stackhouse repeatedly. Now it's Howard's turn.

That being said, I think it's apparent that Howard having his sons on his roster is a recipe for disaster.

It might've worked here with Juwan if Jett and Jace had went to school elsewhere, but at this point it feels like we're just counting down the hours until he ultimately steps away.

Program needs a major reboot with an entirely new staff.

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Qmatic

December 13th, 2023 at 10:18 AM ^

You mean the fact that despite putting up good numbers, the offense flowed much better when he was not playing (Kobe especially excelled when not out there with Jett), and the fact that Jett showed about as much interest in defense as a blind man does when he's told to look at the rainbow, and yet still received 30+ minutes a game? 

This team unfortunately has been managed horribly since the start of the 21-22 season. Juwan's first two years he had program guys like Livers, Brooks, Simpson, Teske, and Davis help lead the way. Brooks saved the '22 season from being a disaster and turning into a pleasant surprise at the end based on the way the team played most of the year. 

I don't think Juwan is an all around bad coach, but he does not seem to be up to what the program needs at this moment. 

Joined: 01/09/2013

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maizedNblued

December 13th, 2023 at 10:30 AM ^

Been saying this for years....little things matter and the program has not done the little things offensively or defensively for quite some time. You are spot on that many of those savvy players carried the torch during the early years and it is quite obvious that since they left, the program has steadily declined. I tried to give JH the benefit of the doubt but sometimes good assistant coaches are not meant to be head coaches. 

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BoCanHam15

December 13th, 2023 at 10:48 AM ^

Did you watch the Iowa game?  Were they the same players?  Or did Juwan actually not look engaged like the other thread about Juwan stated?  I agree it's hard as hell to be a great coach and manager when having your children as players!  Been there done that!  I do believe that Jace shouldn't even probably be on a scholarship as a Michigan ball player and if and when he does move on and if Juwan is still there.  Things will get better!

GO BLUE

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