Per Tom VH, Only 12 "Protected Rivalries" on the 2024-28 B1G Schedule Model
As the new 18-team B1G era begins, Tom VH (Hold me, TomVH!) gives us the list of yearly rivalries. Iowa is still locked in with three (Minnesota, Nebraska, and Wisconsin) while nobody cares enough about Penn State to marry them.
October 5th, 2023 at 10:29 PM ^
I think we tend to see the insanity and rationalization on places like RCMB and extrapolate it to the whole university. Unfortunately, separate from the academic side in East Lansing, there is a bunch of toxicity in the athletic department.
I would have no problem treating them as another B1G school and not giving them the privilege of a rivalry they don't respect.
October 5th, 2023 at 2:31 PM ^
Yep, still the B1G Ten. We just have more teams demoted to the new Little 8 tier. Sorry Sparty.
October 5th, 2023 at 2:50 PM ^
Yep, I was just thinking about this as a relegation model.
B1G: USC, UCLA, UO, UW-west, UW-east, UM, OSU, PSU, ??,??
rb1g (relegated therefore lower case): Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, MSU, Nebraska, Minnesota, ??,??
??: Purdue, Iowa, Rutgers, Maryland
October 5th, 2023 at 3:17 PM ^
Amazingly, Rutgers has come to the promotion line.
October 5th, 2023 at 4:08 PM ^
LOL at B1G > b1g. Well done!
October 6th, 2023 at 11:30 AM ^
In the regulation mode, at least in the Premier League, only 3 get relegated out of 20, this from a quick google search, so I could be off on the actual numbers. Given that most teams don't get relegated, I would probably start with 4 initially - Rutgers, Illinois, Indiana, Nebraska, only because recency playing an effect. But you would have to consider one of NU or MSU to swap maybe with Rutgers as someone pointed out.
In the original list, I'd put Wisconsin in the top-8.
October 5th, 2023 at 2:33 PM ^
USC/UCLA vs. Oregon/Washington not being protected surprsied me.
I'm going to guess USC lobbied HARD to make sure Oregon wasn't an annual game. It may have even been a pre-requisite for Oregon joining the B1G.
All the USC alums I know out here hate Oregon w/ a passion. The hate is all rooted in "old money vs. new money." USC fans definitely want to restrict Oregon's access to SoCal as much as possible.
October 5th, 2023 at 2:36 PM ^
that sounds like a rivalry to me
October 5th, 2023 at 2:43 PM ^
Yep, USC vs Oregon definitely IS a rivalry. USC fans are just loathe to admit it.
I tell my USC fan friends that and they start getting fire in their eyes.
And I think some folk here aren't going to like me for this one, their arguments as regards Oregon aren't unlike what I hear some U-M fans say about MSU:
"We didn't like when that school up north (out west on I-96) started getting good and beating us. But, as we all know, that's mostly because of unfair NCAA probations and Clay Helton (us hiring RichRod and Brady), it's not anything Oregon (MSU) did. They're a dirty program, look at Phil Knight (Mark Dantonio)! They are still little brother! And they're going to sink back into irrelevance! They're not our rival, in fact we shouldn't even play them annually!"
----
On a side note, whoa boy --- U-M fans are going to quickly grow to hate USC and their fans (and vice versa). I don't mean this in a mean-spirited way: but it's going to be fun seeing a certain portion of each fanbase find out the same portion of the other fanbase is a mirror reflection. :-)
October 5th, 2023 at 2:53 PM ^
I don't think it's really comparable at all to Michigan/MSU. Honestly, West Coast rivalries in general aren't all that, but at least USC and UCLA is a real regional rivalry. Oregon is a *long* way from L.A. both in terms of distance and perception.
I'd say Stanford was more of a rival for USC than Oregon. I know that aside from the L.A. cross-town rivalry, the SoCal vs NorCal rivalry is probably most strongly felt.
If Oregon and USC had stayed another decade or two in the same conference where they both dominate recruiting etc. they would have been able to build a rivalry based solely on competing for league titles. But I don't think they were there, and in this schedule model they'll play each other far too rarely to develop it.
October 5th, 2023 at 3:02 PM ^
Fair enough. What I say is based on living in LA and interactions with USC fans - there's some incredible passion as regards Oregon. There are a lot of Oregon fans in SoCal. And Oregon fans give it back big-time to USC fans, which adds to it, and makes it much more unlike, say, USC/Washington.
They don't like Stanford either - that all started with Harbaugh in the late 2000s - but it's not nearly as intense. Stanford fans also don't care very much. I was at Stanford/USC a few weeks ago. I saw 10 Stanford fans, ALL wearing shorts and golf polos. Man, they fit the stereotype.
UCLA is a cross-town rivalry, but it seems USC fans mostly view them anymore as "irrelvant dispassionate wine-and-cheese fufus playing football up there in the SGV, a program who can't get their act together and be better than 7-5 anymore. Not a threat, have fun playing in the Sun Bowl every year fellas."
Overall, the USC fan mentality comes down to "who are these other damn conference schools who think they can be good at football??? What the heck! Conference titles are our birthright!"
October 5th, 2023 at 3:27 PM ^
I definitely think Michigan fans/blogs/radio personalities underrate MSU. The biggest difference tho between M-MSU and USC-Oregon is - Oregon got WAY better than MSU and in their down years remained relevant. MSU basically fell off a cliff in 2016 with 2 good seasons since. Oregon fell around the same time but was still a consistent Pac12 contender.
On the flip side, USC was way higher than anybody in the early '00s, but fell hard (maybe not AS hard as M) and then hasn't really gotten back up the same way we have. In their defense, they didn't have the cathartic demon defeating game that we did against OSU because they didn't have a rival who was one of the top 3 programs in the nation - but we really HAVE gotten over the MSU dominance era, and they really haven't passed Oregon as the premier west coast program. Both because Oregon is better than MSU, USC isn't as good as M, and USC's primary rival wasn't as good as OSU.
But yea, the parallels are there. And MSU unfortunately, will be back.
October 5th, 2023 at 3:37 PM ^
But Oregon being way better and remaining way better than MSU isn't the biggest difference, it's THE difference. Any comparison of Oregon and MSU is just that makes this an apples-to-oranges comparison.
October 5th, 2023 at 4:29 PM ^
That's fair. I'm not arguing that MSU is good as Oregon in 2023 - they aren't.
The USC fan attitude as regards their 2023 game in Eugene is funny to me. They --- they honestly think this --- view it as a "given" that they'll go up there and Caleb will throw for 500 yards and they'll score 50 and they'll win by a couple touchdowns.
Back in 2019: #5 Oregon visited the Coliseum. USC led 10-0 after a quarter! The whole stadium started chanting "overrated" at the Ducks. 3 quarters later, Oregon won 56-24.
USC has an "Oregon problem." Many of their fans still can't acknowledge that --- or have a proclivity to prematurely calling the problem "solved" --- even 15-20 years into the problem.
Anyway, enough about USC vs Oregon! Everyone else will see this dynamic more up close and personal soon enough.
October 5th, 2023 at 6:01 PM ^
On a separate note, I have some questions for you NittanyFan, if you don't mind.
1) You are a PSU fan (alum?) I presume. You live in LA or thereabouts. Why, exactly, are you here? Not that you're not welcome, but I don't get this huge interest in Michigan.
2) Do you also spend this much time on RCMB?
3) Who is PSU's rival anyway? Is it just Pitt? Do you even think Pitt is a rival?
October 5th, 2023 at 6:19 PM ^
Answers to your 5 questions, in order:
(1) God came to me in a dream and told me to spend 31 years posting here in order to attain eternal salvation. For better or for worse, I have 20 years and 2 months to go.
(2) No.
(3) PSU's rival is James Franklin's timeout management.
(4) No, see #3.
(5) I have no animosity toward Pitt, the days of the annual match-up/rivalry were before my time of PSU attendance & fandom. But, on multiple occasions, I have seen Pitt play live in the Motor City Bowl. in respect to those older PSU fan citizens who still DO harbor animosity toward Pitt, I will silently say "Eat shit Pitt" and "Puck Fitt" while rooting for their MAC foe to defeat them.
October 5th, 2023 at 7:16 PM ^
For the sake of your eternal soul, I hope Brian doesn't shut the blog down before 20 years and 2 months pass.
Thanks for playing.
October 6th, 2023 at 2:08 PM ^
"(3) PSU's rival is James Franklin's timeout management. " Lol! +1
October 5th, 2023 at 6:45 PM ^
One major difference is the level of animosity, and the on and off field altercations that have occurred that feed the hate bw msu and um.
Gholston twisting helmets, tunnel fights, sparty pregame marches, etc. I have not heard any incidents like that bw usc and Oregon.
and I don’t think the coaches or players have fed the rivalry the way they have for um msu with dantonio picking fights w um coaches and players more than a dozen times. Very different.
October 5th, 2023 at 2:35 PM ^
They're calling this scheduling model the "Flex Protect XVII" model.
I'd be willing to bet they'll be adding another 'I" or more to that Roman numeral within a few years, maybe sooner.
October 5th, 2023 at 2:43 PM ^
I'm really curious how they came up with Maryland-Rutgers. Maryland-PSU is more of a historic rivalry than Maryland-Rutgers.
PSU-OSU I also thought had a little thing going, but I guess OSU probably didn't want to be the only school with two big time teams every year.
October 5th, 2023 at 3:27 PM ^
If you schedule MD-PSU (or Rutg-PSU) annually, then the other one probably wonders "why them and not us, we want that."
And having both as annual games arguably doesn't help with overall schedule balance.
October 5th, 2023 at 5:00 PM ^
That isn't stopping them with Iowa playing Minnesota, Nebraska, and Wisconsin every year.
October 5th, 2023 at 5:14 PM ^
The quadrilateral of hate makes sense from the perspective that all 4 teams are old blue blood programs that demographic change has made non-competitive. This gives them 3 games every year they should have a chance in and if their team is in an up year they could compete for a spot in the title game.
You gotta throw the try hards a bone here and there or they'll turn into Indiana.
October 5th, 2023 at 7:55 PM ^
Wisconsin and Iowa were never blueblood programs. They've had their moments but were never national powers. In fact, both programs have been at their best over the last 40 years.
Minnesota (a long time ago) and Nebraska, yes.
October 5th, 2023 at 5:08 PM ^
There was no reason to actually make Rutgers and Maryland protected though. That's not a rivalry. They just happen to be close to each other and have no other friends.
October 5th, 2023 at 2:49 PM ^
Haha PSU. Even Rutgers and Maryland get a protected rivalry
October 5th, 2023 at 3:29 PM ^
From a PSU POV, it's fine. There are reasons PSU doesn't get any of MD, Rutgers or OSU annually (the 3 most obvious targets).
The real "haha" is going to be when this 18-team monstrosity inevitably produces 3 or more undefeated teams at some point.
Someone on reddit already did the work: there are a few possibilities that produce FIVE undefeated teams in 2024. That's the result of conferences with so many teams and no divisions
October 5th, 2023 at 3:35 PM ^
I'm not sure what the tiebreaking rules / guidelines are. Maybe - we get the head coaches together and see you can finish a quart of chocolate milk in a chugging contest.
I mentioned this the other day - it will be the AD's from the teams in the conference - probably a stack ranking of the teams that are tied - or being considered. A bad taste from a Michigan - OSU game about 40 years ago.
October 5th, 2023 at 3:41 PM ^
If one of the tie breakers is any sort of scoring differential you might see some real ugly games against the lesser teams. No pulling the starters in the third quarter
October 5th, 2023 at 6:19 PM ^
just a little humor
October 5th, 2023 at 8:37 PM ^
If I was the big ten I would match PSU with USC and make it a thing.
October 5th, 2023 at 2:51 PM ^
It kind of feels like Iowa knows they had a good thing in the B1G West and is basically trying to stay there through rivalry games.
October 5th, 2023 at 7:25 PM ^
That and the fact they know that those are all teams that can’t score so at least Iowa can keep up. Misery loves company.
October 5th, 2023 at 2:52 PM ^
I love that no one cares about PSU.
October 5th, 2023 at 9:02 PM ^
I'm surprised that Maryland did not lobby for a protected rivalry with PSU. That is who they pay attention to the most.
My 2 brothers went to Penn State and they can't really answer the question of who their biggest rival is since they lost Pitt. They would say "probably kinda sorta Ohio State", but they know that OSU does not view them that way. They clearly don't want to acknowledge Maryland as a rival even though Maryland does.
October 5th, 2023 at 2:54 PM ^
Of course OSU comes out ahead in these schedules. We get 3 of the new teams in year 1 and they get 1???
October 5th, 2023 at 3:01 PM ^
I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if Washington in year 1 is to make up for that home game we owe them?
October 5th, 2023 at 9:04 PM ^
I was concerned about this to, but at least Williams, Nix, and Penix will all be gone.
October 5th, 2023 at 2:55 PM ^
It's the previously announced 11 protected rivalries plus Washington-Oregon.
October 5th, 2023 at 2:55 PM ^
Will be nice for Michigan to have one annual end-of-season classic rivalry game and one annual curb-stomping of the creeps up the road.
October 5th, 2023 at 2:57 PM ^
What are we going to do now that MSU-PSU don't play annually for the Land Grant trophy anymore? Damn conference expansion.
October 5th, 2023 at 3:00 PM ^
From The Athletic:
In order to provide balanced scheduling, a scheduling matrix was developed. It first included two tiers of nine teams, then three tiers of six teams and finally six tiers of three teams.
Ooh fun guessing!
1: M, OSU, USC
2: PSU, Oregon...Wisconsin? Washington?
3: The other UW, MSU, Iowa
4: UCLA, NW, Nebraska?
5: Minnesota, Purdue, Illinois
6: Rutgers, Indiana, Maryland
October 5th, 2023 at 3:05 PM ^
This looks right except I'd swap UCLA and MSU at this point, and I'd move Maryland up a couple of tiers
October 5th, 2023 at 3:20 PM ^
who would you move down for Maryland?
October 5th, 2023 at 3:33 PM ^
The green and white of East Lansing...
October 5th, 2023 at 3:42 PM ^
I'd have them over all 3 schools you have in the tier above them as well as Northwestern.
October 5th, 2023 at 5:30 PM ^
I can get behind that. My initial thought was "NW went to Indy a few times, Illinois once went to a Rose Bowl with Juice Williams, Purdue was in Indy last year." But one of those things is getting to be a very long time ago, and the other two are Big Ten West inflation.
October 5th, 2023 at 5:45 PM ^
PSU being #UNRIVALED means their 5-year, 45-game schedule includes 11 schools they play 3 times, and 6 schools they play 2 times.
One could assume that those 6 schools, in an attempt to balance the schedule, should be evenly distributed among the 6 tiers.
Those 6 schools are, in alphabetical order: Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern.
I suppose those could be useful data points in guessing the tiers.
October 5th, 2023 at 3:04 PM ^
I'm biased because I'm from the east coast and can more easily travel for this game and know more people who went there, but I'd rather protect Michigan-Penn State than Michigan-MSU. Penn State is a better program and will likely continue to be a better program given the resources and access to top recruits.