Mel Tucker target of sexual harassment case.
September 10th, 2023 at 1:21 AM ^
Amazing how this is for sure the immediate reaction of everyone (including me) who follows college football closely. Goes to show how absurd the contract is.
I think I hear a giant collective sigh of relief coming from East Lansing.
September 10th, 2023 at 1:36 PM ^
How very on brand for MSU--the only way out of a disastrous contract is via another utterly humiliating weird sex scandal.
September 10th, 2023 at 3:56 AM ^
“In statements to the investigator, Tucker acknowledged masturbating on the call … ‘I am not proud of my judgment and I am having difficulty forgiving myself for getting into this situation, but I did not engage in misconduct by any definition.’"
Wait, so masturbating in the phone with a woman who is not your wife is not “misconduct by any definition”? Hmm…
September 10th, 2023 at 5:28 AM ^
so masturbating in the phone with a woman who is not your wife is not “misconduct by any definition”?
As long as you pay her the $4.95 a minute, no.
September 10th, 2023 at 8:38 AM ^
Or 2 cheeseburgers.....no, wait....that would be very wrong!
September 10th, 2023 at 1:45 PM ^
How is cheating on your spouse misconduct to your employer unless your spouse is your boss? Might be unethical or abhorrent, but unless it's spelled out in a contract somewhere, cheat away. That said, cheating with an employee/vendor of your employer is very likely misconduct.
September 10th, 2023 at 10:42 PM ^
Who said it was “misconduct to your employer”? Not my words. Not MeLLLLLLL’s either.
MeLLLLLLL said it wasn’t “misconduct by ANY definition.”
And, yes, it’s misconduct to your spouse as you admit. That’s a definition of misconduct, isn’t it? Thanks for admitting I was right.
It’s clear misconduct by MANY definitions, even if YOU don’t think him masturbating on a phone call with a woman that is not his wife whom his team regularly engages in sexual harassment/assault training for his players is not misconduct to his employer. But you do you.
September 11th, 2023 at 7:02 AM ^
This lady is presumably being paid a fair mount of money by Tucker's employer to fly in and talk to Tucker's team. I can see where she'd view that rejecting his advances would cut off the money that she's getting paid by MSU.
And I'm not even going to bother getting into the aspects of misconduct toward his spouse because, to a limited extent, that's not the university's business. Except of course when it goes public and it's egregious.
September 10th, 2023 at 9:18 AM ^
Bye pure nature of Brenda Tracy's experience as a sexual assault survivor, her organization's mission and contractual relationship with Melvin's employer, and the fact that he's married - should have been ringing in Mel's ears that she's 100% unambiguously off limits in every single manner except purely professional/work communications.
If I had a publicly high-profile job as a man, I would actively avoid 1-on-1 situations with the opposite sex as a rule, let alone what this clown allegedly did.
How MeLLLLLLLL couldn't think past his own dick in this situation boggles me. How he didn't absorb a single learning from the work Set The Expectation is doing... I just... ahhhh.
MSU needs to clean house - and I mean more people than just Mel need to be fired into the sun.
September 10th, 2023 at 9:54 AM ^
If I had a publicly high-profile job as a man, I would actively avoid 1-on-1 situations with the opposite sex as a rule, let alone what this clown allegedly did.
I do not have a high-profile job, but I do this as a rule anyway. I do not meet students (of any sex) in my office. If they come for my office hours, I go to a conference room where people are always walking by and make sure the door stays open.
The fact that he did this, to a rape survivor nonetheless, shows that he is a horrible human being.
But then thinking he could get away with it is pure arrogance of power.
September 10th, 2023 at 10:20 AM ^
Yeah, when I meet with students in my office I leave the door open. Also, I'm not a rapist or sexual harasser. I also avoid dating or trying to date women I work with. Clear demarcations...
September 10th, 2023 at 10:57 AM ^
Yep. Taking (probably unnecessary) precautions is one thing. Being a complete pice of shit human is another altogether.
September 10th, 2023 at 10:03 AM ^
If I had a publicly high-profile job as a man, I would actively avoid 1-on-1 situations with the opposite sex as a rule, let alone what this clown allegedly did.
Stop it with this bullshit. You're advocating for explicitly discriminating against women because you can't control yourself. How about treating women like human beings and not objects that only serve one purpose instead?
September 10th, 2023 at 10:27 AM ^
I didn’t read it this way at all. This is more about the optics and protecting oneself from false allegations.
September 10th, 2023 at 10:35 AM ^
He said he avoids 1-on-1 situations with members of the opposite sex, but nothing about 1-on-1 meetings with members of the same sex. This means it it is more difficult for women to actually meet with him, since he'll avoid them if there are no other people present. His effort to protect himself is making life more difficult for women than their male colleagues. How is that not discriminating against women?
September 10th, 2023 at 10:47 AM ^
“because you can't control yourself.”
My guess is this is the only part Delhi was questioning.
September 10th, 2023 at 10:55 AM ^
He's not going to have to worry about false accusations if he can control himself. Instead, he's explicitly discriminating against women because he views false accusations as a bigger problem than explicitly discriminating against women. And advising other people to explicitly discriminate against women as well. Probably because explicitly discriminating against women won't affect him personally, so it's not a real problem.
September 10th, 2023 at 11:25 AM ^
A quick review.
Dennis: I avoid 1-on-1s with women.
Wile_e8: You're discriminating against women because you can't control yourself.
Delhi (my interpretation): I don't think Dennis is saying he can't control himself but is afraid of false accusations. [My comment again, Delhi did not remark on whether or not this is discrimination.]
Wile_e8: He is too discriminating.
Me: I think Delhi was just objecting to the part about not being able to control himself.
Wile_e8: He is too discriminating.
-----------
I don't think anyone has disagreed with your point about discrimination. Certainly I haven't. I agree with you.
September 10th, 2023 at 12:16 PM ^
Fine, I phrased in poorly. I shouldn't have said anything about the OP having issues controlling himself, I admit it, whatever. But this stupid semantic argument about the way I phrased my criticism is missing the forest through the trees.
I'm thinking of a story a woman I know told me once. She would regularly attend meetings with a bunch of men, and then after the meetings, all of them would naturally head to the restrooms. And then the men would continue the conversation from the meeting in the men's restroom, while she would get left out of all the input and decision making while she was alone in the women's restroom. So she started just using the men's restroom with all the men to make sure she didn't get left out!
Do I think the men hated women? No. Do I think the men were intentionally discriminating against the woman on the team? No. Do I think they had issues controlling themselves? Absolutely not. Do I think they were even aware that their behavior was discriminating against women? No.
Was their behavior making life more difficult for the women in the workplace? Absolutely.
So here, we have a thread already about one of the ways men in power regularly make the workplace more difficult for women, by treating them like objects of sexual desire rather than colleagues. And in this thread, we have a poster so clueless on the workplace environment that he casually tosses out explicitly discriminating against women as useful workplace advice. And it receives a lot of upvotes! And no pushback outside of my comments. That's bad!
But yes, let's focus on whether "controlling himself" was the right phrase to use here, because that's the real problem. Boy, do we have a bunch of posters who are really concerned about that problem.
September 10th, 2023 at 1:27 PM ^
Things that didn’t happen for $1000, Alex.
I was with you until this comment. Since when do men stay in the restroom more than what’s needed?! Even when I’m with my friends, I do my business and get the F out. It’s hard enough to look at people in the face in the restroom.
September 10th, 2023 at 1:58 PM ^
Hey, speaking of "missing the forest through the trees" and "things men do in the workplace that unintentionally make life more difficult for women", here you are! You are entirely dismissing the point of my post because a woman's story of a thing that happened to her doesn't match up with your experience as a man. Nothing problematic there!
September 10th, 2023 at 2:32 PM ^
Well. Like I said, I was with you (meaning, I was agreeing with all your previous posts for the most part) until you brought up a totally unbelievable story of a bunch of men who hang out in a bathroom to make decisions about stuff. So I did in fact see “the forest through the trees”, but trying to convince others with a story like that is not helping.
So OK. I started my own company several years ago, and I’m versed in all of the employment rules/regulations (particularly in Illinois), so I’m no amateur here. In short, the laws favor the accuser more than anything, which has forced me to make some hard fast rules. For instance, while my company is still small, I don’t allow ANYONE from my company to date, hook-up or engage in any non-professional relationships (that includes friendships). We can meet outside work as professionals, but not as friends. If so, it’s grounds for termination. Believe it or not, this is becoming more common with smaller companies, whereby the risk associated with any HR issue (whether real or perceived) is too much for a small company to conceivably address with the resources they have. Therefore I focus on hiring people who are already married (preferably with kids). I also focus on hiring people who work remotely so we don’t meet very often in person (and thankfully, this is well received these days).
September 10th, 2023 at 2:39 PM ^
you brought up a totally unbelievable story of a bunch of men who hang out in a bathroom to make decisions about stuff.
I never said that people just hang out in the bathroom making decisions. I don't know the details because I wasn't there, but "continuing the discussions from the meeting in the restroom immediately after the meeting" isn't particularly hard to believe. And if you aren't supposed to be in that restroom, you're going to miss out on whatever was said in there, which is going to make life more difficult for you.
September 10th, 2023 at 2:40 PM ^
I'm not reading past this part:
"Fine, I phrased in poorly. I shouldn't have said anything about the OP having issues controlling himself, I admit it, whatever."
Seriously, I am glad you are able to acknowledge that. Thank you.
If you want to educate Dennis and others on a better course of action in how he conduct himself (i.e., hold a gender neutral policy on meetings), I think it's easier to get that point across when avoiding an accusatory tone or misrepresenting his own perspective. So I do think it's important.
September 10th, 2023 at 2:58 PM ^
I would like to thank the civility police for educating me that ACKSHUALLY the problem here was me not being civil enough in my criticism of explicit calls for discrimination. Great job, guy.
September 11th, 2023 at 9:35 AM ^
It's a fair point that workplace "rules" should apply equally, regardless of gender. I submit that it's also important to avoid even the appearance of an unprofessional relationship with one's colleagues for any number of reasons, especially if it's a boss/direct report type of relationship. You don't want to give the impression that a certain person gets favorable treatment because they are a friend or romantic interest because of the damage that would cause on morale and workplace environment. And even if they aren't getting special treatment, the impression that they are is just as damaging. Windy City goes into that on this thread and I agree.
When it comes to all relationships with the opposite sex, as a married man I am careful about the impression that I give others as well. Spending a significant amount of time with a woman I'm not married to, especially alone or one-on-one time, can send the wrong message about my intentions to everyone. It doesn't mean that I would never allow myself to be in that sort of situation, but because perception often equals reality, I'd be a fool not to consider how my behavior looks.
September 11th, 2023 at 9:22 AM ^
Bingo. You understood me correctly, Henson.
September 10th, 2023 at 11:39 AM ^
He's not going to have to worry about false accusations if he can control himself.
Actually, that’s the only time he would have to worry about false accusations, right? Otherwise they wouldn’t be false.
But I’m not sure why we are even talking about false allegations or protecting yourself from them. Tuck has admitted to masturbating on the phone. And, imo, we would have to suspend disbelief to think that a rape survivor, whose goal in life is to raise awareness of these situations, would consensually participate in this.
September 10th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
Do you not understand what is meant by "false allegations"? I would love to see your explanation as to how self control is related to false allegations in any way whatsoever.
September 10th, 2023 at 12:04 PM ^
Unfortunately, in today’s litigious environment that is simply not true. False accusations are made. That’s not a statement to downgrade true accusations or say it’s predominant. But it happens.
September 11th, 2023 at 7:20 AM ^
As a retired male HS teacher, I was told, from the get-go, that it was extremely dumb for me to be alone with any female students in a private setting. Never close the door and be alone with a girl or small group of girls in a classroom, especially after school. If a girl needed to talk briefly, we'd step to the door where security cameras could pick it up. If a girl needed more time, we'd go to the school library or the conference room in the office. To the extent possible, have multiple people around at all times and/or be somewhere where the security cameras will see you.
False accusations happened rarely but they did sometimes get made, nevertheless the consequences can be devastating; most of the time, there are things that you can do to avoid them.
September 11th, 2023 at 10:14 AM ^
I had the same lessons drummed into me when I was studying to be a teacher: Classroom door always open, have a third person there if possible, sit at your desk so there is always something between you, never initiate physical contact, even if it's a friendly pat on the back. I remember my prof saying, if you get accused of inappropriate sexual behavior, you're guilty, even if you aren't. You always have to have your guard up.
September 10th, 2023 at 1:47 PM ^
Wnat?! Take a nap.
September 10th, 2023 at 11:17 AM ^
Exactly. You couldn't imagine anyone who would be more off-limits than a woman whose career it is to go around to sports teams and instruct them about avoiding sexual harassment/misconduct.
September 10th, 2023 at 9:41 AM ^
He's done.
And sadly, it will be because of football, not because of the woman and any pain he may have caused. She'll be used again, this time as a vehicle to terminate a contract.
I *HATE* that we are left to wonder, "what if they were 11-2 and in the CFP or NY6? Has MSU (and/or plenty of others, but we're talking about MSU) shown it is capable of making an objective decision on this type of matter, with these stakes?
September 10th, 2023 at 10:26 AM ^
Mel’s cooked. I’m sure he has hired good counsel but Mel has never had a very good defense.
September 10th, 2023 at 10:38 AM ^
“Here’s how this is Jim Harbaugh’s fault.”- 97.1 at 2:00 on Monday
September 10th, 2023 at 10:53 AM ^
You're also a horseshit human being. A life of horseshit.
September 10th, 2023 at 4:41 PM ^
Obviously bigger issues here but or course MSU gets out of the worst contact decision in college football that would have saddles them with a mediocre coach for a couple more years. Also if he would have, say made the playoff last year, they would find a way to not fire him.
September 10th, 2023 at 12:22 AM ^
Yeah, and ESPN's report, too.
I wonder if MSU is starting to think about ways to extricate itself from that contract.
September 10th, 2023 at 12:47 AM ^
What are you insinuating?
Because I was thinking the same thing...
September 10th, 2023 at 3:07 AM ^
Pinky, are you insinuating what I’m insinuating?
September 10th, 2023 at 3:16 AM ^
Um, I think so, Brain. But how are we going to get the blinders on the rest of the sheep?
Poit!
September 10th, 2023 at 8:27 AM ^
The stupidity alone should demonstrate a for cause inability to perform the job. You aggressively pursued and beat off over the phone with a woman whose cause is to prevent this exact behavior? WTF?
September 10th, 2023 at 9:51 AM ^
There is something deeply, deeply disturbing about going after a woman whose entire public persona is based on her lifelong trauma from being drugged and gang raped in college by football players. Like, this is sociopathic serial killer shit. If these allegations are true he's either such a hopeless sex addict that he needs in-patient treatment or he specifically pursues traumatized individuals. Either way it can't be overstated how messed up these allegations are- and again, if true.
September 10th, 2023 at 12:22 AM ^
Interesting way to get out from under that terrible contract.
September 10th, 2023 at 8:34 AM ^
Yeah, I agree, the "Tuck Coming/phone sex" embarrassment is probably not the best way to try and get your money back from a terrible contract.
Basically the lifetime of ridicule route isnt worth the squeeze.
September 10th, 2023 at 9:20 AM ^
RCMB is claiming there is an anti-MSU conspiracy afoot
September 10th, 2023 at 10:17 AM ^
Yeah right. We want him there for eternity. Who is going to create a conspiracy to get rid of a horseshit coach.
September 10th, 2023 at 10:18 AM ^
Did you expect anything less?