OT: Field surface and condition in Glendale
Michigan played at State Farm Stadium against TCU on New Year's Eve. And, the same stadium hosted the Super Bowl yesterday evening.
In both cases, it seemed like there were issues with the surface, which is natural grass. I believe that Michigan and the Super Bowl may have actually been "different" fields - since the Super Bowl turf may have been "first use", and only cost the NFL about $ 800K.
My understanding is - the turf is "grown" outside the stadium and rolled in for games. And, this time of year would seem to be "pretty good" for growing grass in Phoenix.
It does seem that those associated with the stadium could get this correct - and, perhaps they do during the regular season for the Cardinals. Super Bowl commenters were talking about the paint and logos. And, I can't recall if that was an issue for the Fiesta Bowl.
So - do you have any perspectives - or thoughts - about this?
February 13th, 2023 at 11:34 AM ^
Somebody - "I got it! Instead of field turf we should grow natural grass, then cut it out, and roll it into this indoor stadium!"
Everybody else - "Why?"
February 13th, 2023 at 12:05 PM ^
Here it is in action….and it’s just as ridiculous as it seems
February 13th, 2023 at 12:50 PM ^
Watching that, the phrase "you played yourself" comes to mind.
February 13th, 2023 at 3:21 PM ^
Pretty amazing that the one guy in the middle behind the end zone can push the entire field by himself. /s
I get this sense his 5 year old son is watching and he told him, "Look how strong your dad is!" haha.
February 13th, 2023 at 3:24 PM ^
What I don't understand is why you need to do this when you have a retractable roof. Just keep the roof open and close it at game time.
February 13th, 2023 at 11:35 AM ^
The type of grass and the excessive paint both lead to slipping. They showed a pile of Philly cleats after some on the team changed from 1/2” to a 3/4” cleats. Both teams suffered equally, but it looked bad for the NFL.
February 13th, 2023 at 11:38 AM ^
"Excessive."
That is the Super Bowl in a nutshell. Every year it is more. MORE. MOARRRR. It is just too much.
It was a good game but for the love of God. You have all day to do anything you want and the kickoff is still 20 minutes later than advertised. Had an 8 year old super pumped for the game who did not care at all by the time it started.
February 13th, 2023 at 11:41 AM ^
330 - I agree completely.
One thought I had was... Go to a racetrack - like Bristol. Set up a football field in the middle of the infield.
THEN - have a NASCAR race early. Set up a bunch of musical stages all around - in the corners on the sides - have at least eight stages. Then, hold a concert - going from stage to stage - different types of music at each stage.
Oh - as they switch from one stage and "kind of act" - country, rap, rock n roll, etc.. Play one quarter of football. SO, this could turn out to be not only a 12 hour day of entertainment - but, maybe even turn in into a multi-day festival for the senses - like Woodstock.
February 13th, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^
And in the football game, have there be "surprise" events that completely alter the dynamic of the sport. Have a trip wire that can be activated remotely. Allow an announcer to yell "dead" right before a player catches a Touchdown pass so that the play actually gives the other team 6 points instead of giving them 6 points.
Let's go all the way with this.
February 13th, 2023 at 11:50 AM ^
How can we involve the "MTV Rock N' Jock" 10 point circle into all of this?
February 13th, 2023 at 11:51 AM ^
Has to be a way.
February 13th, 2023 at 12:10 PM ^
and float a mystery balloon over the whole affair....
February 13th, 2023 at 12:19 PM ^
1822 - and, with a retractable roof - you can start out with the balloon overhead - and, then, lower it in - close the roof - the fans will be closer to the action.
I think Goodyear has a balloon - which many refer to as a blimp. And, it appears certain governments around the world have something similar - though, they aren't referred to as balloons - just "unidentified flying objects." And, if you look deeper in the archives - there's also a rumor that Area 51 has a few hidden UFO's too.
With Goodell - this could turn into an even greater spectacular. Vega$ is the perfect location - I can only imagine what next year's concert and game will look like. Who knows - maybe the tigers that Siegfried and Roy used can just roam around the stands for some impromptu activities - or - even better yet - have the mascots on the field during one of the breaks - bring out the tigers - and, see who survives a "cage match" between the tigers and mascots. I'm sure the oddsmakers will have a bunch of bets available for that matchup.
February 13th, 2023 at 2:57 PM ^
An earlier, sleeker version of the same "mystery balloon" (this one w/o lipstick)
February 13th, 2023 at 1:11 PM ^
Can we blow up a bunch of disco records in the middle of the field too???
February 13th, 2023 at 1:36 PM ^
Only in Chicago
February 13th, 2023 at 3:11 PM ^
Hahaha and have random people in the dugout having sex, people sliding down the foul poles, and random fires set on the field.
February 13th, 2023 at 11:42 AM ^
Next year, there will be 4 (as opposed to two) Super Bowl LVIII logos, and they will be 25 (as opposed to twenty) yards wide each, and the NFL shield will be DOUBLE the size it was yesterday.
Fully agree on the more, more, more. It's obnoxious.
February 13th, 2023 at 1:12 PM ^
For what it's worth, Penn State's grass field stands out to me as possibly the best grass playing surface in all of football, college or pro. I was fortunate to be one the field twice, and it's near perfection. The NFL should hire Penn State's groundskeepers for all future Super Bowls, imo.
February 13th, 2023 at 1:34 PM ^
Billy Ray, Lambeau in Green Bay is natural turf. The Packers take great pride in their field - and, it's playable whenever necessary. If I recall correctly - Lambeau has the stuff "under the turf" - like Augusta - to keep it warm enough when the cold weather hits, so its playable and in very good condition.
February 13th, 2023 at 1:41 PM ^
Ironic the turf is better in Green Bay than Arizona
February 13th, 2023 at 2:32 PM ^
one has lots of fresh water nearby, one does not. pretty simple.
February 13th, 2023 at 1:34 PM ^
Biggest issue with the SB is the timing.
Either toe meets leather at 4pm Sunday or push the game back to 8pm Saturday night
February 13th, 2023 at 2:56 PM ^
Count me in for moving it to Saturday night. Having everyone hung over on Monday for no good reason is just dumb.
February 13th, 2023 at 7:32 PM ^
I went from my 1/2" earplugs to my 3/4" as the game went on. Greg Olsen please STFU.
February 13th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
Embarrassing and no excuse for it, especially for the biggest single game of the year and all the resources available.
February 13th, 2023 at 5:07 PM ^
I agree. This is so stupid and it obviously impacts the game significantly, so this is the only thing I can come up with to explain how people can deliberately make such terrible decisions.
Glendale is relatively close to Vegas. Significantly close for large cities in the West. That being said I am proposing a theory that Vegas insiders have figured out that slippery fields lead to surprisingly high scoring games or some other data point that specifically gives Vegas an edge, and in the case of this stadium they have figured out the tricks to make it happen by way of the stadium workers.
They close the roof or they paint the entire field. Players slip everywhere and you really can't say a proper game was even played. Absolutely pathetic. The NFL, like NCAA, can do much better and create specific protocols that pre-determine the quality of the surface. Or simply don't play important games in stadiums that don't meet the standard.
February 13th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
It's sheer idiocy, carried out to make themselves feel special about their warm climate, while satisfying purists obsessed with "real grass". Turf is superior in almost every way. If it causes more injuries it's because having actual traction instead of slipping all over the place can sometimes lead to lower leg injuries. You need to be able to plant your foot to tear your ACL.
February 13th, 2023 at 12:17 PM ^
You are way overstating this. It's not for the purists. Players favor grass by a significant margin. "Actual traction" is not an accurate picture of the kind of issues that can be caused by lack of give in certain artificial fields.
By your logic, the old astroturf fields should be brought back. That's not sensisble.
February 13th, 2023 at 12:33 PM ^
Players who prefer grass do so because most players are purists and have wholly unrealistic expectations about how well real grass can be maintained. And no of course I'm not advocating AstroTurf, which is akin to playing on a tennis court. But artificial turf technology has come a long way since the 1970s. 90% of stadiums today should be using artificial turf. If fields in warm, dry climates like Glendale insist on using real grass, fine, but don't play this bullshit bait and switch where you lay down new sod a week before the game and call it real grass.
February 13th, 2023 at 12:46 PM ^
Stadiums lay down new sod all the time. The Rose Bowl does it literally every year, for example. The players do not prefer it because they are purists; they prefer it because they literally make their livings playing on it. Your posts read like you are just making stuff up and trolling.
February 13th, 2023 at 1:17 PM ^
Your posts read like you're like a pedant trying to make excuses for dumb corporate policies. "Real grass" constantly goes to shit. The only schools in the Big Ten that use real grass are the agricultural geniuses at MSU and PSU, and whenever Michigan plays on those fields, the turf quality is awful. That's why it annoys me. I can't speak for the Rose Bowl since I haven't watched it since 2006. Maybe they have enough money to do the kind of prep/work necessary to make a sturdy field.
As for the players--the players either don't know or don't care about the process of preparing and maintaining real vs. artificial turf. Frank Clark was quoted about yesterday's field saying "A lot of these stadiums try to do new tactics with the grass, they try to do new things. I've been playing football since I was 7. The best grass is grass that is naturally there." That doesn't sounds to me like he's advocating what you're advocating. It sounds like 100% purist talk and the kind of thing that field maintenance experts would say is unrealistic. Real grass is going to get ripped up over the course of a season, particularly if it's played on in bad weather.
February 13th, 2023 at 1:52 PM ^
Do you work for FieldTurf? You seem weirdly invested in this argument.
February 13th, 2023 at 5:07 PM ^
this man sells fieldturf and fieldturf accessories at strickland fieldturf.
February 14th, 2023 at 1:33 AM ^
Hilarious. No, I just get annoyed when Michigan plays on “real grass” and it’s clearly shit. Then when I ask, “why can’t they just use artificial turf?” purists like stephenrjpedanticprick come out of the woodwork and explain that ackshully grass that was trucked in 2 weeks ago is better, because the Rose Bowl and Super Bowl do it and never have problems. Except, ya know, this time. And maybe those other times.
February 14th, 2023 at 5:22 AM ^
bo - the asshole part of him, at least - DOES live.
February 14th, 2023 at 12:54 PM ^
Wonderful addition to the conversation from another one of the MgoBoard’s usual suspects.
February 13th, 2023 at 1:56 PM ^
I agree with you. Grass is just asking for trouble.
Modern field turf has specifications. If people want to use grass, then there needs to be specifications, which include how much paint to use, and measuring how slippery it is on sections with paint.
There is too much at stake to continue this in such an ad hoc way.
February 13th, 2023 at 2:10 PM ^
Responding to your point "(Artificial) Turf is superior in almost every way. If it causes more injuries it's because having actual traction instead of slipping all over the place can sometimes lead to lower leg injuries."
There was an article posted in the Athletic about this recently. The data from a few prominent recent studies shows that lower extremity injuries are more common on synthetic turf and it's due to the "synthetic turf’s lack of ability to release an athlete’s shoe". When it comes to player safety, I don't think it can simply be boiled down to "traction = good". Rather a certain level of traction is good, but too much traction can actually be quite bad. The surface needs to release players' cleats at high forces to protect their joints.
I don't it's a fair characterization to just say that artificial turf is superior in every way and everyone who says otherwise is just holding onto some vague "purist" ideals. I think that pro athletes generally have incredible body awareness and can feel the effects that different surfaces have on their ability to plant, cut, and move dynamically. I personally don't think you're giving the players enough credit.
Also, it's possible to have "hybrid" surfaces like those used by many Premier League teams (source) that are like 95% real grass and 5% artificial fibers. It seems that these provide increased safety, but are also more resilient to the weekly wear and tear that you mention.
February 14th, 2023 at 1:52 AM ^
The trade off is resiliency of the turf vs. resiliency of the athletes’ lower leg soft tissue. “Real grass” releases a player’s cleat by becoming damaged.
99% of the player rhetoric surrounding this is purist talk, as I demonstrated with the Frank Clark quote. Most of these players have only played on a field like the Super Bowl or Rose Bowl for a handful of games in their entire career. Their experience with “real grass” is the type of thing you see at MSU and PSU. Those fields are indeed softer, but they also get shredded to pieces especially if played on during heavy rain. Which is why Michigan and OSU stopped bothering. MSU and PSU have stuck with it to exhibit an aesthetic of agricultural expertise.
Hybrid fields might be a good middle ground, but they don’t seem to have caught on in the U.S.
February 13th, 2023 at 2:34 PM ^
I can't speak for the Rose Bowl since I haven't watched it since 2006. Maybe they have enough money to do the kind of prep/work necessary to make a sturdy field.
yes, it's just too bad the nfl doesn't have the resources of the rose bowl.
February 14th, 2023 at 1:36 AM ^
Evidently they don’t, since they failed miserably this year.
February 13th, 2023 at 2:54 PM ^
Real grass, open air stadiums, bad weather games, minimal paint, and non corporate named stadiums are superior.
February 13th, 2023 at 2:18 PM ^
Right ---- the Rose Bowl has a near-perfect playing surface every single year. And they completely re-sod the field after the UCLA season ends. The Rose Bowl grass is grown out in the Coachella Valley.
Also: Glendale (Arizona) has just about the damn same winter climate as both Pasadena and the Coachella Valley!
There's really no excuse for last night. Other people have figured out how to have a suitable playing surface for their big games --- the NFL totally failed here. And it really isn't that difficult.
February 13th, 2023 at 3:31 PM ^
that's because the field hardly gets used all year long..... i mean, ucla plays there.
February 14th, 2023 at 11:49 PM ^
The NFL failed, but this has been a problem in Glendale for a long time, and not just with the NFL. The Auburn-Oregon BCS title game back in 2011 was the same deal.
February 13th, 2023 at 12:34 PM ^
And in Arizona, if you keep the roof open, FieldTurf will be brutally hot to play on. Grass is a lot cooler.
February 13th, 2023 at 12:45 PM ^
I may be in the minority, but I see no reason to need the roof open. You're in the desert, where it's brutally hot much of the year (and the way things are going, it's just going to get hotter). Just keep it closed...
February 13th, 2023 at 12:52 PM ^
Because during much of the football it is not brutally hot. Today the forecast high is 55.