MSU HC Tucker calls himself a 'horsesh*t coach'
Here's a link to the quotation, via Twitter.
Obviously, I enjoy this because it's MSU, &c. His self-critique seems accurate, too, because he personally helped to coach the DBs.
One sub-topic I'm interested in hearing about from the board, putting aside the football aspect of it, is how helpful saying this about oneself can be.
On one hand, I like frankness and willingness to take responsibility. I really dislike it in others and myself to not be honest about what happened and attempt to rewrite the past, often to feel better. Though on the other hand, I do think there is truth to some ideas that we listen to the things we say about ourselves and that negative talk can harm your output and growth. Is the solution maybe to be honest about the situation but not describe it in absolute terms about yourself? Something like, "I made this mistake, but I am capable of better."
September 20th, 2022 at 7:58 AM ^
Taking away the fact that he coaches at MSU, i think i would like Tucker. Seems like a pretty good dude and it would be nice to see another successful African American head coach.
September 20th, 2022 at 8:10 AM ^
Frames says hi....
September 20th, 2022 at 8:02 AM ^
Good for him, I really like him as a coach, that said he's an "also receiving votes" level coach, and this year could be really rough but for MSU he's a good fit.
September 20th, 2022 at 8:05 AM ^
Just when I think that guy can't be any stupider, he goes and says something like this...
And TOTALLY redeems himself!!
September 20th, 2022 at 8:16 AM ^
I mean, he’s not wrong.
September 20th, 2022 at 8:19 AM ^
Media: you're a bad coach
Mel: hey, I'm right there with ya
September 20th, 2022 at 8:19 AM ^
In general, I appreciate frank talk and very highly paid managers taking responsibility. That said, this quote will go one of two ways: it will be seen as a forging moment of self evaluation if MSU gets it together and has another early-mid Dantonio era run. Or it will be GIF'd to death and meme'd if MSU ends up having to pay Tucker like 70 million dollars if he's fired in three years.
September 20th, 2022 at 8:23 AM ^
Man does Harbaugh need to beat the brakes off of these guys this year or what?
I fully expect that some of the questionable decisions Tucker made in this game would somehow have worked and paid off against Michigan, but I hope Harbaugh can put this game so far out of reach that watching Tucker go for two ultimately won't matter.
Simply put, he can't afford to go 0-3 against this guy. He just can't. McCarthy, I hope you and the WR corps are licking your collective chops waiting for this game.
September 20th, 2022 at 8:29 AM ^
I love the honest introspection. Haha.
September 20th, 2022 at 8:31 AM ^
Ive called him worse
September 20th, 2022 at 8:32 AM ^
I'm confused. Usually what we hear out of EL is "The players screwed up and didn't do what we told and showed them to do in practice. It's not our fault." (I see you, Izzo) EL buses are kept pretty busy running over players.
What is this personal responsibility thing?
September 20th, 2022 at 10:09 AM ^
Yeah it's super rare these days because there are no upsides and plenty of downsides with showing responsibility, humility, or introspection in this culture.
I'd imagine the players and regents expecting a cult of personality are confused.
September 20th, 2022 at 8:36 AM ^
I think there are better ways to communicate the need for improvement without demeaning yourself so that was a poor choice of words. In the grand scheme of things, MSU is who they are. I feel like they are the same team now as they were with Dantonio. They will pick up an elite player every now and then and also find some diamonds in the rough pretty frequently. When Michigan is good, it is tough for MSU to stay extremely competitive because historically most of the best players in the state come to Michigan when they have been good. The transfer portal has really saved teams like MSU and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I do look forward to our game with them this year because I believe our guys have had that game circled for quite some time since we gave them the game last year.
Go Blue!
September 20th, 2022 at 8:38 AM ^
And here I thought we’d never agree on anything.
September 20th, 2022 at 8:54 AM ^
He has been promoting himself pretty heavy in the media.
I get the sense there could be some epic unraveling John L Smith style if this goes south which it very well could starting next Saturday with Minnesota.
He seemed shaken by Saturday’s performance vs Washington. The problem with calling yourself a horse shit coach is where do go from here?
Minnesota, Maryland, OSU, Wiscy, UofM? MSU could lose the next five.
September 20th, 2022 at 11:59 AM ^
We can only hope 👍
September 20th, 2022 at 8:56 AM ^
Tucker seems like an openly passionate coach--wears his heart on his sleeve more than some others. Not a bad thing in and for itself. I agree with an earlier comment that taking the blame for a bad performance is a reasonable strategy if/when used sparingly. It helps the team flush the bad performance and move on. Everyone knows that the statement isn't literally true, including the players, but a statement such as this one is like a Get out of Jail Free card.
Meanwhile I think the jury is still out as to whether or not Tucker is a really good coach vs. a just fine/mediocre coach (ie. good recruiter with limited results). Playing UW in Seattle is a tough gig no matter what--I remember Michigan's trip there during the Steve Smith era in the 80's when we lost a close game. Just not easy to travel all that way and overcome the home field advantage, especially when the local fans know that they are in the national spotlight as hosts of a big game against a well-known and prominent program.
I maintain that beating MSU this year will be more challenging than beating Iowa here in Iowa City. I expect us to beat MSU, without taking them for granted, but it will be a rock fight for sure.
September 20th, 2022 at 1:28 PM ^
I think our game against Penn State will be our second toughest game this yr. Penn State will be coming off a bye with two full weeks to prep for us, and we would be entering our 7th game in a row without a bye. More importantly, Penn State looks good this year. 41-12 in SEC country has to be respected, IMO.
September 20th, 2022 at 8:58 AM ^
Tucker is overrated. Yes, he gets credit for getting K9 but also he hid so many of MSU's problems. This year in one game against a real team they could not run the ball at all and their secondary is no better. I won't look past them but if we protect McCarthy our WRs will feast.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:02 AM ^
At my company (which has a really well-built culture), we are told to "own the mistake, then focus on the road forward." That's always felt, intuitively, like the right approach to me.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:08 AM ^
They needed to fly out Thursday afternoon at the latest. That game was over before it started.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:36 AM ^
I said it last year and I'll say it again, this man owes Kenith Walker 40 million dollars!
September 20th, 2022 at 9:40 AM ^
A no bullshit kind of guy, just a bullshit coach. Agreed.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:46 AM ^
Personally I think he’s being honest, because he is in fact a horseshit coach. His record speaks exactly to that fact.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:49 AM ^
My theory is he is deflecting all other shortcomings by making it look like he is owning it. For more than 2 years, your DBs are shit. You just realized that and share publicly? Do you see Harbaugh taking 2 plus years to realize something? No. Harbaugh makes changes off season. It may not work but he tries.
His decisions during the game are crap and luck based. When it works, ala Michigan game, it feels great. But you are eventually going to be burned like 2 point conversions and going for on 4th downs quite a bit. Desperation.
He was revered for his portal usage. I argue that it shows lack of player development. Trying to use a duck tape to fix your inherent team issues. Taking one or two proven players is fine but trying to "buy" players never works and you will be exposed eventually.
I am not bought into all this talk about his players never quit. His team was down big for almost three quarters. If your players didn't quit first three quarters, then they were flat out unprepared which is on the coach.
They rely heavily on one or two players. Missing one key WR and one key DL means doom. That is again showing the lack of player development and relying too much on a great player. Not a sign of a good team.
Lastly, the psychology of calling yourself names for a bad loss does not make you a better coach. Say less. Show it in action. You had more than 2 years to correct it and you haven't done shit. Saying publicly makes you a drama queen who needs attention.
LOL. I guess I have a lot to say about MSU and their coach. They are paying way too much for what they are getting out of him. They did beat UM twice. There is that.
September 20th, 2022 at 10:56 AM ^
I don't really think you can dig Tucker for how he has used the portal. He came in to tricky circumstances. Basically a perennial Top 25 team whose former coach had kind of mailed it in, he was facing a "rebuild with expectations." Now, it is time for him to start developing his own players at this point but he won a New Years 6 game during the rebuild. He certainly needs to own it if MSU begins to struggle but I am not sure you can handle a coaching transition from the most successful coach in modern history of a program better than Tucker has to this point.
September 20th, 2022 at 11:07 AM ^
I agree about his portal usage masking some development woes. I hard all offseason that he definitely didn't want to be the portal team again...and then he had nearly 30 guys transfer in and out of the program this season. Guys leave and what-have-you, but that's a ton of turnover for a roster and seemingly was made to fill holes that he couldn't in recruiting. That's not a long-term recipe for success and combined with his mediocre in-state recruiting numbers I have a sense that MSU is being treated a bit like a flipped properly but Tucker and the foundation isn't particularly solid.
September 20th, 2022 at 1:51 PM ^
I really like Harbaugh. But there are a few things it has taken him 2 plus years to realize. Like tempo.
Granted your point is still a good one. Harbaugh would not put up with secondary play like that for anywhere near this long without trying different things and making big changes.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:55 AM ^
I cannot recall agreeing with Mel Tucker any more strongly than in this statement.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:57 AM ^
I agree with Mel on this, for the first time.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:57 AM ^
putting aside the "let's point and laugh at sparty" aspect - which is frankly delicious - i think it's a legit question regarding how useful this kind of public talk can be.
as you say, "this is on me"-type statements are one thing. "i'm a horseshit coach" is entirely different. on some level, the first can instill some measure of confidence in the coach's willingness to work hard with everyone else, while the second can make you wonder if the boss isn't feeling in over his head. which tucker probably is. best not to point it out.
September 20th, 2022 at 10:13 AM ^
Yeah, the key difference is saying "I'm a horseshit coach" instead of "I coached a horseshit game". The former implies future failure.
September 20th, 2022 at 10:37 AM ^
It's a "legit" question? This is just a flub. Sure, he could've said something better, but he's not a candidate in an election. His real problem is that he just got his arse whipped.
The reality is that head coaches are public figures, but they're not hired to be public figures, yet they're expected to be public figures anyway. Plenty of people have put themselves down after embarrassing failure and among ourselves it's just called blowing off steam, but coaches aren't allowed to be human, I guess.
Our own HC is a weird person -- honestly, everything about JH screams Asperger's -- and that's probably a big reason he's as successful as he's been. So it's a strange expectation to me that coaches -- sleep-deprived, work-obsessed, "high-functioning lunatics" (as Brian calls them) -- are also expected to be teflon-smooth with mics and cameras shoved in their faces.
I don't know Tucker personally, and I ain't saying this was his finest hour. I'm just asking why "guy loses game, gets emotional, then says emotional thing" can't be the Occam's Razor here?
September 20th, 2022 at 11:48 AM ^
i mean, i guess. he made a mistake and said something out of legitimate frustration, and we're reading way too much into it. both things can be true.
September 20th, 2022 at 12:10 PM ^
His problem is that his secondary is showing zero signs of improvement, and he is one of the guys responsible for the DBs. And this on the heels of signing a $95M contract. And after he and his team and his fans have been chirping a lot. He inherited a rough situation, but some of the heat is deserved.
And for right or for wrong, as a head coach you know that you are under a microscope. He is now under a $95M microscope.
September 20th, 2022 at 12:57 PM ^
Hmmm.... A little sympathy and understanding for a MSU coach? One with 95 million dollar contract? When you are a top paid coach in a conference with a lot of big boys, criticisms are going to pile on. That is just the way it is.
September 20th, 2022 at 10:58 AM ^
Yeah, it was an inarticulate answer (I assume he meant more the former than the latter) but it's also a bit of a nuclear option when it comes to accepting blame for a bad game. At this point he's now said publicly that he screwed up and combined with how ill-prepared his team looked at Washington (don't buy that 11-point difference; this was a blowout from the jump) he has to be careful to still convey coherence and faith in his process. I do think he'll make some personnel changes and that may help stem the tide but it's also unlikely he's got a bunch of elite corners and safeties hanging out on that bench. And if he does and hasn't played them yet that's not a good sign for him either.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:58 AM ^
He isn't wrong.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:59 AM ^
I think that Tucker is following the same path that Hoke did. Miracle start with K( (and several poop gold brick wins), but with each passing year, the warts and flaws of the program become more and more evident.
The next 5 games for MSU now seems far more daunting (Minny, Maryland, OSU, Wisconsin, and us). I can only see 2 wins at the most in that group. While it will not happen, 0-5 is very much a possibility.
Minny, underrated defense will keep MSU in check, they are well coached and the offense will score enough points (FYI - these guys are my pick to win the West)
Maryland - Passing...passing...and more passing. After watching what UW did, do they even try to run the ball. MSU offense will not be able to keep up, but Maryland does have a habit of shooting themselves in the foot and that is what Sparty thrives on...
OSU - 49-0 last year at the half, new year same result. This is where I believe the Maryland game will be critical. If they lose to Maryland, that means they will be on a 4 game losing streak and the year will be teetering on a free fall....
Wisconsin - Not sold on Mertz to take maximum advantage of MSU defense, this is the other game I believe they may be able to squeeze out in a rock fight.
Us - I know, this is their Super Bowl and if the previous 4 game goes anything like above, this really will be their Super Bowl cause a loss almost ensures they don't go to a bowl game.
2-3 - 50% chance they follow that scenario
1-4 - 35% chance
0-5 - 8% chance
3-2 - 5% chance
4-1 - 1.9999999999% chance
5-0 - .0000000001% chance
Oh the state Sparty land would be if they are 2-6 and handcuffed for another 7-10 years with Tuck..... (not that I believe they would wait that long)
September 20th, 2022 at 10:26 AM ^
September Maryland will show up on Oct 1st and secure the win at home.
September 20th, 2022 at 10:05 AM ^
I like that he's taking on the responsibility, but that should open him up for more criticism IMO. He's a defensive coach, and specifically their DB coach. His teams are not good on that side of the ball. Now that he's made his comment, people can now go back and look at his career to see if he was a track record of being a horessh*t coach.
Despite a spotty coaching record, dude was handed $90 million. Since then, his teams have gone 4-2 with two blowout losses and one of those wins was the Peach Bowl where Pitt was down to their third string QB and almost won the game despite choking away the lead.
If Saturday night is not an aberration, things are going to be ugly because PSU looks solidly like the third best team in the East and MD and Rutgers are showing that they won't be easy outs.
September 20th, 2022 at 10:10 AM ^
i agree with him
September 20th, 2022 at 10:21 AM ^
He's beaten us twice now. Am afraid he's formidable. I hope the program tanks but it doesn't seem so. They came back strong vs Washington and some of their players look good. Our team seems to never take them seriously enough, until it's too late... We have to beat them this year.
September 20th, 2022 at 12:16 PM ^
Washington ran into the one MSU strength in multiple goal-to-go situations. And they stopped trying to get first downs. And they lost contain on the QB easily a dozen times. And MSU converted many improbable 4th downs. If all of that goes in your favor, and you lose by two scores, you may not be a great team.
If we play as hard as they do, and have a reasonable game plan, it shouldn't be that close.
September 20th, 2022 at 12:21 PM ^
We've been using this excuse for years, that its their super bowl and we didn't expect the ferocity... Bo used that excuse when he lost to them. Thats on the coaches if they can get the team to play hard, and yet somehow it seems they always play harder....except the Speight year and we send him away....crazy...
September 20th, 2022 at 10:21 AM ^
I don’t think he’s a horseshit coach. I just don’t think he’s what Spartan fans thought they were getting. He’ll be around so long as he hits double digit wins every few years. I think it will become apparent as this season unfolds that last year was an anomaly. They simply weren’t as good as their record. Also, losing Walker changes everything on the offensive side of the ball.
September 20th, 2022 at 12:22 PM ^
What ? He is well over par for the course, based on Sparty expectations for him. He has done quite well.
September 20th, 2022 at 12:59 PM ^
It is still a very small sample size. They threw Saban money at a guy because he beat us in the nightmare covid year, beat us when the refs took a TD off of the board on the worst review in years, and because he beat Pitt without their top two QBs. KW papered over a ton of shortcomings, and now we will see if he can really earn his money.
September 20th, 2022 at 10:30 AM ^
He's not a horsesh** coach. To the question, it can affect perceptions. I think it's a negative for those outside the immediate program, like fans, boosters, etc, but with his contract, that's not a particular concern. It can be a negative or a positive for those inside, players, assistants, etc., and that depends on having a good feel for it. Obviously, I can't judge which way that goes.