The recruiting debacle provides anecdotal evidence that we didn't cheat before
Ryan Day simply holds a press conference and gives his payroll budget request ($14 million).
We already have an idea of what D. Moore is being offered to go to Oregon. (I heard $5 million)
Dan Patrick reported that one QB prospect was asking $8million
We lose the Prince of Michigan royalty to Notre Dame (good luck to the kid really).
Raylen Wilson decommit.
The Hunter Wilson pleas for a better NIL system.
This does provide me the sober satisfaction that Michigan wasn't paying players. If we were, we'd be a lot better at this than what we're showing.
How much is a Big Ten Football Championship worth to the Athletic department? How much value is 16 million viewers to watch 3.5 hours of The Game? Tens of millions of dollars, hundreds over multiple years.
Those big games, with the big dollar signs attached to them, are built off the success of 18 year old kids. Aidan Hutchinson added incredible value to the university. I think its only fair that he (and others critical to the success of the team) get compensated fairly for that value.
You're right the add value to that pot of money. The problem is NIL can't come from that pot.
The way Hutchinson did it is the way NIL should be. He put the work in and created a value for himself. Paying a high school kid millions of dollars to just come to a university is insane. Do I wish Michigan would do it, yeah. I'm pretty emotionally invested in Michigan athletics. But there is zero chance I'd be giving a kid who has never played a down at the school that amount of money. You create that value after you arrive.
Happens in all the other sports but, insane
This is Michigan, we don't do that. We'll Coach Yost did but...
My 75 yr old Mom says the same thing and extrapolating it to all sports. And like you she doesn't get it's a business not simply a 501(c)(3) game.
I don't know that your premise holds after players were on campus. Michigan folks probably didn't pay them to commit/show up but I don't doubt some players were getting paid when they were on campus.
Does anyone remember last season and how people on here predicted our demise at every turn? The open threads were insufferable until late in the season. Fun times. I hope they don't repeat.
to be fair open threads are always insufferable unless it's a 77-0 game
Even then...
“People ask me what the difference is between athletes today and 40 years ago — today everybody wants to talk about their rights and privileges, and 40 years ago we talked about our obligations and responsibilities.” - Lou Holtz
It's unfortunate, but it's reality. One of the hot topics these days is people proclaiming their preferred pronouns. In reality, everyone's are the same - me, myself and I.
NIL is just the next step in that evolution. It's unstoppable. So, either play the game the way it's being played today or get left behind.
Lou Holtz is full of shit. He was the dude having those conversations with Notre Dame recruits about how they had a right to the money he was offering them and the privileges they would get at Notre Dame that other places wouldn't offer. That dude doesn't get to complain about the world he helped create by operating Notre Dame like an SEC school.
I've studied a TON of history, especially the last century in the process of doing Michigan history and placing those teams in the context of their times. Trust me on this: People have always been people, and have always been striving mostly to hold onto what they have or believe they're entitled to. The kids in 1892 were identity-seekers. The kids in 1932 were identity-seekers. The kids in 1982 were identity-seekers. The transition from a person dominated by adults to one competing with the adults for a place at the table has always triggered the same response. And adults have always looked out for themselves until something bigger than they can handle comes along and they need to team up.
I agree that the biggest cultural shift in the lifetimes of those living has been between group identity and individualism, most dramatically between boomers and their "I just survived the Depression and WWII, can we *PLEASE* just conform?" parents. But like I said, kids have ALWAYS been identity seekers, and the increasing degree of adults' tolerance is a continuation of a trend you can trace back to the Enlightenment that was punctuated only by major disruptions, notably the Great Depression and WWII both hitting one after another in my grandparents' youths. If anything, the trend towards individuality seems to be tailing off, with the left becoming more involved in community politics and labor unions when those institutions were in the process of dying out, and the right increasingly defining their identities through their politics.
You had me at "Lou Holtz is full of shit"
Individuality is still going strong by among center-right. Not really religious. Definitely not communalists.
Patriotism is, however, dying. People are more loyal to this or that identity more than the country. For my grandfather’s generation it was country over everything.
The last WWII Medal of Honor recipient, Woody Williams, died yesterday. A poignant reminder that the generation that survived a depression and world war is rapidly passing into history.
Yep, the greatest generation is now almost extinct. RIP Woody Williams!
Obligatory Lou Holtz
Also the TV deals. There wasn't enough money in the system. Now there is. And of course, people will talk about their rights and privileges, why shouldn't they?
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."
Socrates, 470BCE (2,491 years ago)
At least we have the most loaded offense in memory this coming year and hopefully our defense can come around. Perhaps some more epic Big House scenes will help turn around recruiting. If not, then the transfer portal (for those with the impeccable academic credentials to get in).
Oh yeah. This has to be our year. Because we will get passed real quick at this rate
Warde needs to be fired and the Regents need to hire a quality President who understands how much athletics helps the university and not just focus on pulling out of state students.
If we hire another Schlissel, we're really up shit's creek.
Which is what they are probably aiming for.
Is that better or worse than being up Schlitz Creek?
When you're out of Schlitz Creek, you're out of ???
It's really funny how it mostly the same people here clutching pearls, tearing their clothes, and gnashing their teeth about recruiting, the Vikings, etc. were the same people who last summer were calling for Harbaugh's head, wanted Matt "Young Brady Hoke" Campbell, and saying how Michigan football is on the decline, predicting 6 wins, can't win the B1G with Harbaugh, blah blah blah.
If I bet based on y'alls constant complaining, I'd be broke.
It's just a game guys. relax. i don't know how you can get so worked up over this.
Everything is fine, nothing to see here. :-D
Can't wait to hear about an 18 year old getting $8 mil, buying a Ferrari, wearing lots of jewelry, flashing cash around, deciding he doesn't need to go to class, and then having to face his teammates who don't command nearly as much in NIL and have to work much harder than him to maintain their positions, and still try to be on a team. That should go over well. And then imagine being the coach and trying to pull all these guys together.
It's already been happening for some time now, it was just not public. They represent a lot of the CFP participants every year.
I have a hard time believing the players were getting paid more than the coaches.
We've been paying players. It's a question of how much money, and how much the program is involved (assistants: some, head coach: absolutely none). Trust me, a player with his hand out at Michigan will get something. I participated in it myself in the '90s and early '00s by giving out the "athlete discount" at Pizza Bob's.
The difference, other than amount, between Michigan and most schools before NIL was Michigan wouldn't have a conversation about dollar amounts. There were some assurances that guys would be taken care of, and pre-Harbaugh there were offers matched by independent boosters. But if you brought up "my son needs X to make this happen" on your visit, you would be told you're selling yourself short because your Michigan connections will make way more than that, and if you insisted on promises or money up front they stopped recruiting you.
I don't have nearly as many stories from the NIL era because it's so new, but basically what's happened at most schools--some that would surprise you--since NIL is those conversations are more in the open and for a lot more money. I have no doubt Dante Moore was sat down and told he's going to make X in his career at Oregon, and however they need to make that work with NIL they will. I also know for a fact that Michigan believes doing that will be illegal in Michigan under the current law, and won't change their policy without the law changing.
I'm sorry I can't give you names and schools but I don't get any information if I can't keep it vague enough.
It was an open secret on campus in the 1980s that the old Thano's Lamplighter restaurant on Liberty was very "accommodating" towards the basketball team, largely because the owner was a big Michigan basketball fan. I never heard about it extending to anything beyond food being offered at very "reasonable" prices, though.
I remember that, too. But that's so pale in comparison to talk of getting $8 mil in NIL. They should be getting free meals, and anything else that makes their lives easier in a reasonable way during college. The NCAA let this get away from them and it's really too bad. They could've set this up so that "school" factors in. You come here to learn, so learn about finances and agents and things that dovetail with having a pro career. Because the schools and the NCAA make money off you, you should get something back -- everyone on the team, though, not just the three guys who will be stars someday and who will make a ton of dough at that point (and that's if they pan out). Keep this a team game, where everyone benefits. With NIL, alumni and boosters are essentially gambling on these guys. They may pool money together to pay someone in the 7 figures, but what if the guy's a bust? What if he gets injured his freshman year and is never the same? Do you then withhold the money? Pay him anyway? There are no boundaries in this scenario, no oversight.
" I also know for a fact that Michigan believes doing that will be illegal in Michigan under the current law"
I'd say "knows" not "believes"... the law is pretty clear about "prospective students".
nevermind
If you could just slap a block M tattoo on Bartd forehead, this would be my favorite meme ever.
And as long you're going through the trouble...the NCAA Logo on Ms. Krabbappel
If you think any of this is evidence of anything, stay out of forensics. This post is full of wrong information, and a lot of people "heard" something.
Old bag ladies all day everyday. Why don't you just write a gossip column about NIL everyday. Dang ad nauseum ever cross your mind? Ask Will Johnson if he agrees with,"THIS POST!"
Wash, rinse, delete!!!
I'm here for the melt down.
No idea what's going on, but if you take off the blue goggles, you'll see a class that will be lucky to end up top 35.
Michigan was 100% paying kids in the past once on campus. You are foolish to think otherwise
Not only paying, but abusing them too!
I love Michigan football. I grew up in Michigan. I went to school at UofM. I lived and worked in Ann Arbor for a few years after college. I played HS football and was very proud of my team. I wish I had played a sport in college. There is something really cool about the student-athlete representing where they are from and beating the team from wherever else. It's fun to "hate" your rival HS or college team.
I don't really like pro sports and the NFL in particular. I dislike that players are basically rentals. They have no real loyalty to the team or the region. At one point players played for their team for most of their career, but those days are largely gone.
With the transfer portal and NIL college is now pro sports. It isn't really about your school or your state or your region. We need to get out the money canons, because we still want to compete, but it makes me sad. My view is probably romantacized and never existed, but the illusion of it is shattered.
EDIT: We should be over the remorse of our romantic illusions dying at this point. Why aren't we paying Dante Moore and everyone else on par with Nike(Oregon), Bama, T A&M and OSU?
Pro players mostly never had commitment to one team - they were bound to negotiate a new contract to play another year for the same team or to ask to be released or traded. They had no freedom to change teams unless they were given an unconditional release.
The idea of playing for the love of your team - especially in a sport as dangerous as football - is mostly bullshit and has been for a long time.
Offer your services to a team > Get paid money to set you and your family up for life potentially (even in college) > live with crippling injuries and arthritic joints for the rest of your life > Postmortem discovery of CTE in your brain.
Michigan’s board needs to get with the times. If the state law is holding them back, then it needs to be modified to allow its flagship schools to compete with the big boys.
All it’s going to take, unfortunately, is for some recruiting classes to fall into the bottom half of the Power 5. Once the results from such lackluster recruiting starts to show in the on-field results - negatively impacting the school’s biggest recruiting tool for athletes and non-athletes - things will change. Or they won’t, because this is Michigan, and playing with one hand tied behind your back is the way things are done.
There is no better feeling in the world than delivering a bone-crushing hit or running for a touchdown. People play football because they can't get enough of that feeling. People who play football are young and don't think about being crippled because they think they are still invincible.
"My view is probably romantacized and never existed, but the illusion of it is shattered."
Probably-but your view is not alone.
"With the transfer portal and NIL college is now pro sports. It isn't really about your school or your state or your region. We need to get out the money canons, because we still want to compete, but it makes me sad. My view is probably romantacized and never existed, but the illusion of it is shattered."
But it has never been about your state or your region - we don't want to lose MI recruits, but we have no problem with out-of-staters (even though they're deserting their respective states and regions) especially if they're ranked higher than the kid from MI - and I'd argue it's not about your school until you're enrolled and part of it. We're talking about recruiting, prior to enrollment - so what makes an elite athlete (the type we're obsessing over now) choose UM in 1990 or 2000 or 2015? Are those reasons truly better than the reasons now?
If you have a problem with the lack of loyalty being demonstrated by the # of transfers, that's a different topic - but I think that's more about removing the barrier to transferring than about some recent lack of loyalty.
I'm not trying to criticize, bc your edit makes it clear you're looking forward and I think I agree with you, but I'm just so curious if we really look back and think "yeah, all these out-of-state 4*s and 5*s came to UM because there's something truly different about UM that's noble & meaningful & apparent to 17-year-olds just learning about UM for the first time"? I find it hard to believe that the "something" was not related to money - either we paid recruits (enough) directly or we paid for the best facilities or the best staff, and I don't think any of it was more noble than today.
You must not be from Michigan. UofM is the best public school in the nation and is the fruit of the state of Michigan's superiority. The state of Michigan is so damn good that we've got a second B1G school just for the hell of it. Getting recruits from other states is a sign of our mojo. It is like a guy with big charisma who gets the best looking girlfriends. There is something special about him and people want to be a part of it.
With NIL the wealthy guy with no charisma gets all of the ladies. The stupid thing is that Michigan is wealthy too, but we're just sitting here with our charisma in our hand. Our charisma should still matter.