Fitz probable winner of job but Green not in first pack of RBs if season started today
According to this scuttlebutt (edit: not scuttlebutt but direct quote), Fitz would be the starter tomorrow but the 2 freshmen would be behind the returning RB crew of Rawls, Hayes, and Drake. Since the season starts in 10 days that seems unlikely to change dramatically in a short period of time. Could be a nod to the veteran players but seems the "Green is 2nd in line" talk is premature.
In fact, Hoke said his hierarchy right now would probably feature Toussaint, redshirt freshman Drake Johnson and juniors Thomas Rawls and Justice Hayes -- with Green and fellow freshman De'Veon Smith falling somewhere behind the pack.
August 20th, 2013 at 8:10 PM ^
Double post FTW
August 20th, 2013 at 8:10 PM ^
Showing up to camp at 240lbs wasn't the best way to do that. IMO he will be watching for a while.
August 20th, 2013 at 8:55 PM ^
August 20th, 2013 at 9:41 PM ^
Everyone on this board gets butthurt every time someone critisizes Green's weight. Green will not redshirt but needs to get into fighting shape before seeing significant playing time. I guarantee next year at this time Al Borges will be telling the media how much better Green looks after dropping some weight.
August 20th, 2013 at 9:49 PM ^
August 20th, 2013 at 8:29 PM ^
Mike Hart was a lightly regarded 3 star who ran for tons of yards against "inferior opponents" in HS supposedly. His ascent actually is a counter argument to your point. The fact a freshman who according to stars would be a "sure redshirt" could win the job that quickly, says a lot about Mike Hart. I am not saying Green should win it from Fitz who by all accounts if he is back to 2011 form is a fine runner - but he should not be losing to the Rawls of the world.
August 20th, 2013 at 7:57 PM ^
One of Green & Smith needs to redshirt!!!
August 20th, 2013 at 8:01 PM ^
August 20th, 2013 at 8:26 PM ^
Running backs of his stature don't redshirt.
August 20th, 2013 at 10:21 PM ^
Do you want to dance?
August 20th, 2013 at 8:01 PM ^
August 20th, 2013 at 8:05 PM ^
Green not being in the first pack isn't really surprising. He got hurt and is a tad over weight. I also wouldn't be surprised if it was like Kalis and they want him to RS.
August 20th, 2013 at 8:05 PM ^
August 20th, 2013 at 9:32 PM ^
Very good point about the not getting Gardner creamed part.
This year especially there will be an emphasis on running backs that can block and protect the quarterback. Especially since we only have like one and a half quarterbacks to protect.
August 20th, 2013 at 9:57 PM ^
+1 Interesting
August 20th, 2013 at 8:10 PM ^
No big deal, kickoff isn't until...........oh God only 11 days left.
August 20th, 2013 at 8:18 PM ^
...but not really.
August 20th, 2013 at 8:28 PM ^
Even if that pack of guys starts the season as the guys getting the most reps, I could still see Green or Smith playing more as the season goes on. Running back is not a difficult position for freshmen to contribute, and Toussaint gets injured every year except in 2011. Rawls and Hayes haven't done jack squat, and I'm wary of the Drake Johnson hype.
August 20th, 2013 at 8:40 PM ^
I think Hayes will be our 3rd down back, plus they can always use him as an audible back to go from the backfield to the slot, since everyone says he's our best RB at catching the ball.
August 20th, 2013 at 9:03 PM ^
Agreed. If this is a case of the kid didnt come in at the right weight and/or needs more time to learn the system then his playing time should increase as the season goes by. Will be interesting to see where Smith falls in all this. If he too is playing meaningful minutes in Big 10 season this whole pecking order thing will be seen as a motivational tool I suppose. Should be interesting.
August 20th, 2013 at 8:28 PM ^
Word is he's an excellent pass catcher out of the backfield, and so I figure he's probably Vincent Smith 2.0.
As far as Green goes, no one thought he would start from game 1. And did anyone think he would be the 3rd down back? No, he'll get a few garbage time carries early on, then a few non-garbage time carries and then, if those go well, more and more carries as the season progresses. I don't think there's much chance he ever becomes our #1 back this year, but he should end up our #2 or #3 option on 1st and 2nd downs, and possibly our #1 in short yardage situations.
August 20th, 2013 at 8:33 PM ^
" no one thought he would start from game 1." Nonsense - read these boards since last January or whenever he committed. The talk was he would compete with Fitz and "by the Big 10 season should pass Fitz to be the starter" by A LOT of people. Those who did not say that thought he'd be a clear #2. Again, this is just talk by Hoke today. Let's see what happens in a few weeks but the rationalization on this board about "redshirting" and "needs to learn playbook" and "needs to learn to block" does not work with what the #1, #2, #3 type RBs across the country do at other schools when they get there.
August 20th, 2013 at 10:09 PM ^
Wasn't Ty Isaac a highly-rated RB last year? I don't see him on USC's depth chart and I haven't heard anything about him.
The season hasn't even started yet. I don't think either of the freshman backs were early entries, so they will probably be lower on the depth chart 2 weeks into camp.
August 21st, 2013 at 11:35 AM ^
I don't know much about the depth players at USC outside of Silas Redd. I went to google it today since I was curious myself since Isaac was a big Michigan target. But without doing research I have no idea what caliber these other kids are. The idea with Green of course was last year when given a chance none of the other kids (Drake not eligible) flashed much with Fitz out so there was a ready made spot in the depth chart for a star freshman to go in and grab versus maybe the situation at some other schools.
Sophomores Tre Madden and Buck Allen and freshmen Justin Davis and Ty Isaac are available tailbacks.
August 21st, 2013 at 11:34 AM ^
Double Post
August 20th, 2013 at 10:46 PM ^
"No one" was being used rhetorically, not to mean literally not a single person. But let me rephrase with clarifications:
FEW people WITH KNOWLEDGE OF THE PROGRAM and TRENDS AMONG ELITE FBS FOOTBALL PROGRAMS thought he would start from game 1
NOTE: "starting from game 1" doesn't mean "never starting" or "never getting meaningful carries." It also does not mean "will defintiely not be established as our #2 back." It just means someone else will get the first carry, and someone else will MOST LIKELY get the majority of carries for AT LEAST the first game of the season--and probably much more.
August 20th, 2013 at 8:41 PM ^
It's not scuttlebutt. It's a direct quote from the head coach.
August 20th, 2013 at 8:57 PM ^
scuttlebutt defined:
a nautical term refering to a drinking fountain
OR
a slang term used to reference gossip or rumor.
this post is neither.
August 20th, 2013 at 9:06 PM ^
corrected ;)
August 20th, 2013 at 9:03 PM ^
I thought Drake Johnson was very underrated coming out of high school. He went to Ann Arbor Pioneer which plays decent competition and absolutely destroyed everyone. If you look at his highlight reel you'll wonder how he was only a two star guy (not that rankings are the end-all). Plus the kid was a track star. Wouldn't be surprised if he turns into a good back both this year and his career overall.
August 20th, 2013 at 9:12 PM ^
August 20th, 2013 at 9:14 PM ^
August 20th, 2013 at 9:34 PM ^
Not surprising at all. It's unlikely we'll ever see a true freshman QB/RB combo starting ever again. And considering Underwood started the first few games in 2004 and Hart eventually got the nod, things can change.
August 20th, 2013 at 9:46 PM ^
August 20th, 2013 at 10:42 PM ^
So Hayes should become a slow receiver (I'm assuming you mean "slot") and leave a bunch of 5'11", 230 lb. backs to catch screens and run routes out of the backfield?
August 20th, 2013 at 11:17 PM ^
August 21st, 2013 at 7:08 AM ^
August 20th, 2013 at 10:15 PM ^
August 20th, 2013 at 10:44 PM ^
Well, he is dealing with a sprained ankle. And Hoke said that if the season were to start today, Green would not be in the top group. It's not hard to believe that the ankle and his place on the depth chart are related.
August 20th, 2013 at 10:50 PM ^
...he's a true freshman AND it's the first game of the season. As someone pointed out, Mike Hart didn't start the first game of his freshman season either.
I do expect Green to get a lot of meaningful carries (and more as the season progresses), but even without the injury I figure he'd probably be #3 for game 1 (and mostly featured in the 4th quarter).
August 20th, 2013 at 10:53 PM ^
August 21st, 2013 at 12:39 AM ^
I remember the recruiting buzz about Rawls on this board when he was trying to qualify academically and earn an offer (he was supposedly underrated big time because the recruiting services thought he might not be eligible to play) and as recently as the middle of last season loads of people were clamoring for him to replace Fitz or at minimum get 10-15 carries a game going forward after his big game against Illinois.
Now no one seems to view it as even a remote possibility that he might legitimately be ahead of a couple true freshmen on the depth chart.
Time flies.
August 21st, 2013 at 12:54 AM ^
Those highly touted backs are different than the other highly touted backs.
I would love to see Rawls have a break-out year. I'm basing that on precisely nothing other than the fervant desire to believe that someone can be better after two years of practice and conditioning. If not, we should stop it and avoid the injuries.
August 20th, 2013 at 10:33 PM ^
August 20th, 2013 at 10:48 PM ^
Fitz and Glasgow sound like starters to me.
Hoke isn't gonna start an unproven true freshman over a proven senior who has a family to support and needs the attention so he can get an NFL paycheck.
Glasgow is "big and powerful" compared to Miller who is "smart". You can get smarter over the course of a season playing as center, but you're not getting any bigger. Just look at a picture of Miller. He looks like somebody trying desperately to add weight, but who doesn't have the genes for it. He looks as puffy as a marshmallow.
If I'm Hoke, I'm fed up with the same questions/demands from the media:
- Who's gonna be the center
- Tell us how Derrick Green is going to be awesome
- Give me a fluffy quote about "hearing football"
- Tell us that all of the 4 and 5 star underclassmen are starting
- Why are all of the 4 and 5 star underclassment not starting
- Do a bubble screen
- Run the pistol offense
- Is Devin Gardner basically RGIII
- Why is a walk-on starting on the OL
#hotsprotstakes
August 20th, 2013 at 10:52 PM ^
Some "insiders" are suggesting that Miller is the center, period. According to them, Glasgow is battling for the starting LG spot and/or possibly the backup C spot.
August 20th, 2013 at 11:04 PM ^
Of your projected starters, who do you think is the biggest liability?
August 21st, 2013 at 12:04 AM ^
August 21st, 2013 at 3:58 AM ^
yuck. hopefully the rest of the B1G still sucks at airing it out
August 21st, 2013 at 11:53 AM ^
I don't know if I would call any of them liabilities, but I'm concerned about the starting safety opposite Gordon. Poor safety play can make or break your game/season. Just ask the Denver Broncos after their 2012 season ended against the Ravens...