Turner Gill(Kansas) and Larry Porter(Memphis) were fired today after two years.
When Rodriguez was fired people complained that three years was not enough time. He needed four years at least.
Well, two coaches got even less time than Rich did at schools with far less resources to work with then what he had at Michigan. It seems that Kansas and Memphis have less patience than UM does when it comes to losing.
What is going on in college football? Two years at Kansas and Memphis is all one gets? Really?
I think this is going to be the next big story out of college football. The fact that both coaches--both of whom are black--received only two years is going to spark debate. The racial element is going to be a significant driving force behind this story.
It should be interesting to see the reaction to these firings over the next couple of days. The shortage of coaches who are black combined with extraordinary short tenures allowed each coach tells me that this is a story that is going to blow up over the next week.
November 27th, 2011 at 10:44 PM ^
Did you know they only kept Ron Zook on staff for so long because he was white? If he was black they would have fired him faster than you can say "Shellhats".
November 27th, 2011 at 10:52 PM ^
You say that as a joke and obviously no one is going to take it literally, but it's worth noting that no black head coach has ever been given as much leash as Zook nor have they ever been hired in a way that screams cronyism the way something like Gene Chizik at Auburn did.*
*Please don't tell me about Chizik winning a national title. Newton and Fairley provided the flukiest influx of quick-fix talent ever seen. Good chance he will still prove himself to be a bum.
November 27th, 2011 at 11:49 PM ^
When you're running a program the way Auburn does, "cronyism", i.e. hiring someone you absolutely trust, is an essential.
And when someone gets an astonishing influx of quick-fix talent it isn't necessarily a fluke.
November 27th, 2011 at 10:44 PM ^
Interesting post. Thankfully my alma mater (emu) is showing improvement after "embracing the process".
November 27th, 2011 at 10:46 PM ^
The fact that they are both black stinks to high heaven. Race card stories fatigue me as much as anyone sometimes but it's impossible to not raise an eyebrow over this given college football's truly despicable history of head coaching hires.
November 28th, 2011 at 8:04 AM ^
Oh my god. You have got to be kidding me...per Matt Hinton on Twitter:
<quote>For the second year in a row, Kansas ranks last or next-to-last in the Big 12 in rushing offense, rushing defense, passing offense passing defense, pass efficiency defense, total offense, scoring offense, scoring defense, third down offense, third down defense sacks and sacks allowed. The 2011 edition also finished last in the conference in total defense. (Last in the nation, in fact.)</quote>
Turner Gill is an awful coach that took a team from competing in the B12 to being clearly one of the worst in the country.
November 27th, 2011 at 10:47 PM ^
southern states always keeping the Black man down.
November 27th, 2011 at 10:55 PM ^
Kansas is southern?
November 27th, 2011 at 10:59 PM ^
let me re-phrase:
Damn you AMERICA always keeping the black man down.
November 27th, 2011 at 10:47 PM ^
Both those schools are just plain awful at football. They should be happy somebody wants to coach there.
November 27th, 2011 at 10:48 PM ^
Both teams looked pathetic. They didn't show fight or competence. It was like Michigan vs. Mississippi State for two years straight. We showed some progress each year as the offense improved, but ultimately our defense failed us. Yes they have less resources, but neither team instilled confidence that they were going in the right direction so the ADs made the right decision.
November 27th, 2011 at 10:57 PM ^
Do ya watch a lot of Memphis football to observe this supposed "lack of fight"?
November 27th, 2011 at 10:57 PM ^
I grew up in Memphis and watch the Tigers quite a bit. Memphis has been horrendous over the past two seasons, even by Memphis standards.
November 27th, 2011 at 10:48 PM ^
I think it was Charles Barkley that wanted Gill over Chizik at Auburn. I totally think it's unfair to give a coach two years, let alone at Kansas of all places. Turning the Jayhawks into a winning program year after year is no easy task. Also, Gill has a 5 year/ $10 million dollar contract. It seems strange that in this economy Kansas has no problem honoring it.
November 27th, 2011 at 10:48 PM ^
November 27th, 2011 at 10:59 PM ^
You're kidding, right?
November 27th, 2011 at 11:05 PM ^
November 27th, 2011 at 11:02 PM ^
He was on an one year contract. He was never promised a period longer than a season. In no way are the two situations analogous.
November 27th, 2011 at 10:51 PM ^
I'm sure if the situations where racial at all the coaches never would have been hired.
November 27th, 2011 at 10:55 PM ^
Rodriguez was at least showing signs of improvement (offensively at least). Kansas's coach only beat McNeese State(who??) and Northern Illinois (by only 3 points). Clearly things weren't working out well. Also, the Kansas athletic department probably knows more about the situation than we do and did not see any signs of improvement. I would probably fire my head coach too if that were happening.
November 27th, 2011 at 11:22 PM ^
Come on man, Joe Dumars went to McNeese State!
November 27th, 2011 at 10:57 PM ^
With Gill, I think it has way more to do with losing ten in a row with a boss who had nothing to do with his hiring. Also, saying they lost ten in a row isn't enough; mpundmann is right, Kansas has been playing the 2010 Gator Bowl for the past two years straight.
November 27th, 2011 at 11:00 PM ^
have been trending down for the last 5 years, both bottomed out under their current staffs. Kansas had one win in the Big 12 under Gill, Memphis had 3 wins at Memphis both against non-FBS teams. Memphis was also atrocious on defense, like even worse than Michigan last year atrocious.
Kansas hired a new AD, so Turner is being fired by someone who did not hire him. Very similar to Dave Brandon coming on the job at Michigan. An AD that just wants his guy in place.
November 27th, 2011 at 11:01 PM ^
so is Ron English the guy after Brady Hoke?
November 27th, 2011 at 11:09 PM ^
Horrible black coach = horrible coach = try something new
November 27th, 2011 at 11:15 PM ^
as a wannabe black guy I have no problem with these firings.
November 27th, 2011 at 11:29 PM ^
The reality is that sometimes after 2 years you can tell that a coach isn't going to get it done. That was Gill at KU. Sometimes reality isn't PC.
November 27th, 2011 at 11:30 PM ^
Why does race have to be factored into everything? So the teams sucked under those coaches, so they got fired, big deal. Aren't people in every job field scrutinized for performance everyday? Firings are a normal job happening, so what if they're black. If they sucked they sucked. I think the whole Rooney Rule is a damn joke anyway. Not sure if that applies in college positions or just NFL. But one thing about that was last year. Dallas new before the end of the year that Jason Garrett was going to remain the head coach, however they still had to interview black coaches to satisfy the "rule". Now Minnesota new that Leslie Frazier was going to be their coach, but did they have to interview white coaches to satisfy the "rule" or is it just a one-race-sided rule?
November 28th, 2011 at 12:09 AM ^
The Rooney Rule is one of the best things the NFL has ever done. The English Premier League recently met the with NFL to talk about the logistics of adopting it themselves.
Since the Rooney Rule, we have seen four black head coaches appear in the Super Bowl compared to zero before then. That's not a coincidence.
Anyone who has a big problem with a rule that doesn't even make you HIRE someone based on race probably has some issues.
November 28th, 2011 at 12:48 AM ^
Tony Dungy was a head coach before the Rooney Rule was in place. Jim Caldwell was his successor, so you could assume that Dungy had major influence on his hire and had very little to do with race other than knocking out the unnecessary need to interview a minority candidate.
Mike Tomlin was hired by the man whom the rule is named after, so he obviously didn't need the rule to hire a black coach. Rooney himself claims the rule had no effect on his interviewing Tomlin as he had interivewed other minority candidates as well.
The only case you could make for your claim is Lovie Smith but...
I'd say its much more likely that we've seen 4 black coaches in the Super Bowl because A. Two of them coached Peyton Manning and B. Mike Tomlin works for Rooney and the Steelers, the most successful franchise in NFL history.
The Rooney Rule is debatable in its effectiveness. With no such rule, the NCAA increased its amount of black coaches in the past few years. The NBA has done the same, as has NCAA basketball. I'd say the rise in potential candidates has caused this, due to the increased merit of said candidates.
Do you seriously think that the guys hiring coaches get so blown away by an interview process with a coach they are forced to consider because of the rule, that they end up scrapping all the candidates they'd assembled beforehand? Of course not. Smith and Tomlin especially were hired for their work as defensive coordinators.
The Rooney Rule is completely unnecessary - if it ever was necessary to begin with - at this point and should be eliminated so minority coaches don't have to go through the embarassing process of being a token interview.
November 27th, 2011 at 11:30 PM ^
November 27th, 2011 at 11:31 PM ^
November 27th, 2011 at 11:37 PM ^
So John, since you're so privvy to insider info and know FOR CERTAIN that the firings were race related please keep dishing out the evidence. Are you part of said admin that felt said pressures? Otherwise it seems like you're talking out yer ass.
November 27th, 2011 at 11:54 PM ^
cut it out!!! I'm just giving my opinion, the way I see just like everyone else.
how is a given opinion trolling???November 28th, 2011 at 12:12 AM ^
Except your opinion is full of idiocy, so, no, it's not just like everyone else.
November 27th, 2011 at 11:43 PM ^
November 27th, 2011 at 11:53 PM ^
I don't know about Memphis, but I think the deal with Kansas probably had something to do with a new guy in charge. IIRC, hiring Turner Gill was the last act of what turned out to be a corrupt, overpaid athletic director. The fact that the team has gone exactly nowhere, even if they are Kansas, is all the more reason for the new guy in charge to clean house and try to do things his own way.
Its probably not fair, considering that Gill seems like a decent coach and a good guy who was expected to clean up after Mangino's mess, but I can't say it surprises me all that much. I don't think anything Kansas does in football will ever keep their fans from sitting in the stadium thinking "When does basketball start" anyway.
November 28th, 2011 at 12:04 AM ^
I also think plenty of KU fans view Mangino's mess as the geatest era in school history. Fans are often reluctant to believe things were already going downhill when the new guy's predecessor had the kind of success Mangino had when he won the Orange Bowl. When he got pushed out and the new guy didn't deliver right away, I'm sure there was a lot of instant animosity. Throw in a new AD and you can see why they made the hasty change.
November 28th, 2011 at 12:10 AM ^
This is what I was thinking because he came in with quite a bit of cache'. Mangino left KU in a mess, Gill deserved more then 2 seasons to try and stabilize the program. Im sure he'll get picked up somewhere else. Either HC at a mid-major again or an assistant somewhere.
November 28th, 2011 at 12:01 AM ^
Bo Schembechler said a coach deserves five years. That's good enough for me.
November 28th, 2011 at 12:35 AM ^
Turner Gill did a terrible job at Kansas that belied his previous record. The success story for teams that are terrible for the first two years is what, Ron Zook?
The racial bias in coaching seems to be more in who gets hired than who gets fired. African-American coaches have tended not to get shots at good jobs. For the examples I can think of (Turner Gill, Randy Shannon, Ty Willingham), the firings were justified each time.
I'd add that a big fuss over the justified firing of a black coach is actually a deterrent for schools that seek to hire a black coach who don't want to deal with potential negative publicity.
November 28th, 2011 at 12:54 AM ^
Started 9-15, now the team he built is going to its second straight BCS bowl. Frank Beamer started 5-17 and didn't win more than 6 games until his 7th year at VPI. Bill Snyder started 6-16 at Kansas State and didn't go to a bowl game until his 5th season.
Players win games, no matter where you are at. After two years a coach has had pretty much zero impact on who his players are (his first full recruiting class are all true freshmen). Firing anybody after that amount of time who hasn't done something atrocious off the field is completely ridiculous.
November 28th, 2011 at 1:11 AM ^
From Dr. Saturday:
"For the second year in a row, the Jayhawks rank last or next-to-last in the Big 12 in rushing offense, rushing defense, passing offense, passing defense, pass efficiency defense, total offense, scoring offense, scoring defense, third down offense, third down defense, sacks and sacks allowed."
Which isn't to say I necessarily agree with the firing, just something to consider.
November 28th, 2011 at 1:34 AM ^
No way. Racism doesn't exist anymore! This is America! LAND OF THE FREE (AFTER 1865)!!!!!
November 28th, 2011 at 1:36 AM ^
Turner Gill will end up @ Nebraska as the QBs coach or OC when Tim Beck leaves to be a head coach somewhere.
November 28th, 2011 at 1:48 AM ^
FYI
Memphis:
2008 6-7
2009 2-10
2010 1-11
2011 2-10
Kansas:
2008 8-5
2009 5-7
2010 3-9
2011 2-10
These coaches didn't do so well...
Having said that you should at least get 4 years to have a group of seniors under your system playing. Bo said coaches should get 5 years.
But people don't care, in our society instant gratification is everything. If a coach comes in and struggles for a season or two, they'll just point to a coach who did a 1 year miracle turnaround (Mattison) and cry "why can't you do what he did?"
How long do coaches in the NFL last? Seems the Lions had a good coaching carousel going for a while.
November 28th, 2011 at 9:06 AM ^
If he kept him, do you think we're 10-2 this year? I don't. We're 7-5 as Gerg would still be our defensive coordinator. But then again, Bo wouldn't have hired Rich Rod in the first place...
November 28th, 2011 at 1:56 AM ^
I don't have the faintest idea what is responsible for the coaches being fired at Kansas and Memphis. Nonetheless, I find it very disturbing (and disappointing) to read the hostile and contemptuous reactions some on this board have had to any suggestion that race may have been a factor in one or both of those firings.
Coaches don't usually get fired after just two seasons, and African-Americans are still grossly underrepresented among college football head coaches. Whether and how race played into those decisions is a fair question.