OT: Campus Unrest in Happy Valley?
Not another redundant thread about JoePa et. al for the late-night users:
lauraface90
Laura Verne people running up McAllister... view from Penn Towerpic.twitter.com/9DumC5xA
7 minutes ago
lauraface90
People are running up to old main. Got a video. I'll put it up in a bit. What a view from penn tower. Still think this is crazy.
16 minutes ago
lauraface90
I don't understand why people are downtown. At least being at old main made some sense.
26 minutes ago
lauraface90
@katieh09 the cops are way worse. It's getting there
39 minutes ago
lauraface90
They're moving downtown. I've never seen anything like this
43 minutes ago
lauraface90
Something just happened at old main. I can hear the screams from penn tower
46 minutes ago
Edit: In fairness, this may have been a rush to judgment by those reporting and RTing their impressions of it being a 'riot.' It appears to be a rally by students against sexual abuse and in support of the team as part of a 'movement' being Tweeted about by the PSU student account Paternoville.
November 9th, 2011 at 1:30 AM ^
It's difficult to understand the emotion of these college students. They feel that they are being punished for the actions of Sandusky. I wonder though, how many of us would report a family member for child molestation? Is it that cut and dry that we just take them to the police? Pointing fingers is so easy.
As someone who experienced (as a victim) sexual abuse (albeit not at the level of Sandusky's victims, to the extent of my knowledge), I would not ask for prison for Sandusky. I would ideally force him to donate every penny he has to actual functioning charities, seek counseling, and do everything possible (with the help of professionals) to erase the damage that he did. Prison for him would be a death sentence. He did not kill anyone; he just damaged lives. I think he should have to live and be responsible.
November 9th, 2011 at 9:36 AM ^
The guy molested and raped innocent children and you'd rather he have counseling instead of a prison sentence? Seriously? What the hell is wrong with people?
November 9th, 2011 at 9:53 AM ^
You must have missed the part where he said he's been a victim of sexual abuse and wants these things for Sandusky.
November 9th, 2011 at 1:34 AM ^
I don't understand... why didn't any of the parents call the police? Why didn't ANYBODY call the police? It's not like this was only confined only to the athletic department... from an article that I read, some of the victims' mothers knew as well. This could have ended way before Paterno even knew about it, from what I understand.
But even still, what we know is so little of what actually may have taken place. I don't think we should jump to conclusions and what it seems like is happening at Penn State is a defensive reaction to going from respectability to trash, not necessarily a show of solidarity with Coach Paterno.
I guess what I'm saying is that simply because Paterno is a high-profile figure, he's getting the brunt of the negligence discussion... but there are maybe 20 or so other people who have been equally negligent in this case.
November 9th, 2011 at 9:17 AM ^
The first victims mom did call the police. They investigated and, even after getting Sandusky to admit showering with her son, soaping him up, and hugging him from behind, and stating he wished he was dead, the local DA declined to prosecute. Shortly thereafter, Sandusky was forced out but kept his access to the program.
November 9th, 2011 at 1:37 AM ^
I just can't believe that people keep making the EXACT same mistake over and over again... WILL SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!??????
Pedophile State U is in this position specifically because people in power valued the name of the institution over the innocence of the children getting raped. They never stopped to think, what can we do to protect the children. They never asked themselves what can I do so that this never happens again. All they valued was to make sure that their "good name" won't get dragged through the mud.
Now so called "students" are doing the same thing. They are just thinking of how they feel and focused on defending their turf, and not ONCE thinking how their action would be viewed by those who have been abused by that monster.
If you were one of those kids who were raped by that monster, how would you feel that a thousand students were outside of a man's house who did nothing to stop that monster chanting how great he is. How would you feel? Does any of these idiots think cheering this sham of a man is more important than adding more to the anguish of those who were raped?
I feel like puking. This is beyond disgusting.
November 9th, 2011 at 2:18 AM ^
when this whole thing broke, I thought, "JoePa is respectable, there's got to be some way he's innocent in all this." While I still believe he's respectable to some degree, the more of the story that comes out, the more I think he should have done more. It just dawned on me as I was reading everyone's comments, everyone in the Air Force goes through training on how to handle this kind of thing. It's called bystander intervention training. If you're a direct witness to an incident, you bring attention to it and alert law enforcement immediately. If someone tells you about an incident, you alert law enforcement and have an obligation to not sweep it under the rug. The whole "he said, she said" doesn't work here. It's tragic when an adult gets sexually assualted, it's doubly tragic when a child's innocence is stolen by sexual assault. I'm just flabbergasted, the more I think about it, that someone could know of even the possibility that this happened and do nothing more than tell the boss. JoePa, you'll never read this, but you would be retiring this year, potentially, with more respect than you had before the scandal, had you done the right thing when told of these allegations. You'll go down as one of the greatest coaches of all time, but instead will have no respect aside from that. This is what happens when one man, or institution is lauded above one person's, or in this case 8 or 9 children's, well beings. Just simply sad.
November 9th, 2011 at 6:11 AM ^
Alleged number is now at least 20...
November 9th, 2011 at 5:26 AM ^
It looks like a scene of mass denial at PSU, if this is all indeed to support Paterno. In my opinion, if you're PSU, you maybe let him leave quietly and seek legal counsel on his own (bet they don't go that route), but that scene in front of his house and him buying into people cheering him on....it put me right off him and his fans.
November 9th, 2011 at 6:18 AM ^
Would be roughly the same age as the 10 year old who got butt-raped back in 2002. How stupid and delusional are they in Happy Valley? I hope this would not be the reaction in AA under similar circumstances. That creepy smile was very revealing. He literally gets off on it, which could explain why he was able to justify enabling a child molester for over a decade.
November 9th, 2011 at 7:15 AM ^
Maybe one day soon the students cheering JoePa will realize they are cheering a man who is a central figure in bringing shame and embarrassment on their institution. I'll regain some respect for Penn State when the students mount a similarly large mob to demand the president's immediate ouster.
November 9th, 2011 at 7:26 AM ^
If his lawyers would allow him to speak to these students, and tell them he screwed up. He did what he was required to do, but knowing what he knows now, it was clearly not enough. So if anyone ever finds themself in a similar position they should report to the police or child protective services and follow up.
So far Paterno's statement is the only one I have seen reaching out to the victims and their families.
November 9th, 2011 at 7:37 AM ^
It seems to me that, if PSU really cared about salvaging something of Paterno's image, they would not have cancelled the presser yesterday, and they would have let him say something and answer questions (at least those that the lawyers would allow answered, which may not have been very many). I would think that this overture would have gone some ways toward showing that he is wholly remorseful more than a simple statement. Maybe that's just me though.
November 9th, 2011 at 8:18 AM ^
all these students at JoePa's house would be screaming for his head on a platter, and would be blaming Paterno directly for the Sandusky horrors.
Since PSU is in contention for the championship game, instead they're supporting him and basically giving Paterno a pass on the scandal.
The students would indignantly deny it, but they're no different from OSU or Auburn or USC fans. It's all about winning or losing. If their team is winning, they'll turn a blind eye to virtually everything. If their team is losing, they want their coach fired even if he makes Mother Theresa look like John Wayne Gacy.
November 9th, 2011 at 8:52 AM ^
Jesus Christ. I get that they must feel helpless if they love JoePa, are don't want to see him dragged through the mud. I am sure that totally sucks. And it must be horrible to see the school you love be in the press for horrible, horrible reasons. But this just looks crappy, and IMO they are making it worse, not better.
If you must gather, gather in a way that tells the world "This is not what Penn State is about." Do it in support of the victims, or something. Light some candles. Don't roam the campus singing fight songs, for god's sakes.
November 9th, 2011 at 8:59 AM ^
I want to preface this by saying that in light of the details that have come out and the fact that JoePa allowed Sandusky to still remain affiliated with the program after knowledge incidents I believe he has to be fired. However, I do want to say also that I think people who are trying to say JoePa is automatically an awful man for this are not putting themselves in his shoes really.
We all would like to think that if we were in that situation, our immediate reaction would be to do the right thing and report to the police. But put yourself in Joe Pa's shoes for a moment. Imagine if someone came to you accusing your brother, or son, someone you have been close to for over twenty years, of sexually abusing a child. Would you automatically assume it is true and report to the police? I think if you consider how long JoePa knew Sandusky beforehand, it must have complicated things for him. Again, I am not making an excuse and the fact that JoePa did not ask more probing questions, AND allowed the man to keep access to Penn State football is terrible. But I imagine there must have been some fear and denial going on in JoePa's head which are very human emotions when you have a long-term relationship or attachment to someone. JoePa had several children himself. I am sure that in no way shape or form he condones sexual abuse, which makes his actions that much harder to understand. But, again, I believe for JoePa it must have been extremely difficult to think that Sandusky could actually be doing these awful things, based on the fact that Sandusky was his player and very close to him for many years.
The details that have come out, and JoePa's reaction of saying he "did what he was supposed to do," are disturbing and cause for his dismissal. But I am not ready to say he is automatically the worst person in the world because of it. He should have done more, no question. He should have banned Sandusky, no doubt. He should have though of the kids and reported it to the police. But when you have known somebody for a long time and have accusations come out that rock the foundation of who you believed them to be, it must be alot tougher to come to terms with the reality of the situation.
November 9th, 2011 at 9:14 AM ^
Yeah, but 2002 wasn't the first time. Sandusky was investigated in 1998 as well, and "retired" soon after. Maybe once, but when there are multiple reports you no longer have any excuse.
November 9th, 2011 at 9:24 AM ^
November 9th, 2011 at 9:42 AM ^
God bless you bro.... thank God there are a few rational people left. Some of these JoePa apologists here, are both stupid and small-minded.
JoePa should go to jail, as should McQueary.
November 9th, 2011 at 10:59 AM ^
A rational person does not ASSUME guilt before a case has gone before a jury. A rational person wonders why the police did not thoroughly investigate the allegation that he admitted to the crimes in 98'? Is it not odd that Sandusky allegedly admitted guilt to a parent, but nothing was done about it? Why didn't the district attorney file charges? If he had, the subsequent alleged rapes would not have happened.
So many people failed here besides Joe Paterno. Sandusky failed as a human being as did McQueary. The law failed to do its job. It was a systematic failure at all levels of authority.
November 9th, 2011 at 9:01 AM ^
Does anyone else find it just a little too convenient that this whole story, which people with knowledge must have known would end JoePa's career before the season ends (it will), happened to break a week after he breaks the record for career wins?
November 9th, 2011 at 9:10 AM ^
I would be most surprised if the timing had anything to do with Paterno's record, although maybe I am being naive. If that were the case, why would you not wait until the end of the season? I suspect the timing has everything to do with the prosecution of the case.
November 9th, 2011 at 2:43 PM ^
supreme coincidence but they're not going to hold off on arresting a pervert because of football. this all launched into action based upon an arrest.
November 9th, 2011 at 9:05 AM ^
November 9th, 2011 at 9:20 AM ^
Thats sad, kids dont even understand the massivness of this case. This is something people go maximum security prisons for life for, and someone closely affiiliated with this kid's school did it, and his beloved coach didnt do anything about it.
November 9th, 2011 at 9:07 AM ^
a wise teacher once told our class this "a person is smart, people are dumb."
November 9th, 2011 at 9:31 AM ^
Michigan can't control what PSU does...but Michigan should lobby to have PSU out of the B1G if action isn't taken soon to clean house.
Leaders lead.
November 9th, 2011 at 9:45 AM ^
“I’m here to support Joe Paterno, and the media is blowing this [the Sandusky sex abuse scandal] way out of proportion,” he said.
Something like 20 kids got raped by a Penn State assistant coach. How is it even POSSIBLE to blow it out of proportion?
November 9th, 2011 at 9:57 AM ^
I get that students want to support JoePa, but it looks really bad for them and the university to do so. When a large part of the AD is accused of harboring a child rapist, you don't go running through the streets proclaiming that you support one of the harborers unless you are a total fool
November 9th, 2011 at 10:01 AM ^
Seem like a march/vigil/ in support of the alleged victims would be the choice of people with their priorities straight.
And JoePa could have joined that march/vigil.
November 9th, 2011 at 10:03 AM ^
Has anyone been convicted yet? Is there any physical evidence? Did anyone see these acts besides McQueary? If not, then the case boils down to Sandusky's word versus the children. That means this is a far from certain case.
McQueary has creditability issues. Why would he NOT stop the rape if he had indeed had seen it? Why would he tell his dad instead of calling campus police the moment he saw what was going on? These are two troubling questions that need to be answered.
By the way, people who think Paterno is equally as guilty as McQueary are wrong.If this story is is true than McQueary is almost as guilty as Sandusky. He had the opportunity and means to stop the alleged rape. He had the means to call the cops right then and there. He did not. Paterno meanwhile was told by McQueary(second hand information) and reported it to his higher ups. One can certainly damn him for not going to the police, but I can understand why he did not. He worked with Sandusky for 30 years. I can see why he was incredulous at hearing this information. Just think about. If it was your buddy,someone you had known for decades,would you have believed it?
This is not to defend Paterno's actions, but to possibly explain it. Since I am not in his head I nor anyone else will ever know for certain why he refrained from going to the police.Eitherway, this situation is a sordid affair that has and will destroy lives.
November 9th, 2011 at 10:05 AM ^
Did you read the GJ indictment? If you did, you know that there were more witnesses to these acts that just McQueary, and you also know that Sandusky admitted acts back in 1998, adding, "I wish I were dead." Not sure why I need to wait until the judicial process runs its course to have an opinion, but thanks for the suggestion.
November 9th, 2011 at 10:28 AM ^
Why are we just hearing about this stuff 12-13 years on?And why was nothing done back in 98' when he admitted to the crimes? The grand jury report raises many questions about not just Penn State, but the police. Why wasn't this guy arrested in 98'?
We also still do not have physical evidence and witnesses are often unreliable. A good defense attorney can take this circumstancial case and weaken it enough before a jury where Sandusky's guilt will very much be reasonably doubted.
If Casey Anthony and Emmett Till's killers can be found innocent then so can Jerry Sandusky. A case built upon circumstancial evidence is never a sure thing.
November 9th, 2011 at 10:33 AM ^
They weren't found "innocent" and that is not merely semantics.
November 9th, 2011 at 10:50 AM ^
If someone is not guilty what are but innocent before the eyes of the law? If someone is not guilty of a crime then they are innocent of it. Our justice system gives us only two options to describe a persons culpability in a crime.Guilty or not guilty. Most assume the latter to mean innocent. What is you interpretation?
November 9th, 2011 at 10:57 AM ^
Are you serious? It means that the case was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt (in criminal trials).
It absolutely does not mean innocent. The system is built to err on the side of aquitting the guilty rather than convicting the innocent.
Failure to convict means the burden of proof (which is very high) was not met. It does not mean the person is innocent.
Was OJ innocent after aquittal?
November 9th, 2011 at 11:12 AM ^
If he is not guilty then it stands to reason that he is innocent of the crime before the eyes of the law, not that he is innocent in fact.
You missed my phrase "Before the eyes of the law". I did not say what people BELIEVE. That is all that it is since no one was at these alleged events and we cannot say with 100 percent certainty that they occurred.Niether me or you were there when OJ allegedly slaughtered Nicole and Ron so we cannot say for certain that is what happened.
Do I believe that they did? Do I believe Sanduskty molested those kids? Yeah, but it is a belief on what has been presented to me. The history of the humanity suggests that one should always maintain a level of scepticism no matter how sound the evidence is. Artful manipulation of facts is something every lawyer is taught and we ought to remember that.
November 9th, 2011 at 11:20 AM ^
"If Casey Anthony and Emmett Till's killers can be found innocent then so can Jerry Sandusky."
You didn't say "in the eyes of the law".
November 9th, 2011 at 10:58 AM ^
Of 9 year old rapes?
CSI has hurt people's ability to think.
November 9th, 2011 at 11:01 AM ^
It is not like anyone has ever lied to get someone arrested or convicted.
Oh, wait.
November 9th, 2011 at 11:16 AM ^
the guy had everything to lose. And he's not the only one. you need to read the gj report before you talk any more.
November 9th, 2011 at 11:00 AM ^
circumstancial, there is at least one eye witness, and notwithstanding your bizarre questioning of his credibility, he appears to be rock solid........nothing to gain, check, everything to lose, check, told multiple other people immediately after it happened, check, oh not to mention the mothers, victims, janitors, etc that will testify.
November 9th, 2011 at 11:19 AM ^
One always should look critically at issues of legality. Raising questions is not bizarre. I find it odd that you--a supposedly college educated person--would think questioning is bizarre.
The fact is that the witness in question saw the alleged act and did nothing to stop it nor report it to the proper authorities. That is something that will surely come up in the trial. It is something a lawyer will use to attack his credibility.
How do you know he is "rock solid"? Do you know McQueary personally? Do you know his history? If not, how can you claim that he is "rock solid"?
In fact, you acknowledge that you do not know enough about McQueary when you use the qualifier "appears".
I believe Sandusky to be guilty, the mountain of evidence from eyewitnesses and Sandusy's words tell me that he is. But that does not mean that this case is without holes. It is.
November 9th, 2011 at 10:54 AM ^
that this was a shameful post but really its just an uneducated one. Read the grand jury report. Educate yourself before you speak on such a topic. And even without reading the report, to say McQuery has credibility issues is bizarre, that incident was the last thing he ever wanted to see or have to tell anyone about, I'm sure he feared for his job (not that that excuses his failure to tell police), why in the world would McQuery make this up?
November 9th, 2011 at 11:30 AM ^
I'll simply say that you exhibit a woeful lack of critical thinking ability.
I agree that it highly unlikely that he would make it up, but the possibility does exist.Why would he? I don't know, but we know nothing about Mike McQueary as a person.
The grand jury report is based on the evidence presented by law enforcement. It is not a trial. To treat it as the final word on the subject is bit absurd. The facts have not been scrutinized.
November 9th, 2011 at 1:40 PM ^
to condemn a man who has been indicted for sexually abusing 8 kids pursuant to testimony of several victims, at least one 3rd party eye witness, mothers, janitors who confirmed the immediate comments of another eyewitness, etc. I feel terrible.
Yes is it POSSIBLE he didn't do anything wrong, sure, anything is possible. Does it seem reasonable at this point, clearly not.
November 9th, 2011 at 10:49 AM ^
Good article from Wojo regarding re: Penn State scandel
Scandel time-line link from Sporting News:
Extract: "Early 2009—An investigation by the Pennsylvania attorney general begins when a Clinton County, Pa. teen boy tells authorities that Sandusky has inappropriately touched him several times over a four-year period."
I would also like to see an investigation time-line. Not likely. Did it really have to take almost 3 years to bring charges? Wierd how it marries up with 409. Does moving paper and doing interviews really take that long?
I thought with age would come wisdom and with the abuse in 1998 and 2002 could someone in leadership not see the bigger picture. Especially with the relationship of the accued to the Second Mile Program which should give anyone the creeps. Why would you not think this is not a huge, huge problem that would only get worse.
November 9th, 2011 at 11:06 AM ^
I'm sure some of the students point of view is conflicted by their age to some degree and their life experience. For example, they are not parents, or they were never abused. They have the same tunnel vision that PSU leadership had. At at some point later on in their life they will look back at this sad event with a whole different perspective.
November 9th, 2011 at 12:01 PM ^
so these kids are shortsighted and inexperienced for rallying to support their classmates? I love this website but the high horses some of you people ride on are ridiculous.
November 9th, 2011 at 12:04 PM ^
the "support paterno" stuff is cringe inducing. I retract and apologize.