Your MBB Wine Cellar Team
I thought this would be fun for a Monday morning... In Bill Simmons's "The Book of Basketball" he spends what was probably my favorite chapter on "The Wine Cellar" team. The premise is "If aliens come to earth with a time machine and demand to play basketball for the sake of the world, who do you pick?" The time machine is because you don't just pick Michael Jordan - you have to decide which vintage (like wine) of Mike you pick (Simmons took 1992 MJ over 96 MJ). The game is taking place today - meaning 2014 NCAA rules like the 3 point line length are in play.
With that theory in place, who makes your Wine Cellar Team? Does 2013 Trey Burke start over 1992 Jalen Rose? Does Tournament McGary get one of your 12 roster spots? Does Cazzie's game translate with a shot clock, 3 pointer, and 7 footers? 91 or 92 CWebb? Simmons's team was quite versitile, able to go big or small, run a press, have a lockdown 5 for defense, and able to score lots of ways.
Build your starting 5 (or full roster of 12) and defend your picks/years.
In their primes:
Trey Burke
Chris Webber
Nik Stauskas
Jalen Rose
Glen Rice
Cabernet Sauvignon
Merlot
Cabernet Franc
Pinot Noir
Grenache
Chardonnay
Shiraz
Riesling
Gewurztraminer
Sauvignon Blanc
Zinfandel
Moscato
/s
I see you replied to me in order to be at the top. That's quite clever. I didn't neg you BTW.
for not negging me.
My original plan was in reply to you in saying my lineup could "take" your lineup...but I figured that would get negged. Guess I get negged either way despite the /s.
Le sigh.
You're missing out...
Thought it was more of a brandy?
I've heard of it, but not seen it in stores in the wine section. I'll have to hunt for it and give it a shot!
its more of of whiskey, yeah...made from the sediment at the bottom of wine barrels.
I've run out of Opus One!
This is the worst suggestion, by far. Screams, "I'm going to name the biggest names of Michigan basketball since the 1989 Championship and stop there".
Yeah, Gary Grant. With Roy Tarpley, Richard Relford, Butch Wade... Steve Stoyko!
Bill Frieder, worst tourney coach EVER!
Trey Burke
Jalen Rose
Zack Novak
Nik Stauskas
Cazzie Russell
Jordan Morgan
Mitch McGary
Rudy Tomjanovich
Glenn Rice
Rumeal Robinson
Terry Mills
Sean Higgins
Dylon Dylon Dylon and Dylon
You too close, mon!
You too close, mon!
PG: Gary Grant (vintage 1987)
SG: Cazzie Russell (vintage 1966)
Center: Phil Hubbard (vintage 1977)
SF: Glenn Rice (vintage 1989)
PF: Chris Webber (vintage 1993)
I think these "wines" would pair nicely with a NCAA Championship ring
This is the best one I've read down the thread, easily, so far (posted mine below). Who's your bench?
Thank you. Here's my bench
PG: Ricky Green (1976)
SG: Jalen Rose (1994)
Center: Bill Buntin (1964)
PF: Rudy Tomjanovich (1970)
SF: Campy Russell (1974)
My last two slots would be filled with Loy Vaught 1989 (willing to the dirty work and an amazing 20-10 guy (Kevin Love before Kevin Love) and then I'm torn between Mike McGee (1981) or Roy Tarpley (1986). Prolly would go with Roy as my squad definitely has enough firepower to score at will but might need a physical presence down low on defense.
I won't go through the whole lineup, but from my memory, the team would need:
92 CWebb
92 Rose
93 Howard
13 Burke
89 Rice
00 Blanchard
65 Russell (30.8 ppg!)
99 Crawford (he looked like a stud)
Any Petway year, just because he could jump out of the gym and really do nothing else.
Wow, Lavell, huh? I think it's unfortunately easy to forget about Lavell, mostly because those 4 years were a rough stretch for the Wolverines in general. Extremely highly coveted recruit (who was a obvious Michigan lock from the get go), lead scorer and rebounder on the team every year he was here ( I think), and an overall upstanding gentleman and scholar. There's no doubt I like him as a person and don't think there has been a more intelligent player (who also contributed) on the team since, including J-Mo. He wouldn't crack my all time two deep rotation, but having him on the all time team as a reserve for leadership purposes makes a lot of sense.
PG - SO Trey Burke
SG - 89 Glenn Rice
SF - 66 Cazzie
PF - SO Chris Webber
C - JR Juwan Howard
That leave a bench with Stauskas, Jalen, Rumeal, Terry Mills, and Tractor Traylor
All good choices so far. I would throw '97 Robert Traylor in there. He averaged 16.2 points, 10.2 rebounds, with a steal and block per game as well. He also did that thing with the backboard and is an intimidating presence.
I know that era underachieved (Traylor, Taylor, Bullock, Conlan, Jerod Ward, Maaaaaceo, etc...) and had a hand in the Ed Martin bs, but Traylor was excellent in 97.
Are we the monstars or is the other team the monstars? Pick one and stick with it!
...and yes, I remember Space Jam.
Most of the ones I've seen are pretty good. But Sean Higgins, Rumeal Robinson, Jamal Crawford, and Zack Novak can't appear on this list in any way. They were very, very good players but if you're picking 5 guys they're far down the list. You're really picking from the best of the best of all time and I"m sure we're missing some old guys. Grant, Burke, Cazzie, Rice, Webber, and a short list of others are where you start.
1 - 2013 Burke
2 - 2014 Stauskas
3 - 1989 Tourney Rice
4 - 1993 Webber
5 - 2013 Tourney McGary
Coach - Beilein
This lineup features two deadly shooters not including Burke, great passing from at least four spots, and above average ball handling across the board.
On paper this stuff looks good, but the reality of the situation is you'll need role players to win games. Everyone you mentioned on that list wants to score. McGary is probably your best example of being a "pass first" guy. You'd have issues with that lineup. Bad ones.
I actually think that the chemistry with that lineup may be pretty good. Burke, Stauskas, and McGary are all unselfish players. Webber is known as being a great passer and I don't see passing and selfishness from a big man. Maybe McGary and Webber cancel out. I'd replace McGary with Howard then. Glen Rice may be the wild card here.
My point was, not every guy can shoot the ball every time down the court. Rice is the all time "alpha dog" for his run in 1988-1989. You'd need 2 scorers to accompany him in the starting lineup, no more. Then you'd need two or three that could come off the bench and add bench scoring.
Even if you sign off on McGary as the energy / rebound / defense guy - who is the "score first" player is essentially marginalized? Burke? Stauskas? Webber?
Dugan Fife? He's the Rodney Dangerfield of MBB, no respect..... /s
Benchwarmers/cheerleaders. They are important for team morale. Andrew Dakich '13-'14.
G: '13 Trey Burke
G: '66 Cazzie Russell
W: '14 Nik Stauskas
F: '93 Chris Webber
F: '94 Juwan Howard
Webber actually shot over 1PPP on 80 3PAs that year (made 27, or 33.8%) so I would get Beilein as my coach and utilize Webber as a stretch 4.
For depth I would take Jalen Rose, Tim Hardaway Jr, Glen Rice, Mitch McGary (use the time machine to grab him in peak health and conditioning, of course) and senior captain Jordan Morgan.
PG- SO Burke
SG- 66 Cazzie
SF- 89 Rice
PF- SO Webber
C- So Phil Hubbard
BENCH: Sr Mike McGee, Jr Howard, So Jalen Rose, So Stauskus, '03 Blanchard
Nobody wants Rumeal.
I think it has to be Beilein, but what about Orr? Fisher?
Finally, a little love for Rickey Green.
Would 2013 be better if 2014 Stauskas replaced 2013 Stauskas coupled with 2012 Burke replacing 2013 Burke?
That's a tough one. I would lean towards yes, but what do I know?
Trey Burke, Glen Rice, Chris Webber. You start with the all-americans who led teams to final fours. I don't know that anyone can make a convincing argument otherwise.
The pieces around that trio gets a little more interesting. Is John Beilein the coach? (I think so.) If yes, you prioritize guard-play: passing, shooting, and versatility. I'd love to put Loy Vaught or Juwan Howard in the starting lineup to maximize talent, but they're pure 5-men under JB and Webber has that covered. You also need defense, assuming you're facing the hypothetical equivalents at UNC, Kansas, MSU, etc.
The next most talented guy is Jalen. Although not an efficient player, not a good defender, and not a great shooter, his versatility was unmatched and talent level too high to omit. He could rebound, handle the ball, score in traffic. With Trey handling the ball, Jalen could focus on cutting to the rim and being a glue guy. Chemistry with Chris can't be understated. Under JB's guidance he'd be a killer. With him at the 3 and Rice at the 4, Michigan would have very nice length on the wings.
The final starter is trickiest of all. This has to be a guard or wing player under Beilein. Shooting would be nice but you already have Trey and Glen and Webber's gravitational pull opening up the perimeter. The shots will be there. Defense is probably the biggest factor missing from the group above. So -- who can hit wide open 3's and make the opposition's elite guards life difficult? Stu Douglass, but his talent is limited. Nik Stauskas can shoot but he's woeful on D. GR3, Ray Jackson, and Jimmy King could lock down, but didn't shoot quite well enough to keep this offense running on full steam. Dion Harris is very underrated and fits the bill but... not quite. There's a better option.
My pick: Tim Hardaway Jr. The perfect complementary off-guard for a star-studded Beilein team. Can shoot and by his last year was a very very good defender. Also rebounds well and can throw down in transition. Clearly he's not the 5th best player in Michigan basketball history, but we're making a team here, not entering a one-on-one tournment.
Starters:
T. Burke
T. Hardaway Jr.
J. Rose
G. Rice
C. Webber
Bench Rotation:
G. Grant: floor leader, defender
J. Howard: classic big man to rebound and defend, nice mid-range game, always played his role.
N. Stauskas: instant offense off the bench. pretty good as 'just a shooter' for this squad.
T. Mills: I'm sure Beilien could use a shooting big man off the bench. Long NBA career because the skillset was there.
Fearless Towel-Wavers:
J. Morgan - can come in and bang when foul trouble strikes
R. Pelinka - smart and can shoot, if you need a last second 3...
E. Riley - you never know when you're going to run into Shaq in the imaginary dream NCAA tourney
Z. Novak - no explanation needed here
Apologies:
L. Vought: with any other coach, he's an easy yes. arguably more deserving than Howard
GR3: probably the hardest guy to cut just because no one else brings his defensive and transition athleticism
J.Crawford, M. Harris: can score like crazy, but this team just doesn't need it
D. Morris: elite passing and size hard to turn away for the bench
E. Udoh: shot-blocking and shooting would be awesome for JB
McGary: probably deserves a towel waving spot since availability doesn't matter, but I want guys who demonstrated team-spirit and leadership above all else. Mike Griffin was a tougher omission here, for selflessness.
old-school greats: most people on this board (including me) can't weigh in on Russell, Hubbard, Tarpley, Tomjanovich, etc. with any sort of informed wisdom. Plus, basketball was a different game back then...
No apologies:
Bullock, Taylor, Traylor -- great talents but too selfish for JB.
Rumeal Robinson -- off court issues to large to ignore
Jerod Ward: would have been so so good under JB, but just never played well enough in a Michigan uniform.
Zack Irvin: may yet surprass Stauskas and Hardaway, but hasn't done it yet...
1) You didn't include years.
2) You didn't include McGary and Dakich as Fearless Towel Waivers.
I think there is a strong argument to be made that basketball is not all about scoring. Look at what Pop has been able to do in San Antonio all those years. Look at what Miami has done with Lebron, Wade, Bosh, and a bunch of tinker toys.
It's noble to include Burke as a "must have" starter, but I think he's a bench player, at best. You DO have to include Glen Rice and Webber, IMO. I think Cazzie is another. So, at best, Burke is starting and is your fourth option for scoring? Why not go with one of the top all-time assist leaders (Morris, Grant) and have Burke come off the bench?
I wouldn't say anything, but you clearly put a lot of time into this and have some decent methodologies.
I think there is a strong argument to be made that basketball is not all about scoring.This is why I have Gary Grant on my team above. He was very good offensively but did not play the NCAA tournament well. However, his defense was always excellent, and was one of the best defensive guards to play the college game. Having a shut-down guard, particularly to stop dribble penetration, is always a real good thing to have. This past year's team could have really used one.
You guys are right that Trey isn't a slam dunk selection over him. I just think Trey is a better game-manager and floor spacer, but the defensive argument for Grant probably has merit.
The scoring argument isn't a good one, because Grant scored more than Trey did at the college level and it's not like he lacked for people to pass to.