njvictor

June 20th, 2020 at 3:00 PM ^

I'd get behind this, but I also don't want that city to have the privilege having such an awesome city name. They don't deserve it

nerv

June 20th, 2020 at 3:32 PM ^

This is disrespectful to Guy Fieri. Flavortown is a wonderful place and Ill have nothing to do with calling a toilet bowl something so tasty.

Bo Harbaugh

June 20th, 2020 at 4:14 PM ^

Curious...

Why so much Christopher Columbus outrage but not much towards Jefferson, Washington, or other founding fathers that owned slaves?  All explorers/colonialists engaged in wiping out native populations through violence and disease, as well as propagating slavery - but Columbus was over 500 years ago while the founding fathers were 250 years ago. It would seem the more immediate/relevant target would be those of more recent history.

One could argue that Columbus was more a product of his time and the founding fathers were more cynically and self-servingly hypocritical in simultaneously writing about inalienable rights and owning slaves.

 

GoBlueTal

June 20th, 2020 at 4:33 PM ^

That's just it, it isn't honest.  In any way.  

First, these men are being judged not only with 20/20 hindsight, and by more extreme standards than those to which we would hold ourselves (standards of near omniscience).

Second, there's not a whiff of respect for the good that they did.  Not an ounce.  And that's hypocritical.  If one believes themselves worthy to stand judge on history, it's not enough to weigh in only on the bad, one must weigh the whole person.  

Last, there's no discussion, it's just judgement and execution, fuck rationalism.  

I want us to be honest about history, I have not one moments interest in padding or softening history, but it is disingenuous to look around at the positives these figures brought to the world and deny it's existence.   

What's happening here is a lie built upon modern narcissism, and if they want to look harshly upon the past, they should consider the way future historians will look upon their childish dishonesty.  We're supposed to be getting MORE mature as a species, not less.  

Bo Harbaugh

June 20th, 2020 at 5:07 PM ^

My point was simply that the founding fathers are 250 years closer to our modern day, and wrote the very documents upon which our nation was founded and governed.  

I agree it's very harsh to judge past historical figures based on today's standards...hell, I look at pictures of the clothes I was wearing 15 years ago and cringe.

I'm just curious as to why someone further removed from our current day has become such a target.

IMO

Individuals involved in institutionalizing Jim Crow - Fuck em, that's pretty recent and essentially slavery 2.0

The confederacy and people hanging on to the flag - Fuck em - they lost, it was treason, deal with it.  Germany isn't flying swastika flags, you don't get to fly your hate symbol and call it heritage.

Founding fathers - A bit more complicated - did some great shit, did some fucked up shit, was 250 years ago.

Columbus - This was 500 + years ago.  People were cutting each others heads off in Europe and plagues were wiping out 30% of the population. Seems he was a man of a brutal era acting brutally.

Hence, my curiosity.

sharklover

June 20th, 2020 at 10:11 PM ^

That picture is a perfect illustration of my point. That guy was a head football coach in the Mountain West and the SEC and a receivers coach at Michigan in 2018. But he will forever be known as a shark rapist. If McElwain is to be forever saddled with this shameful incident, shouldn't our memorializations of Columbus be tempered with the knowledge that the dude directed the brutal enslavement and murder of an entire culture? 

sharklover

June 20th, 2020 at 11:49 PM ^

I was just joking about McElwain. I know it's not him (but has it been definitely proven?). That picture and the absurd controversy that it sparked was the original inspiration for the name I use on this profile, after all. When I first created my profile, it was sharkfucker. But I decided it would be best to tone down the vulgarity.

I think it is totally appropriate to define people by their worst deeds if their worst deeds include killing and enslaving people.

GoBlueTal

June 23rd, 2020 at 11:38 AM ^

"I think it is totally appropriate to define people by their worst deeds if their worst deeds include killing and enslaving people."

So if it's ok to define people by one factor based on your decision of what's right and wrong ...  

God if I need to expound on that, give back your degree.  Even the fact that I might need to expound on that ...

NO.  JUST FUCKING NO.  Jeebus what the hell is wrong with you!??!  

This, right here, this is from whence evil comes.  Stop believing evil is ok.