OT: Detroit man walks 21 miles to and from work every day
Great pick-me-up on this snowy, blustery Midwestern Monday
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:33 PM ^
Logically the rates should be higher in Detroit than outside, but I wonder if the rates have gone down slightly due to crime rates going down? Auto thefts have gone way down (in both total and rate)from where they were 10-15 years ago. But from my experience with insurance agencies of any kind, I doubt there's been a reduction in the cost.
February 2nd, 2015 at 5:46 PM ^
that is somewhat of an umbrella issue, and that is the return on the investment that the insurance companies are receiving with your/our/their $. so while they receive the premiums they put them to work in the market and if the market tanks, rates go up and vice versa (or at least theoretically). so while loss pay-outs are an important determinant regarding zip codes and red-lining, the investment returns make a difference to the overall market.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:23 PM ^
The amount people pay in Detroit for insurance is ridiculous. I used to work downtown, and a few of my coworkers lived within the city. One guy told me he had bare minimum(PLPD) insurance on his 6 year old car and his annual premium was $1800. I was commuting from Ann Arbor, and had just purchased a BMW where my premium for full comprehensive coverage was $2000 annually.
Now I'm sure it will not always be this way, but that just highlights how bad things are in a nutshell.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:12 PM ^
I definitely won't comment about what an appropriate wage is or not (too political), but I'm curious how he spends his money. Not judging him in anyway. He's a testament to hard work and tenacity.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:18 PM ^
You could pay for a small house from the costs of car insurance in Detroit.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:22 PM ^
Theoretically, he could just give the insurance man the address of his Aunt/Uncle/Cousin/Friend/etc in Ann Arbor of Ypsi and say he lives there. Obviously, that would be unethical, but people do it ALL the time. Believe me.
Not uncommon for a the MONTHLY premium on a new SUV in Detroit to be $500.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:35 PM ^
Asking someone, essentially, to commit insurance fraud is a temporary end-around (provided he has relatives or anyone else who would put their necks out for him to do it), but doesn't address the real problem. Yes, everyone does it. But that isn't a solution.
February 3rd, 2015 at 12:41 AM ^
It's not fraud if the relative owns the car and lets him lease or borrow it.
February 3rd, 2015 at 8:26 AM ^
It still is, because they always word the question, "where is the car usually parked overnight?" or some variation of that.
February 2nd, 2015 at 2:35 PM ^
Until a claim is called in and the insurance company denies your claim from fraud. I have seen it happen more than one time.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:18 PM ^
What he makes is enough to buy a shitty car. It's not enough to insure it. If we're talking about "what should we do to fix this situation" then there's no possible way not to include making insurance affordable, and asking ourselves why Michigan has the most ridiculously expensive auto insurance in the whole country. Why does the average premium in Michigan cost $2,551 and the average premium in Ohio, right next door, cost $926? And it's just even worse in Detroit where people can least afford it.
I'd answer the questions myself, but then I think I'd be too far down the forbidden political road. I'll leave them as rhetorical for now.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:21 PM ^
When I was still in the area, I knew a lot of people who lived in the city who had good jobs, had nice homes, etc., but the only way they could make it work was to insure their cars at an address outside the city limits, usually at a parent or grandparent's house. Everybody did it. And these were adults in their 30s and 40s. The rates are positively absurd, and based solely on ZIP code.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:27 PM ^
address right on woodward, and had I not kept my parents' address in ann arbor on my drivers license my rate would have gone up ~$150 a month.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:28 PM ^
Not entirely based solely on ZIP code. Deciding to throw political caution partway to the wind here, Michigan has bizarrely high rates largely because of the lack of a cap on lifetime medical benefits from car accidents. No other states have a system of unlimited lifetime personal injury protection.
Get rid of guaranteed lifetime medical benefits on the backs of the insurance companies and they won't charge so much for auto insurance. Almost nobody actually needs them, but everyone has to suck it up and pay for them.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:32 PM ^
is an ad from the same company along the lines of "injured in a car crash? call us to get PAID IN FULLLLLLLL"
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:47 PM ^
This is my experience with insurance: the funnier the comercials, the worse the rates and coverage, at least when it come to home owners' insurance.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:49 PM ^
The lifetime medical benefits for accidents regardless of who's at fault adds a shit ton to all of our auto insurance rates here in Michigan. My wife works for a big local insurance company and she's told me some stories of how much money they have had to spend on some accident victims with permanent injuries. Example: expensive alterations to houses and adding medical equipment so people can live at home. And this law can result in more cases of fraud from people faking injuries among other things. If certain geographic areas show statistically to have a lot more cases of fraud, the insurance companies are going to jack up their rates for those areas accordingly. Ultimately, the law and the fraud that it can encourage costs everyone who lives here in Michigan.
February 2nd, 2015 at 4:17 PM ^
aka Medical Claims for a major insurance company. The common person has no idea to the amount of fraud that goes on in Detroit surrounding this coverage. And it's not all from the perople insuring the policy, a lot of it has to do with the providers and attorneys as well.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:33 PM ^
some of the people not getting browbeaten out of this discussion. Because a practice like that goes way beyond politics to a level that most people understand is not right. The crazed way that people are getting hit for their water bills in Detroit is another case in point. And it's helpful sometimes to understand--again at a level that transcends politics and comes down to common decency--that a lot of good people in Detroit face incredible hardships in order to just get by. And that just shouting that they should get their act together, decade after decade, somehow hasn't solved the problem.
I work in the food movement in the south, and I have really changed my thinking about some of these things--we do need to get beyond knee-jerk to common sense at some point on both sides of our narrow little aisle. The amount of time and hard work that a lot of poor people have to put in just to maintain really throws cold water on the idea that only if they worked harder. . .
Climbing down from soap box, hoping that soap box is seen to contain something more than the usual soap/
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:42 PM ^
completely off topic of what you said, but in the same spirit, I really appreciate when athletes like Tom Brady say "I am a lucky guy."
Many people's first reaciton to that is, "he's just being pc, he makes his own luck by working had and preparing better than everyone else."
my thought is that, in a narrow sense, obviously he made his own luck in the nfl by working hard and being good.
but in a broader sense, he's working hard doing what he loves every day. many people in the world work just as hard if not even harder, but they don't get anywhere close to the same rewards.
February 2nd, 2015 at 2:00 PM ^
works harder than Tom Brady and most athletes. Totally agree they deserve a better lot in life. But self respect and integrity are earned, in part, by working to honorably provide for oneself and family, even at a low standard.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:45 PM ^
A big solution in this case is obviously reducing crime in the city - but of course, it's poverty that pushes many into crime. I think really, really good, safe public transportation, that let everyone get to work, school, medical helpt, etc, would go a long way.
Monroe County has the LET, and it works very well. I have never used it, but I always vote for it. It's like 1/8th MIL, and the senior population relies on it.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:46 PM ^
Well, I'm making the same point above, but: truth is, there's got to be some motivation behind so-called redlining. It's not arbitrary, because arbitrariness costs companies money, and companies aren't in the business of capriciously costing themselves money. If the insurance companies could make money by offering the same rates regardless of ZIP code, they'd do it. Detroit is obviously an untapped market for insurance. Hundreds of thousands of people without it. If just 10,000 people bought a $1,000 car insurance policy, that's $10 million of new revenue per year. Insurance companies would leap at the chance, and the fact that they haven't is proof that it would cost them more than $10 million in payouts.
I know that "get off your ass" platitudes haven't solved any problems, but neither has blaming companies for causing them. Companies just want to make money, that's all they want to do. If they could make money by selling affordable insurance in Detroit, you bet your ass they would. Asking them to just be nice and lose money in the city doesn't work.
February 2nd, 2015 at 3:58 PM ^
always make the correct decision based on all the information they have.
Point in case: you don't think this company could see a net positive by paying this man a little more so that he doesn't come to work on 2 hours of sleep after having walked 10 miles? If this person is being productive enough to not merit firing on these conditions, imagine his productivity if he had a normal commute!
There are also plenty of studies showing that lack of vacation hours leads to decreased productivity, decreased profits, increased price of health care, etc. etc.
Companies are run by people who have a set outlook on the world, and lose money because of those outlooks sometimes.
February 2nd, 2015 at 4:17 PM ^
No, companies don't always make the correct decision, but we're talking about the exact same decision being made by every company in the region, based on more or less the exact same information. Are they all making the wrong decision (in terms of profitability)? Occam says probably not.
February 3rd, 2015 at 10:14 AM ^
do you let market logic dictate everything, even if it ruins lives?
But--just to add a little substance to your theory--my wife edited insurance manuals for a while in San Francisco. They routinely schooled agents to resist and delay large claims.
It's not only not just a matter of market logic, but serious malfeasance, too. This is why--if you're gonna have laws and stuff at all. . .
February 2nd, 2015 at 5:31 PM ^
"If just 10,000 people bought a $1,000 car insurance policy, that's $10 million of new revenue per year."
That may be true, but what about the other hundreds of thousands who pay 2-3 times that for insurance? I would imagine that their insurance would have to drop to approximately $1000 as well, resulting in a huge loss of profit. Now, I am sure there would be more than 10,000 in new policies, as I'm sure you'd point out. But it's a bit more complex than what you are suggesting.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:47 PM ^
which is a very unique auto insurance set up. it was passed in the '70's under the guise of 'no more fender-bender litigation and law suits'. unless there is serious bodily injury your insurance company pays for you/your car, the other guy deals with his own insurance company. there are some benefits to it, but the bottom line is that there is signif added cost comparted to most other states and their insurance.
February 2nd, 2015 at 2:10 PM ^
My understanding is that Michigan has such high premiums because it is supposed to cover PIP (personal injury) of involved parties, and to do so over the lifetime of the recipient. Here in NYC, I think the coverage is only up to $50k, for comparison. I don't think there is even a requirement in Ohio. So some of the stats are misleading because you are talking about different coverages, essentially; some are just for the car, others are for the car and the riders. Paying for humans is quite a bit more expensive than the car itself, but it also helps to limit some health insurance costs/premiums that would absolutely go up in the state if that wasn't the case.
I agree insurance premiums should be more mangeable for lower-income people, but it also means you either have to convince insurance companies to shoot for lower profits (which is certainly an option but one that opens up questions that are going to get political) or ask those who can afford more to pay a bit more each month, which again, no PoLo.
February 2nd, 2015 at 8:00 PM ^
i really wonder what this guy spends his money on. he lives in a house with his girlfriend that she inherited, so no rent.
he could also buy a bike or moped. it just sounds like a silly personal decision.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:05 PM ^
Why would someone live in a place where you have to walk 21 miles for an almost minimum wage job? No wonder Detroit's economy has been in the crapper for so long.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:11 PM ^
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February 2nd, 2015 at 1:20 PM ^
I was just pointing out that no one with a choice, would actually want to move there. I've read a lot about the M-1 Rail and all the redevelopment Gilbert has been doing on Woodward, but that doesn't really help the average person living in the city. Until they fix the school system and create some real jobs, I doubt we see much change.
February 2nd, 2015 at 2:00 PM ^
I don't get the idea that redeveloping portions of the city doesn't help "the neighborhoods." It absolutely, positively helps everyone living in the city. The city needs tax revenue. It must have tax revenue or it dies. Tax revenue pays for cops and firefighters and streetlights and funds to tear down crack houses. Adding wealth to the city adds tax revenue. The city collects from every worker that works in the city and from every resident, renter or owner, and from everyone who owns property in the city. If that property value goes up, as it's been doing in Midtown, the city benefits. If rent goes up, the city benefits from increased income tax collection. If someone sells a parcel of land for four times what they bought it for, the city benefits from higher property tax assessments. And that extra money gets spread around the neighborhoods.
All that redevelopment is paying for things the neighborhoods need. It's not easy and it's not instant, but it's also not right to say it doesn't help. If downtown and Midtown start really, really flourishing, they're going to subsidize a lot of improvement all over the city.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:13 PM ^
Not everyone can front the money to move? I assume this man owns his house, and would not be able to sell it for nearly what he would need to find similar housing closer to his workplace, rental or otherwise.
Poverty doesn't always make sense.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:18 PM ^
You think through your comment then beg forgiveness should you believe in a higher power.
February 2nd, 2015 at 2:11 PM ^
In his case, he says he does so because he doesn't have to pay for housing (his GF inherited the house). There are jobs closer to him that pay as much, I'm sure, but he clearly likes his job in Rochester and doesn't seem able/willing to move closer for a variety of reasons.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:10 PM ^
The Maize and Blue.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:10 PM ^
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February 2nd, 2015 at 2:12 PM ^
It sounds like some do when it works out, but he also lives 23 miles away from work, while most people apparently live in other directions. I'm guessing this isn't some massive factory.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:12 PM ^
Libertine, I read this story and did find something inspiring. I'm sure someone will follow up and do something nice for this man. If there is a public fund I will contribute. Some people are just born into crappy situations and do the best with what they have, with what they know. Others have everything and piss their opportunities away. One can learn from both.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:16 PM ^
There's a gofundme that has already raised more than $50,000.
http://www.gofundme.com/l7girc
He's also been offered a new Chevy from a dealership.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:32 PM ^
But isnt the problem the fact that insuring a brand new SUV is too expensive? It's great that a dealership has offered him a new car, and it will make the commute unbelievably easy instead of walking, but now he will be taking on another huge financial burden that everyone on the board has been saying is impossible to pay for.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:40 PM ^
Yeah, makes little sense to give him a car unless you're also going to cover at least a portion of his insurance each month. And if I were him, I wouldn't accept it unless I could flip it for a good chunk of money.
Nice gesture, but not well thought out if all they're doing is giving him the car.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:52 PM ^
Dude now has enough for a car, $ for insurance, and some left over to buy some clothes, food and other stuff, he probably needs. Maybe enought to move out of that area, closer to work!
February 2nd, 2015 at 5:22 PM ^
The guy isn't poor. It's not like he's eating out of the garbage. He just can't afford a car based on the high Detroit car insurance rates.
$11 an hour is plenty of money to live comfortably otherwise in Detroit though.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:17 PM ^
Some people are just born into crappy situations and do the best with what they have, with what they know. Others have everything and piss their opportunities away. One can learn from both.
Well done.
February 2nd, 2015 at 1:16 PM ^
One of the saddest things I've read in a long time.
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February 2nd, 2015 at 1:20 PM ^
The man seems upbeat despite these hardships...sucks, but a true testimate to those with such character