Offensive Line: Best Five or Best Fit?
I know we have a lot of coaches around here, as well as laypeople who know a lot more about football than I do so I thought I'd see if people could way in on the ideal (if there is such a thing) offensive line construction philosophy.
It seems like Michigan is leaning more towards the "figure out who the best five players are and sort them out later" approach. I had always been told that great offensive lines are built through experience as a unit and that positional fit is essential. So perhaps there's a backup tackle that's better than a starting guard but because the guard is guard shaped he's in the starting unit. Which also gives the starters more time to gel.
What do y'all think? Is this a distinction without much of a difference? Is this a stupid question? Have at it!
August 25th, 2021 at 9:31 PM ^
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people asking questions. The end.
August 25th, 2021 at 9:38 PM ^
My father still enjoys telling people that while there are no stupid questions, stupid answers, on the other hand, seem to abound.
August 25th, 2021 at 9:41 PM ^
Well I am a dad and it’s a very dad thing to say.
August 25th, 2021 at 11:02 PM ^
There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
August 26th, 2021 at 7:02 AM ^
As a former teacher, I can confirm: there are definitely stupid questions.
August 26th, 2021 at 7:55 AM ^
The fact that your classic dad joke is being negged is a statement on society today. I downvote this societal need to complain about everything that’s sarcastically funny. Lighten the fuck up, people!
August 26th, 2021 at 8:06 AM ^
Yes.
I've seen fewer of these on MGoBlog lately:
August 25th, 2021 at 9:32 PM ^
If by best fit you mean they will be our most productive unit.....then I will take the best fit.
August 25th, 2021 at 10:26 PM ^
August 26th, 2021 at 6:09 AM ^
Agreed. If Vastardis is our 6th most talented OL, but clearly the best at playing center then I’d take the line with him in the middle.
August 26th, 2021 at 8:24 AM ^
Unfortunately I’ve seen enough of Vastardis that if he is the best center Michigan is in trouble.
I’d rather have growing pains with a younger guy because more than likely his improvement through year will be very noticeable
August 25th, 2021 at 9:35 PM ^
It's the D line I'm worried about. And I think that fit or fat would be I higher order goal with them. Just getting three, four truly capable guys to line up there remains the challenge, if I am reading correctly.
Signed, not one of the coaches or experts
August 25th, 2021 at 9:48 PM ^
I think they have 3 capable guys in Hinton, Smith, and Jeter. Behind them they have a boom and bust guy in Welschof, and backup quality players Speight and Whitley. Ideally there wouldn’t be much of a drop off in your second unit, but that doesn’t seem likely for Michigan.
August 25th, 2021 at 9:44 PM ^
Pretty sure Michigan is going best fit. If they were going best five, Zinter would be center and one of Barnhart or Jones would be in the line up.
August 25th, 2021 at 10:26 PM ^
I think the center position has a lot of moving parts. Can Zinter make the line calls? If so, would it be a permanent position change? If not, is the overall difference enough to play Stueber and Zinter out of a position until Crippen (or other center) is ready?
That being said as soon as the Crippen hype started I assumed they'd leave Zinter at RG. Hopefully it works out.
August 26th, 2021 at 8:26 AM ^
I'm sure Crippen is a nice player, but I would be stunned if he plays anything other than garbage time this year.
My thought is that they figured out Zinter wasn't going to be the starting center so they decided Zinter was primarily the starter at guard (still taking some snaps at center). Since there is almost no one else on the roster that is a center (was Rumler talk previously) that made Crippen effectively in the 2 deep and therefore garnering some discussion. If Vastardis is injured, I assume Zinter will play center.
That being said, we can probably pencil in Crippen at center next year.
August 26th, 2021 at 11:11 AM ^
Warriner clearly preferred Crippen as the next center in line. However, I wouldn't count out Anderson for next year, especially if Crippen at Guard and Anderson at Center next year is the best overall option. Much like we're talking about here.
Very young on the OL this year, but glad to see we have some quality options that will hopefully develop soon... maybe even some surprises this year.
August 26th, 2021 at 12:39 PM ^
Seems like the coaches really liked Vastardis at center last fall camp, but I've heard that once the season started he was never really at 100% (some kind of injury). I'm assuming he eventually was replaced--I literally bailed on the season halfway through the MSU game. Maybe we have not seen him at 100% yet. He supposedly is extremely smart which works at center no doubt.
August 25th, 2021 at 9:45 PM ^
All these murky position groups, yet only about nine days to go until we have concrete details...
August 25th, 2021 at 10:03 PM ^
I have to admit I've never understood this.
I've only coached at the middle school level and below, so take this with a giant grain of salt. But I've talked to alot of coaches who look at a kid and get starry eyed. 'Oh, with his size...' 'Oh, he has a tackle body... (at 14??)' Oh...
In the end, at each position you have to have the guy that can play there.
If you have some dude who looks like a Greek god, runs great 40's, and lights people up when he hits them... but somehow never seems to be in the right position or consistently block as well as the more earthbound competition... it doesn't matter. Go with the guy that can do the job well enough often enough to give you a shot. Otherwise you're like late career Mike Tyson looking for the knockout blow every time. 'Oh! That one play Johnny Tackle blew out his guy! Highlight reel!' ignoring the next 3 plays where he slipped; didn't get his hands on the guy properly, or was a little slow off the line.
August 26th, 2021 at 1:19 PM ^
Agreed. I know a guy -- not a Greek god -- the other one. Coach put three different teammates in to receive kickoffs and punts. Each of them had much better speed and better moves. However, none could find the handle with GPS. The guy won the job simply by being able to hold onto the damn ball when getting crushed. Later, the guy even learned how to gain a few yards after the catch.
August 25th, 2021 at 10:27 PM ^
What if one of the best five is 5'8, 180?
August 26th, 2021 at 12:19 AM ^
Put him in the slot.
August 25th, 2021 at 10:43 PM ^
I am friend with a OL guy and he said he rather see starting lineup of best fits as opposed to best 5 because not everyone are suited for certain positions like OT kicking inside to OG where things happen a lot quicker than at OT. The C are the ones who should understand defensive alignment and protection scheme. If that OL is versatile and can play outside/inside, that OL's skillset is uncommon.
August 25th, 2021 at 11:33 PM ^
I am caveman. Me him friend.
August 25th, 2021 at 11:09 PM ^
I say best five. Zinter made a massive jump because he played last year. Was pain but now he will end up being AA u watch.
I always wondered something. Can a guard make the line calls?
August 26th, 2021 at 12:25 AM ^
It's fit. The positions require different skills and body types. Tackles are generally taller, more athletic and leaner with bigger wingspans. They need better lateral movement. A 6'7" tackle is quite common but rare for a guard.
The guards and centers are more stout. They need better bend for leverage. Good inside hands are more important than for tackles.
August 26th, 2021 at 12:42 AM ^
I like the best 5 theory. Some players are capable of playing inside or out. Think Stueber at right tackle or guard. If a guy isn't effective at the position you move him to he drops out of the top 5.
August 26th, 2021 at 4:22 AM ^
Steuber is one of the main reasons I created this thread. I'm sure he is one of the five best linemen but I'm not sure he's one of the two best tackles. Perhaps it's a floor/ceiling trade off?
August 26th, 2021 at 8:51 AM ^
I think they view Stueber as a tackle so the real comparison is Jones/Barnhart and Zinter/Stueber "out of position" > Vastardis AND Zinter and Stueber in their natural positions. As I said above, I have been speculating that they would go with Vastardis so Zinter can remain at RG and Crippen can slide in next year.
August 26th, 2021 at 12:28 PM ^
Can't we have both? OSU seems to always get that so I want it, too.
That being said, I know OSU always gets what it wants in its best possible form and Michigan won't for the foreseeable future, so if I had to pick one, take the five with the best fit. Michigan has had plenty of OL talent come through here over the last decade and a half, but all too often they're never all on the same page together, and we've seen the results of that (looking at you, 2013-2014).
Offensive line is one of those positions where everyone has to fit together for it to really work. You can have five uber-talented individuals but if they don't mesh well together, then an opposing defensive line is just going to wreak havoc anyway. I'd rather have a line of nothing but 3* guys who fit together like a glove and are great as one collective unit, and all know where, what and when they need to do on any given play and can execute their jobs to perfection vs. having five great 5* individuals who don't know how to work and play together.