Michigan out of running for Cassius Winston
Per his Twitter, he's down to Pitt, Stanford, and MSU. Looks like he tried to push back his timeline a bit and was told we couldn't wait that long since we'd lose out on back-up options if he didn't end up at UM.
TeJon Lucas, come on down.
September 9th, 2015 at 10:27 AM ^
You understand there was a JB who developed Burke Stauskas Hardaway Robinson. All were lower level recruits.
September 9th, 2015 at 10:44 AM ^
Robinson wasn't lower level. Beilein offered and got a commit from him before his rankings blew up - guy was in the top 25 vicinity by the time the process was over.
September 9th, 2015 at 11:47 AM ^
September 9th, 2015 at 10:53 AM ^
Burke Stauskas and Mcgary were all top 100 recruits when they stepped on campus. Mcgary was at one point ranked in the top 5. Beilein didn't win with lower level recruits. He did a good job of identifying late bloomers (Burke, Robinson, Levert) but they all blew up in high school at a later point and stuck to their commitments.
September 9th, 2015 at 11:15 AM ^
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September 9th, 2015 at 9:24 AM ^
Something is turning these kids away. I just can't put my finger on it.
September 9th, 2015 at 9:52 AM ^
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September 9th, 2015 at 10:01 AM ^
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September 9th, 2015 at 11:12 AM ^
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September 9th, 2015 at 1:54 PM ^
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September 9th, 2015 at 9:32 AM ^
September 9th, 2015 at 9:34 AM ^
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September 9th, 2015 at 9:44 AM ^
That said, does there come a time when it becomes rational to question Beilein? In basketball, consistent recruiting - and the ability to reload year after year, since players increasingly leave early - is critical for sustained program success. Sure, you can have great seasons with well-coached, somewhat lower recruited kids (and the occasional 5*), but to remain consistently relevant, you must be able to recruit year in and year out. Over his tenure, this is the one area in which Beilein has struggles.
Not calling for his firing or anything like that, but clearly something needs to be done in this regard. Perhaps hiring an assistant who excels in recruiting?
September 9th, 2015 at 9:53 AM ^
by a long shot, too many guys leave early and flame out way too often. Even Trey has struggled and Nik has already been traded.
I like guys that stay in school at least 3 or 4 years and become mature men, players are so fickle anymore.
September 9th, 2015 at 9:57 AM ^
Except we have 2 young hotshot assistants who are both black (can only help). And Meyer has always been solid since his IU days...
It has to be a philosophy problem.
September 9th, 2015 at 10:05 AM ^
Thad Matta is white and recruits circles around UM.
Bacari is black and we've gotten Mitch, Teske and that under the radar guy I forgot - all white. So I don't see your point other than it is supposedly supposed to make them more relatable. Coack K is pretty white last I checked as is Izzo. As is Dane Fife (MSU assist). So Dwayne Stephens is more relatable than Jordan and Alexander apparently?
p.s. I though Jumpman would bring is all of the recruits.
September 9th, 2015 at 10:07 AM ^
I said "can only help." Obviously there are more important factors other than race...
Jumpman will help... just in a couple of years when we're actually wearing the damn jerseys...
September 9th, 2015 at 1:14 PM ^
Or maybe our assistants are not the hotshots you perceive them to be when it comes to recruiting.
September 9th, 2015 at 9:55 AM ^
I thought Meyer and Bacari were supposed to be strong recruiters... at least that's what people were saying when they were in the running for head coaching jobs.
September 9th, 2015 at 9:35 AM ^
September 9th, 2015 at 11:36 AM ^
I'm seeing this a lot and it doesn't make sense to me. Why are people acting like Winston was some program-changing recruit? Because he's ranked high? Our class will end up being 4 or 5 solid prospects that Beilein will develop into good college players. And we'll be fine. Beilein will still get a solid PG recruit, and our class will end up being pretty good. I like Aiken and Lucas a lot. Beilein doesn't need a class full of top 30 guys to win.
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September 9th, 2015 at 12:50 PM ^
September 9th, 2015 at 1:15 PM ^
Is something wrong? We've got two top 100 big men, Watson is due a ratings bump after a fantastic summer, and Lucas and Aiken are both decently ragarding and said to be on the rise in rankings as well. And besides the rankings, if Beilein turns Ibi Watson and Lucas or whatever PG commit he gets into better players than Battle and Winston, which his track record suggests is very possible, isn't that good?
September 9th, 2015 at 2:53 PM ^
September 9th, 2015 at 9:55 PM ^
Uh, what? Both big men are top 100 recruits, Watson is due a rankings bump after a big summer, and we just landed the 247 composite 57th overall player. What is "highly touted in the slightest" to you?
September 9th, 2015 at 1:15 PM ^
Why? Because we suck at it? Maybe you should direct your ire elsewhere.
September 9th, 2015 at 9:47 AM ^
September 9th, 2015 at 10:11 AM ^
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September 9th, 2015 at 10:20 AM ^
September 9th, 2015 at 10:30 AM ^
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September 9th, 2015 at 9:48 AM ^
come to michigan with all my heart and hate the guys that don't, it's as simple as that.
I think our program is in good hands and I trust Coach B!!!
September 9th, 2015 at 9:50 AM ^
This is fascinating. Beilein was recently voted the best offensive coach in the NCAA, has turned 3-stars to lottery picks, routinely sends kids to the NBA, and has taken his team to the final game more recently than Izzo. Why would kids not want to play for him? Too honest with them? Not enough flash? Do these kids want an NBA career like Lucas, Appling, Harris, or Burke, Hardaway, Stauskas? Simply amazing.
September 9th, 2015 at 9:56 AM ^
September 9th, 2015 at 10:05 AM ^
Still, Izzo has struggled developing players as of late (Harris, Appling, come to mind).
September 9th, 2015 at 10:12 AM ^
To be fair, Dawson signed with the Clippers and averaged 12.8 points, 10.3 rebounds, 1.8 steals, 1.3 blocks and an assist in the summer league. It's yet to be seen how his NBA career pans out.
September 9th, 2015 at 10:45 AM ^
dawson is a better fit for the nba. he is a better scorer in transition. nba is more of a transition game. he is also willing to do the dirty work like playing D and rebounding. it will be interesting to see if he can handle some of the nba's 4s.
September 9th, 2015 at 9:59 AM ^
Zbo, JRich and Draymond Green are more successful than any Beilein player has been.
September 9th, 2015 at 10:48 AM ^
I don't think that's a very strong selling point for Izzo, when you've basically been running the most successful program(and talented, though Izzo and MSU fans would have you believe he's pulling blood from a rock) in the Big 10 for nearly 20 yrs, yet you've basically got 3 players who've actually had real success in the NBA, with at least twice as many who were supposed to be NBA level talents who either flamed out or never even made it, and some who had to go to Europe to refine their offensive skills just to be considered marginal NBA players(Charlie Bell, Alan Anderson and Shannon Brown).
Winston's making a big mistake, IMO, he's skilled, but he's a marginal athlete at best, putting yourself in his position there's no contest which coach between Beilein and Izzo gives you a better shot at having an opportunity in the NBA. Beilein's players develop offensively at a much greater rate than Izzo's players do, and it's not even debateable looking at the past 5 or 6 yrs of evidence when they were at comparable places professionally in their careers(Beilein was at Richmond or some such school when Izzo had Zbo and JRich at MSU).
September 9th, 2015 at 1:33 PM ^
You realize the three Michigan guys you listed in that comparison have had extremely underwhelming NBA careers, right?
September 9th, 2015 at 9:59 AM ^
hate to bang this drum, but when we have a head coach that is the head of the Ethics Coalition, you're going to have a hard time in recruiting. No, I am not saying this applies to Winston or any recruit in particular, but I firmly believe this makes a large difference.
I know this is cherry picking, but look around at some of the big-time college basketball programs around the country and see what you find in the very recent past:
Kentucky - Coach Cal.....I'll say no more
UNC - Academic Scandal
Syracuse: Academic and Extra Benefits
UConn - Improper Recruting
September 9th, 2015 at 10:16 AM ^
September 9th, 2015 at 10:17 AM ^
I think there is some truth to that. I really don't think it has anything to do with Beilein's personality. Look at the recruits that clown at Indiana is able to pull in.
September 9th, 2015 at 10:40 AM ^
I think that's a big part of it. Honestly, as a Beilein-era Michigan basketball fan, I think the most rational move is to ignore recruiting entirely and be grateful that we have a program that wins a lot, is fun to watch, and is an outlier in that it does things the right way.
Plus, for Beilein's commitments, the correlation between the recruiting sites' star ratings and eventual contributions at UM has been so low - if it's even positive - that it's hard to know when to get excited. We've had major successes who stayed low-ranked throughout the process (Burke, LeVert, Albrecht, Dawkins). We've had guys who looked like reaches when Michigan offered/pursued and then their rankings climbed and they became really good players (Hardaway, Stauskas, Robinson). And we've had guys who were really highly ranked but haven't lived up to their hype (Brundridge and we'll see about Chatman).
That's not the usual argument that Beilein recruits tend to outperform their rankings (also true). It's that it's really hard to predict how a Beilein recruit will turn out.
September 9th, 2015 at 11:06 AM ^
Burke was ranked 84th in the country when he stepped on campus according to espn. Our lineup during the national championship run was all top 100 guys. Burke was 84th, Robinson was 18th, Mcgary was 27th, Stauskas was 76th, Hardaway was 93rd I think you get the idea. This whole Michigan won with lower rated guys thing is crap. Michigan won with all top 100 guys playing. Jordan Morgan is a great story, he also got 8 minutes in the championship game.
We have brought in one top 100 player in the last two years. In the two years before our run we brought in five. We have less talent now and the results will reflect that, despite how good of a coach beilein because better talent coached by the same guy performs better than worse talent coached by the same guy.
September 9th, 2015 at 11:25 AM ^
In basketball top 100 doesn't mean a ton, there's a huge difference normally between 75th and 15th. So we got some players ranked 60th and below to perform like top 10 guys and a couple top 30 guys to perform close to their rankings. Beilein was beating teams with 4 and 5 5 star players with the lineup you described. He helped turn Trey into the #1 player in the country, that's outstanding.
But yeah, I think we're seeing a little less talent coming in right now and it's disheartening. I think we got a couple 5 stars and had a couple really underrated guys who were developed well in Trey and Stauskus, those guys played like 5 stars. Now we're going to see what we can do with guys 75-150th.
September 9th, 2015 at 11:56 AM ^
September 9th, 2015 at 1:21 PM ^
Ignore basketball recruiting? Uh, no. The individual cases have significantly greater impact on a program than 99% of cases in football recruiting. Basketball is the only sport where following recruiting absolutely should be done. It's critical.
September 9th, 2015 at 10:23 AM ^
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September 9th, 2015 at 1:23 PM ^
Something tells me you don't really hate to bang that drum.
September 9th, 2015 at 10:15 AM ^
While annoyed (how does a UofD kid not jump at the chance to play for Michigan???), it looks like Sam Webb (and mods, please delete if this steps over the line of pay-site info) is hinting that all is fine and we'll know the PG recruit (commit?) soon. This might be a case of the spot having already been taken.
Cassius, you had your chance. Enjoy not playing pro basketball. On the plus side, you've had a good high school education, so hopefully you'll be able to purchase a nice, big tv to watch Michigan point guards in the NBA.